Hi everyone. I'm a new member to this forum and it's the first time I've owned a MR2 roadster.
I'm located in Norfolk, UK and I've managed to pick a fairly good example for £700.
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6648.jpg)
All well and good, and I've sorted out a few little jobs like sticking catch on engine bay, low idling problem etc.
I've got an engine light showing. Car has done 115 thousand miles. The precats are still in place from what I can tell. Car consumes hardly any oil (10w40).
My next job is to take the precats out, and the socket https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000MQ7XRA is on it's way as we speak.
I suspected the O2 sensors, being a common problem, so did the resistor fix (I'm sure you are all aware of it), using this type:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6525.jpg)
Ordered from RS components.
Thing is, engine light is still on. I'm guessing it's because the codes aren't cleared from memory on the engine management unit. Tried taking the battery off and leaving for 30 mins and reconnecting, but engine lights come back on after 5-10 miles when the car realises codes are still there I guess.
So, tried to order a couple of OBD2 readers. This one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005FOIC3I and all it did was give me a 'linking error', then I tried this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N2ISTNG, but again just get a linking error.
Doing a bit more reading, the first one says compatibility is '2002 and newer vehicles that support Mode 9'. The second reader says 'Working on most of 1996 and later OBDII agreeable US, European and Asian vehicles'. (So I assume mine isn't 'agreeable', lol).
Question is: What reader does work for a UK (european?) year 2000 MR2 roadster? I do have what looks like an OBD2 port: (http://tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6647.jpg)
Am I looking at silly money? Links appreciated. Many thanks.
Quote from: "tperry2x"Hi everyone. I'm a new member to this forum and it's the first time I've owned a MR2 roadster.
I'm located in Norfolk, UK and I've managed to pick a fairly good example for £700.
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6648.jpg)
All well and good, and I've sorted out a few little jobs like sticking catch on engine bay, low idling problem etc.
I've got an engine light showing. Car has done 115 thousand miles. The precats are still in place from what I can tell. Car consumes hardly any oil (10w40).
My next job is to take the precats out, and the socket https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000MQ7XRA is on it's way as we speak.
I suspected the O2 sensors, being a common problem, so did the resistor fix (I'm sure you are all aware of it), using this type:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6525.jpg)
Ordered from RS components.
Thing is, engine light is still on. I'm guessing it's because the codes aren't cleared from memory on the engine management unit. Tried taking the battery off and leaving for 30 mins and reconnecting, but engine lights come back on after 5-10 miles when the car realises codes are still there I guess.
So, tried to order a couple of OBD2 readers. This one:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005FOIC3I and all it did was give me a 'linking error', then I tried this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01N2ISTNG, but again just get a linking error.
Doing a bit more reading, the first one says compatibility is '2002 and newer vehicles that support Mode 9'. The second reader says 'Working on most of 1996 and later OBDII agreeable US, European and Asian vehicles'. (So I assume mine isn't 'agreeable', lol).
Question is: What reader does work for a UK (european?) year 2000 MR2 roadster? I do have what looks like an OBD2 port: (http://tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6647.jpg)
Am I looking at silly money? Links appreciated. Many thanks.
Any chance it's had a replacement ECU in it's life? The linking failure might point to an import ECU.
Trouble is without the reader you're not going to know if you've put the resistor on the right sensor, unless you've done all 3???
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Hi, yes I did all of them - might as well I thought while I'm at it. Don't think ECU has been changed, is there an easy way to tell by looking at it?
Quote from: "tperry2x"Hi, yes I did all of them - might as well I thought while I'm at it. Don't think ECU has been changed, is there an easy way to tell by looking at it?
ECU wise I'm afraid you'll have to wait for a more experienced member to say about, I know it's not unheard of but not sure how to tell them apart other than part numbers perhaps?
Also the resistor only overrides the heater circuit failure I'm sure so it could also be that one of the sensors has died altogether.
Assuming it's an O2 fault, obviously.
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Ok, that's a pain. Don't really care if the O2 sensors have failed as the car runs fine, just annoying having the engine light on. Had hoped the ECU only looks for a resistance across the sensor and would therefore be happy. (I'd rip them both out if I could fool the ECU) and leave the main one underneath as required for MOT.
I'll try and take a photo of the ECU later on and see if anyone knows. Many thanks.
From memory the heater circuit wires are the two the same colour (don't quote me, I could be wrong) and the heater only works until the exhaust gasses are hot enough to keep the O2 sensors at working temperature.
If they've failed it won't run fine for long, the mix will be all over the place.
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By the sounds of it, If your engine is running sweet, then it's a sensor prob!! Most likely the one to the right as you look into the engine bay!!
Hi there, welcome! I have a UK car and use a cheap ish £40 ish Bluetooth ELM 327 reader and Torque app on Android smartphone, works for me
The ones that are the same colour are the ones the resistors are attached to, so essentially the ECU always things the sensor is live. But if the sensor doesn't work or open, there's then no signal on those lines. Any way to fool the ECU on those lines I wonder?
Anyway, laying on my back in the driver's footwell, I can just photograph the ECU.
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6653.jpg)
Tried to make the numbers more readable:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6658.jpg)
It runs fine when on auto-choke and when it's up to temperature. I regularly drive 35 miles to work and back, through a bit of city traffic too, and it never falters or fluctuates when idling. It used to until I cleaned the MAF sensor with carb cleaner
Hi and Welcome.
Whereabouts in Norfolk are you located?
Near Aylsham, north of Norwich.
Numbers on the ECU are as follows (line by line)
89221-17040
232300-0191
Does it have an alarm and/or a blinking red light in the middle of the dash when locked?
Quote from: "tperry2x"Near Aylsham, north of Norwich.
I'm near Dereham and have a Bluetooth connector and App on my phone that works with my FL car if you ever venture this way.
Ok, there's no blinking red light when locked, so no immobiliser getting in the way.
Delhusband: had heard about the Bluetooth adapter but have heard they'll only work on a year 2001 and above car.
What year car do you have? If it's a 2000 and works fine with the reader, can you send me a link - I'd like to own one that works to reset at any time in the future.
Quote from: "tperry2x"Ok, there's no blinking red light when locked, so no immobiliser getting in the way.
Delhusband: had heard about the Bluetooth adapter but have heard they'll only work on a year 2001 and above car.
What year car do you have? If it's a 2000 and works fine with the reader, can you send me a link - I'd like to own one that works to reset at any time in the future.
Ah, OK, I'm '06 plate
Looking at those numbers they are different to my 2001 JDM Import, so I'm guessing not a JDM ECU replacement
Rutland have one for sale with the same numbers as yours so it looks like its probably a UK/EU unit
m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-MR2-Bo ... 1926385582 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toyota-MR2-Body-Control-ECU-89221-17040-/121926385582) m
Those ODB readers can be quite fickle
What OS are you running it on? I have found them to be most stable when using an old XP laptop
The readers were both standalone units with no computer requirement (all that was on the CD supplied was a pdf user manual). No setup program or application or executable.
You basically plugged one end into the obd2 port and hit 'scan', it went through a list of all the different protocols (can't remember the names now), but just failed to connect as if it wasn't receiving the response it was looking for.
(Said in Obi-wan voice "this isn't the ECU you're looking for", lol)
I'd stick a bit of tape over the engine light, but I do want to be able to plug something in to tell me what's wrong. Especially if anything else crops up in the future. What I'm really after is someone with an early 2000 model (the ones which suffer from oval-bore syndrome) *sigh, just my luck.
I think no immobilizer means Japanese grey import and so you'd need a JOBD reader. There are threads with info on what to buy for that. But best to confirm what it is first
I know it's not an imported car as log book and DVLA say never imported, or do you just mean the ECU? Did the early roadsters have an immobiliser? Again, I just don't know here. I had read that there were lots of improvements made on the facelift model; just wonder what is lacking on a standard 2000 model.
I'll read up on JOBD readers too, many thanks everyone.
Have received my 22mm oxygen sensor socket an hour ago, so will be attempting that tonight, in the dark on the driveway lol. Fun ways to spend a Friday night and all that.
Keeps me out of trouble though.
Quote from: "tperry2x"I know it's not an imported car as log book and DVLA say never imported, or do you just mean the ECU? Did the early roadsters have an immobiliser? Again, I just don't know here. I had read that there were lots of improvements made on the facelift model; just wonder what is lacking on a standard 2000 model.
I'll read up on JOBD readers too, many thanks everyone.
Have received my 22mm oxygen sensor socket an hour ago, so will be attempting that tonight, in the dark on the driveway lol. Fun ways to spend a Friday night and all that.
Soak them in plusgas and crack them in the daylight tomorrow would be my preference.
That'd be lovely if I wasn't working tomorrow and Sunday. They've been soaking in WD40, 3-in-1 oil and GTX35 while I do the childcare thing today.
The more I read about the precats, the more urgently I want them out. Ok, the car has done over 115 thousand miles with them in, but knowing my luck...
It's like hanging a basket made of eggshells, full of nails, above an open engine. Sounds like an absolutely terrible idea, but there's officially no problem as far as Toyota is concerned.
Quote from: "tperry2x"The more I read about the precats, the more urgently I want them out. Ok, the car has done over 115 thousand miles with them in, but knowing my luck...
It's like hanging a basket made of eggshells, full of nails, above an open engine. Sounds like an absolutely terrible idea, but there's officially no problem as far as Toyota is concerned.
104k on mine when I smashed them out and they were fully intact, car uses very little oil even when treated roughly and I'm sure I'm the 5th owner. It's all about the oil and filter changes.
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Ok, I feel a little better about mine. It's had good service history and oil filter is brand new so the seller's info about keeping on top of oil changes might ring true. According to the log book, I'm the 9th keeper. The colour of the oil is light golden, so very clean.
Quote from: "tperry2x"Ok, I feel a little better about mine. It's had good service history and oil filter is brand new so the seller's info about keeping on top of oil changes might ring true. According to the log book, I'm the 9th keeper. The colour of the oil is light golden, so very clean.
All sounds good then, one things for certain you've come to the right place for help and advice, even if some of it is dodgy [emoji23]
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Quote from: "tperry2x"Ok, I feel a little better about mine. It's had good service history and oil filter is brand new so the seller's info about keeping on top of oil changes might ring true. According to the log book, I'm the 9th keeper. The colour of the oil is light golden, so very clean.
All good signs but I understand your fear that engine detonation might be just around the corner while the ticking time bombs are still in situ.
Of course, with that many previous owners, someone may have already beaten you to removing them.
Quote from: "tperry2x"Numbers on the ECU are as follows (line by line)
89221-17040
232300-0191
They are UK numbers
I have a JOBD/OBD11 reader here in Norwich if you want the ECU read
Pete
Fingers crossed. Mrs has just come home with a takeaway, so might not do it tonight after all s:D :D s:D
Thanks Pete, sounds good. Much appreciated and I hope it's just a matter of clearing the codes since I did sensors and cleaned the MAF, but have to see.
Is the precast really an issue ? Thought it was a bit of a myth to a degree ? They only cause problems if your burning oil which means the rings no ?
From what I understand, the ceramic of the precat breaks down over time and can get sucked back into the engine. This wears the rings down, causing slack and allowing engine oil blow-by, so then you start to see signs of oil / blue smoke.
Catalytic converters don't like oil so this can then clog the precats further, resulting in faster degradation. A vicious circle.
Think I've got the gist of it there.
If you sometimes get the smell of eggs from the exhaust, can mean the catalyst material is breaking down and not absorbing harmful chemicals in the exhaust gases anymore (although think it can be down to also what fuel is used and air/fuel mixture ratio).
The only specs I can find about JOBD readers is that technically they are similar to OBD2, but additionally support the Japanese standard (hence the J), and are a standard OBD2 port shape connection with an identical number of pins.
Thanks for the kind offers of loaning me a reader, although I'd really love to have my own.
I've got this on order (should arrive today at some point)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07476GPYB/
It's the bit that says the JOBD format and 8 Japanese makes that makes me hopeful. If not, it'll go back for a full refund like the other two have done.
That's not quite as I understand the issue.
I believe the problem is generally considered to stem from the poor design of the oil control ring, which without regular oil changes is likely to get gummed up and stick in its groove.
This leads to oil consumption, the oil consumption issue is what leads to the break down of the pre cat issues.
So, if your engine doesn't burn any oil you're probably completely safe.
If your engine burns a bit of oil, it's best to remove the pre cats, and your engine should be good for many more miles.
Leaving the pre cats in an engine consuming oil will be likely to end in tears.
Someone may well be along and correct me, but that is my understanding of the issue.
Although I believe 'oval bore syndrome' is pretty much considered a myth nowadays!
Oh, ok. That's great to know and very reassuring- thank you. I'm of the school of thought that if they aren't fitted, they can't go wrong. Either way, they are definitely coming out as soon as I get the chance.
I'll update this post on the findings of the JOBD reader when it arrives if
A: it connects, B: finds anything, C: flags up codes
Fingers crossed.
Ok, so here's where I'm up to:
1. Greased all the nuts I thought I'd have to undo thoroughly
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6665.jpg)
2. Using the special O2 socket, the left-hand side one came undone no problem.
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6669.jpg)
3. The right-hand side one needed more persuasion!
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6670.jpg)
4. The O2 sensors probably shouldn't look like this:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6673.jpg)
5. Cleaned them up:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6678.jpg)
6. With the sensors out, can't see any precat at all. Think this means it's been done already by one of the previous 8 owners:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6677.jpg)
7. Now on to the JOBD reader:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6680.jpg)
8. Connects! Success. Only through JOBD mode, won't connect through OBD2 mode. Brings up 6 errors. The only 2 that are current are these two (The other 4 were historic):
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6683.jpg)
Error 1: (Current - P0135 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1)
Error 2: (Current - P0155 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit, Bank 2 Sensor 1)
Error 3: (Historic - P0000 ISO/SAE Reserved)
Error 4: (Historic - P0000 Fault code not found in database)
Error 5: (Historic - P0135 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit, Bank 1 Sensor 1)
Error 6: (Historic - P0155 Oxygen Sensor Heater Circuit, Bank 2 Sensor 1)
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6689.jpg)
So this seems to indicate my main cat sensor is ok, it's the left and right ones which have both failed.
8. JOBD reader won't allow me to clear the codes though, so it's not fully compatible s:evil: :evil: s:evil: :
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6688.jpg)
This is at least a lot further ahead than I was yesterday.
Thinking about seeing if the reader can be updated, but I haven't got a Windows PC (everyone I know is Mac), so will have to beg someone for the loan of their Windows PC.
Thanks for posting that schematic of O2 sensors - gave me double confirmation of the reason for a recent Issue I had with a p0171 error (I'd forgotten to plug O2 1/1 back in after doing what you're doing right now, checking if precats were there or not s:oops: :oops: s:oops: )
Can I ask what you cleaned O2 sensors with?
Delhusband: glad this rambling post has helped someone. I cleaned the sensors with a rag, nothing special. No solvent / petrol or anything for fear of messing them up.
(Too late I think).
Still looking for a JOBD reader for a UK, year 2000 car though. Don't want to have to take it to an expensive garage, but might give them a call and see if they are feeling generous, lol.
Is that the same reader that PeterWright has, maybe worth a visit and a chat with him anyway.
Would be worth a try before I go the expensive route.
When someone offers help on here jump in and grab it, you will probably learn 4 or 5 other interesting things as well s:D :D s:D
Disclaimer for the bolded part
This may end up either saving you money or costing you more by giving you the moditis bug s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Bit late to the party but welcome s:) :) s:)
Few things;
1) That red box is your ABS control module. Not the ecu. The ecu sits behind your passenger cubby hole.
2) you need your o2 sensors. All of them. O2 sensors have a (admittedly long) lifespan in which the function well. No code for the o2 does not mean they're all good. Heater circuit tricking is fine.
3)If you have the 3rd sensor (in your cat) then it's not a JDM car (Japanese import). So, I'm a bit confused about it needing to be read by a JOBD reader. So, bit lost on that one. Sure someone else can shed some light.
4) No visible pre-cats can be a good and a bad thing. In your case, as the oil is clear and car runs well, probably a good thing but they have been known to be fully collapsed and clogging up main cats.
5) ecu part numbers for that year should be 89661-17610 but it sounds like yours is 89661-17650. Again, very confusing. Can you try unplugging the o2 sensor in the cat (behind left rear light) and see if that throws any code? If not....ecu had been switched for a JDM one.
6) if you took the neg battery cable off for 30 mins, it should clear your ecu. Codes coming back as live codes are not the ecu pulling stuff out of memory. It'd the ecu saying it has found reasons to throw those codes s:) :) s:) so, the issues are still there.
Thanks shnazzle. Great information - I'll get back to you...
As Shnazzle said, if you have an O2 sensor at the main cat, it's not JDM and requires a European OBD (OBDII) reader. If no main cat sensor, OBDMATE make an inexpensive JOBD reader.
I'm always up for learning new things, I'm new to this car and there's always something to get my head around. Didn't mean to sound like I was shunning anyone's help, so sorry Pete and Treboeth - didn't mean to come across that way.
Shnazzle - gone through a few things you suggested.
1. Do you mean behind passenger seat, that cupboard as can't see anything ECU related there, neither behind or tucked under glove box. Feel like I'm not looking in the right place then, oops.
2. So what I've done with the heater circuits and resistors are ok?
3. The reader just fails to communicate on the OBD2 setting, but under JOBD, enters the scanning mode fine.
4. If the main cat was clogged, I'd assume a loss of power, but it pulls fine in all gears through the rev range.
5. Here's where it gets weird; unplugged the connector of sensor you mentioned, leading to the bottom post cat. Turned ignition on with reader attached and heard what can best be described as a high pitch squealing. Not like the buzzer when you've left your lights on. Much higher pitch. The reader won't connect at all or talk to the car with this sensor unplugged. Plugged it back in and all was just as it was before, but now I can erase codes without an error.
The reader said codes cleared, but engine light is still on. When I chose to read the codes again, they are still there, even the historic ones.
6. Left battery off for 30 mins. Put it back on and engine light is off. Drove to work this morning and about half way there, light comes back on. Plugged in the reader again and it's exactly the same, with the historic codes showing too.
So, I'm a bit stumped right now. Need to identify the ECU if I could find it. Would it be as simple as putting a more recent ECU in to make it more compatible?
The reader can do JOBD, OBD2 and 3 others (haven't got the packaging with me right now, so couldn't tell you). Says it should work with everything after 1996.
Quote from: "shnazzle"Bit late to the party but welcome s:) :) s:)
Few things;
1) That red box is your ABS control module. Not the ecu. The ecu sits behind your passenger cubby hole.
2) you need your o2 sensors. All of them. O2 sensors have a (admittedly long) lifespan in which the function well. No code for the o2 does not mean they're all good. Heater circuit tricking is fine.
3)If you have the 3rd sensor (in your cat) then it's not a JDM car (Japanese import). So, I'm a bit confused about it needing to be read by a JOBD reader. So, bit lost on that one. Sure someone else can shed some light.
4) No visible pre-cats can be a good and a bad thing. In your case, as the oil is clear and car runs well, probably a good thing but they have been known to be fully collapsed and clogging up main cats.
5) ecu part numbers for that year should be 89661-17610 but it sounds like yours is 89661-17650. Again, very confusing. Can you try unplugging the o2 sensor in the cat (behind left rear light) and see if that throws any code? If not....ecu had been switched for a JDM one.
6) if you took the neg battery cable off for 30 mins, it should clear your ecu. Codes coming back as live codes are not the ecu pulling stuff out of memory. It'd the ecu saying it has found reasons to throw those codes s:) :) s:) so, the issues are still there.
I was confused about the ECU location too, was 99% confident it was in the cubby but waiting for someone else more betterer to come along and say it!
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Quote from: "tperry2x"I'm always up for learning new things, I'm new to this car and there's always something to get my head around. Didn't mean to sound like I was shunning anyone's help, so sorry Pete and Treboeth - didn't mean to come across that way.
Shnazzle - gone through a few things you suggested.
1. Do you mean behind passenger seat, that cupboard as can't see anything ECU related there, neither behind or tucked under glove box. Feel like I'm not looking in the right place then, oops.
2. So what I've done with the heater circuits and resistors are ok?
3. The reader just fails to communicate on the OBD2 setting, but under JOBD, enters the scanning mode fine.
4. If the main cat was clogged, I'd assume a loss of power, but it pulls fine in all gears through the rev range.
5. Here's where it gets weird; unplugged the connector of sensor you mentioned, leading to the bottom post cat. Turned ignition on with reader attached and heard what can best be described as a high pitch squealing. Not like the buzzer when you've left your lights on. Much higher pitch. The reader won't connect at all or talk to the car with this sensor unplugged. Plugged it back in and all was just as it was before, but now I can erase codes without an error.
The reader said codes cleared, but engine light is still on. When I chose to read the codes again, they are still there, even the historic ones.
6. Left battery off for 30 mins. Put it back on and engine light is off. Drove to work this morning and about half way there, light comes back on. Plugged in the reader again and it's exactly the same, with the historic codes showing too.
So, I'm a bit stumped right now. Need to identify the ECU if I could find it. Would it be as simple as putting a more recent ECU in to make it more compatible?
The reader can do JOBD, OBD2 and 3 others (haven't got the packaging with me right now, so couldn't tell you). Says it should work with everything after 1996.
The "passenger cubby hole" is behind the passenger seat, take the end trim panel off and you should see the ECU wrapped in plastic. If you've got the user manual it should describe how to remove the end panels to carry long objects...
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Don't think you were shunning anybody's help s:) :) s:) This is how it goes. We are/were all new to the game and it's a learning experience all the time! Makes it fun s:) :) s:)
1. Yes in the cupboard. Well, behind it. So you have to remove the door (3 bolts), remove the two bolts that hold down the bottom of the cubby. Remove the right side plastica (two pull-clips). And then remove the bottom. Behind the material you'd then spot the silver ecu hidden behind a black security barrier, held on by two 5-point security torx screws.
A picture would be very handy.
2. Sounds like it's still getting an incorrect voltage from that heater circuit, as it's still throwing the p0155 and p0135. Easiest is of course to replace the sensors.
3. Really puzzling... I'm still standing by an ECU switch... Somehow.
4. It is unlikely, it was more an FYI. it seems more likely that your cats have been removed and all is good.
5. I don't even know where to go with that... That's.. Unusual... I'm definitely going to be doing some reading. Hell, I might Unplug mine and see what it does.
6. The clearing definitely works. It's just that the codes are still being found. So the resistor fix isn't working. Are you passing both sensors through the same resistor? If so, try one and see if one of the codes drops away.
This could do with a trip to the likes of headcase (Patrick Chambers) or our guru Steve at D1 Customs. Or Carolyn. Or a handful of others willing to help s:) :) s:)
This is strange. I have run a Europe spec engine and harness on a JDM (JOBD) ECU, with the main cat sensor disconnected. I'm told that a euro spec ECU won't be happy on a JDM harness, but I haven't tried that one.
The fact that your reader is happy with the ECU on JOBD, tells me the ECU should not even be looking for a main cat sensor, and, anyway, there is no connector for that sensor on a JDM harness. So you have a Euro spec harness. I wonder if you also have a Euro spec engine?
So... probably.. either your reader is not working properly or your ECU is playing up, or you've made a wiring error and it's confusing everything.
Take out all the plastics for the bin behind the passenger seat, the ECU is attached to the bulkhead by five point torx screws.
Question: Does your car have a built in (operated by a two button key) immobilser? If it does, it's Euro spec, if not it's JDM.
As suggested, time for a more expert eye in this one?
You definitely didn't come across as shunning any help offered s:D :D s:D
Ok, thanks everyone. I'll try getting to the ECU this evening. Too hot out there right now. Will update this post when I've got some pics.
Shnazzle, I'm using 3 separate resistors, 1 for each sensor.
Carolyn, I've got 2 buttons on the key fob. One is Lock and the other Unlock. There's no red light flashing for an immobiliser, although there is what looks like a panel and a LED, but it's either not working or disconnected? Not sure.
It does sound as though you have a JDM ECU in a euro car. That should be ok.... What O2 sensors do you have?
I have three as pictured in the schematic in my above post but I did notice that bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 2 sensor 1 look like different makes as the ends were different. I know there are official Toyota ones and other manufacturers (Denso?), but not bothered as long as they work. Not taken the 3rd bottom sensor out yet to see what that looks like.
Toyota originals are Denso. The cumulative experience is that Denso is the only way to go and other makes lack the reliability. Yes the Densos are more expensive, but (like Persil) 'they really work out cheaper'!
I do recall someone else having a problem with a JDM ECU in a Euro car -
This is all brilliant info, thank you.
Well, the award for the most hidden ECU goes to...
Perhaps, would've never known where to find that. Here's some photos. Is it a Euro ECU or Japanese one?
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6700.jpg)
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6701.jpg)
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6702.jpg)
The label isn't in Japanese. All the labels on my JDM car are. Curiouser and curiouser..
Did you take that screw out that holds the bracket to the bulkhead? If not, it's an indication that it's not the original ECU.
It might be that, with that information on the label, you can get it identified by Toyota?
Next time I have that bin out, I'll look at the label on mine.
Yes, I did take the screws out of the bracket, just to have a look at the numbers properly
Yup that's definitely a jdm ecu part number.
So someone has put an MR-S ecu in your car.
Also, judging by the rust on the bolt hole for the security plate... There was no security plate.
Further confirming that the ecu has been changed for a jdm one.
There has to be some dodgy wiring for that 3rd o2 sensor then
Quote from: "shnazzle"Yup that's definitely a jdm ecu part number.
There has to be some dodgy wiring for that 3rd o2 sensor then
Not if the engine has a Euro loom. It's just that the ECU won't see the third sensor.
So an ECU with a set of locks and keys from your favourite breaker.
If you do swap your ECU, I'd be interested in your old one as a spare.....
Just to be absolutely sure about your car, which side of the column is your indicator stalk on?
But why would the car freak out if the 3rd o2 sensor was disconnected?
That's what puzzles me about this
There's not a lot of difference between sensor disconnected and 0v reading is there? I wonder if something else coincidentally caused the noise.
Dean at Rutland MR2 told me that JDM ECUs are not happy on Euro cars... don't know why not. I know a JDM ecu will run a Euro engine and loom in a JDM car, but there is something dark and murky about putting the ECU in a Euro car. Could be very slight wiring and voltage differences....
So I think the long/short of it is that you'd be best off getting yourself a replacement UK spec ECU and set of adjoining keys. This means you'll probably regain the immobilizer you've lost (and probably your insurance thinks you have), and you'll be able to use a normal OBD2 reader s:D :D s:D
Also, the 3rd o2 sensor will do it's job. Which is a good and a bad thing depending on what side of the tree-hugger line you're on s:) :) s:)
That's my take. Just make sure you get the transponder loop with the set and you should be fine.
actually, the loop will probably be there... just check.
You'd be welcome to my old ECU once I know my replacement one is working fine of course s:D :D s:D
So, this will sound like a really obvious question to a lot of people. Can't I just plug a new box in – I need new keys, as in car ignition keys? Are they coded to the ECU? What is a transponder loop? Dumb questions, no doubt.
The loop is a wire that goes around your ignition barrel and enables the ECU to read the key,.
Yes a new ECU will plug in.
Yes the keys are coded to the ECU.
I know Rutland MR2 will sell an ECU with keys and locks as a kit. Bit of a faff, but all very do-able.
Not one dumb question.
I'll be happy to pay for the ECU. If you have a JDM car, it's got value.
Hmmm, but if I'm changing keys, I'll have to change all other locks too. Both door locks. A real faff.
The car is running fine with whatever ECU that is, just the lights I'm trying to extinguish. Didn't really want to pull apart the whole car to be honest and it's sounding more and more complicated.
I'll have a think, but think I've got a solution. It's a 2 seconds timer, wired to the engine light bulb in the back of the instrument cluster. (turns off engine light after 2 seconds).
MOT tester is happy, I'm happy because it's an easier fix and all the time the car is running ok, then jobs-a-good-un!
Not ideal, I'll grant you, but a lot easier than changing everything else.
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/timer-idea.jpg)
It's not as hard as you think. You take the "guts" from the key of the new ecu and put it in the fob of your existing key. So it opens your doors and unlocks the immobiliser and doors... And starts the car obviously..
Been done many times
The idea is to resolve problems, not work around them.
And if you have a buyer already for your ecu, you're in for a winner s:) :) s:) Basically free fix!
Shnazzle is correct. I mislead you with that response. You only need the locks if you've lost your key.... My apologies.
Ok, I'll have a think and do some more research. Thanks for everyone's help so far.
The other solution would be the Apexi PFC.... plug and play solution and you get to tinker with stuff s:) :) s:)
Haha. Let's not go there E2V!
The cheapest I can find a replacement ECU kit is around £60. Or, can raid all the bits of another roadster off eBay for £45, plus postage or going to pick it up comes close to £60 again.
I read up on the Apexi PFC, it's got a ton of possibilities but at over £450 (used) it's out of my price range. It's definitely overkill for what I need, Plus my hex editing on a computer is a bit rusty.
The wiring diagram I proposed above uses 4 wires and a modified bulb. I know it's a workaround and not a 'proper fix', but I'm old skool and stubborn.
Don't care what the ECU particularly thinks, as long as the car is running and not about to eat it's engine. It can be throwing all the advisory codes it wants, I can still always read them if I want, so that side is still there.
It's just there's no glaring orange engine light on the dashboard to annoy me constantly. Worked out that if I just modify the wires on the bulb itself, it means no changes need to be made to the back of the instrument cluster board, so it's an un-doable fix if I change my mind.
The timer relay costs £2.85. It also has the benefit of no more light staying on ever again if another fault invariably appears.
(The whole thing seems needlessly complicated to be honest. I'm used to working on 1990's stuff and much older), so at least this way the light comes on and mimics what you should see before it goes out. The timer relay board is quite small - less than the height of a 50 pence piece. I can store it behind the dash, and nobody need know it's there. It's a lot less work to install and as far as I can see, means the light won't bother me again as I've had enough of it by this stage.
Again, I don't recommend anyone take my lead, but I've just had enough of what I see as an annoying system and this is a permanent fix until I decide to take it out.
Quote from: "tperry2x"The cheapest I can find a replacement ECU kit is around £60. Or, can raid all the bits of another roadster off eBay for £45, plus postage or going to pick it up comes close to £60 again.
I read up on the Apexi PFC, it's got a ton of possibilities but at over £450 (used) it's out of my price range. It's definitely overkill for what I need, Plus my hex editing on a computer is a bit rusty.
The wiring diagram I proposed above uses 4 wires and a modified bulb. I know it's a workaround and not a 'proper fix', but I'm old skool and stubborn.
Don't care what the ECU particularly thinks, as long as the car is running and not about to eat it's engine. It can be throwing all the advisory codes it wants, I can still always read them if I want, so that side is still there.
It's just there's no glaring orange engine light on the dashboard to annoy me constantly. Worked out that if I just modify the wires on the bulb itself, it means no changes need to be made to the back of the instrument cluster board, so it's an un-doable fix if I change my mind.
The timer relay costs £2.85. It also has the benefit of no more light staying on ever again if another fault invariably appears.
(The whole thing seems needlessly complicated to be honest. I'm used to working on 1990's stuff and much older), so at least this way the light comes on and mimics what you should see before it goes out. The timer relay board is quite small - less than the height of a 50 pence piece. I can store it behind the dash, and nobody need know it's there. It's a lot less work to install and as far as I can see, means the light won't bother me again as I've had enough of it by this stage.
Again, I don't recommend anyone take my lead, but I've just had enough of what I see as an annoying system and this is a permanent fix until I decide to take it out.
You could always just take the bulb out and periodically check for codes, as long as you replace it if you should sell it. It wouldn't be the first time someone has sold a car with the bulb out or in al least one case, covered with blu tack...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Does that not mean you have no immobiliser though?
Probably, lol. I've not tried to hot wire the car, but I'm pretty sure someone's already messed with the wiring to such an extent that a lot of things are bypassed. All the buttons work in there, but the deeper I look, the more spliced in wires I find, so I'm starting to see why the car was cheap. Hence I've got nothing to lose particularly in some hidden wiring myself.
Not having an immobiliser on one of these cars wouldn't lose me any sleep.
I've been on here a few years and read quite a few threads of people's engines catastrophically dying, the vast majority of which were as a result of running the oil low. Can't think of any where the EML came on to warn them. They usually mention the oil low pressure light coming on, after the damage has been done of course.
£2.85 sounds like an ideal solution, you can always advise any prospective buyer and read any codes to show them there's nothing untoward going on.
Slight thread hijack.
Would that timer relay work on the frickin annoying reverse beeper?
I have currently silenced it with wire snippers. But letting it sound for 2 seconds would be preferential.
Smarty2072, I guess so. It's just a timed relay after all. No reason it can't be used for a buzzer as all it's doing is working like a timed not-gate on the circuit. You have a reversing buzzer?
Amazon link for the one I found is here. Cheaper now, which is typical s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N3LQXTO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_RtaPzbQZ3B5VC
Quote from: "tperry2x"Smarty2072, I guess so. It's just a timed relay after all. No reason it can't be used for a buzzer as all it's doing is working like a timed not-gate on the circuit. You have a reversing buzzer?
Amazon link for the one I found is here. Cheaper now, which is typical s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N3LQXTO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_RtaPzbQZ3B5VC
Yes, must be a FL thing, or someone has disconnected yours. It beeps relentlessly while it's in reverse and serves no purpose other than to distract you. It's loud and annoying, a two second beep just to let you know you've selected reverse would be handy I suppose.
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
Quote from: "smarty2072"Quote from: "tperry2x"Smarty2072, I guess so. It's just a timed relay after all. No reason it can't be used for a buzzer as all it's doing is working like a timed not-gate on the circuit. You have a reversing buzzer?
Amazon link for the one I found is here. Cheaper now, which is typical s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B01N3LQXTO/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_RtaPzbQZ3B5VC
Yes, must be a FL thing, or someone has disconnected yours. It beeps relentlessly while it's in reverse and serves no purpose other than to distract you. It's loud and annoying, a two second beep just to let you know you've selected reverse would be handy I suppose.
Thanks for the link, I'll check it out.
It's a Facelift thing, thankfully... I think it's relevant to the 6 speed box and the position of 1st and reverse.
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I've not done anything on the car for a while, just been using it day-to-day while I wait for the little timer relay to arrive. It arrived yesterday, so here's my wiring diagram:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6815.gif)
Essentially, you set the timer delay with a flat screwdriver (I turned it so it clicks off after 1 second).
When you connect the power (the ignition switch), the bulb comes on... waits a second, then goes off.
That's exactly what I wanted.
Next step was to take the dashboard out, and the back cover off
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6767.jpg)
Then find a small enough 12v bulb
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6771.jpg)
(Just testing it before I connect it all back up)
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6773.jpg)
Put the circuit board back on:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6774.jpg)
Then the plastic cover back on:
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6775.jpg)
Testing (no more engine light after 1 second) - Comes on for 1 second when you turn ignition on. Job done (while the car is running fine, at any rate).
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6777.jpg)
(Be careful of these little tags when putting the facia back on)
(http://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/mr2roadster/images/IMG_6778.jpg)
Took the car to a friendly MOT technician and we hooked the emissions test equipment up just to check readings. He said they are all over the place when cold, (to be expected with the O2 sensors not working), but once engine up to temperature the diagnostic shows all emissions within MOT tolerances.
That's good enough for me. This isn't the normal way to deal with the problem, but I can still plug in the diagnostic reader if I'm concerned about how it's running, just will never see that engine light on the dash to annoy me.