Hi all,
I am still taking my spare engine apart, I looked up what I needed to remove the OEM head bolts and it said a 10mm bi-hex (not 12 point) so I bought a set of those but it seems that I need something else as the sockets don't work - seems to be an internal drive rather than an external socket?
Can someone let me know what tool I need to remove the head bolts.
Thanks in advance!
It's a male tool. 12 point. Looks like a torx key but 12 point.
10 mm bi hex is the correct description. However, it's a Number 12 bit!!
Readily available.
Quote from: "Carolyn"It's a male tool. 12 point. Looks like a torx key but 12 point.
10 mm bi hex is the correct description. However, it's a Number 12 bit!!
Readily available.
Thanks for that, looks like its only female sockets on ebay - will check amazon unless I can find a local tool place, I found that a T55 fits in the bolt but not tightly so not going to risk trying to remove with that! I think the tool will be a 1 time use for me as I will be upgrading to ARP head studs next.
I got mine in a little box set from my local parts store.
Found this...
m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-SPLINE-KE ... SwaA5WlfqN (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-SPLINE-KEY-SET-SOCKET-BIT-12-POINT-M10-M12-M14-M16H-M18-tamperproof-gearbox-/182638411561?epid=1482210543&hash=item2a8618ff29:g:YzkAAOSwaA5WlfqN) m
Quote from: "Carolyn"I got mine in a little box set from my local parts store.
Found this...
m http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-SPLINE-KE ... SwaA5WlfqN (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-2-SPLINE-KEY-SET-SOCKET-BIT-12-POINT-M10-M12-M14-M16H-M18-tamperproof-gearbox-/182638411561?epid=1482210543&hash=item2a8618ff29:g:YzkAAOSwaA5WlfqN) m
Thanks for that, I think I was coming up blank as I was searching for 'double hex' rather than a 'spline key set' - will check to see is they are 100% ok as a double hex isn't the same as a 12 point (angles are different). The spline drive seems to be 60 degrees but I think the double hex is slightly different - however I do see that it is noted that spine drives are mainly used on cylinder head bolts - just hope I have a long enough breaker bar!
You can see the difference in the below diagram although it might work fine.
(http://www.americanbuilderscentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/screws.jpg)
I haven't used this set. The one I got locally has removed and replaced several heads no problems. Comes in a little tin box with five bits and one bit holder in 3/8 drive. So I have to use an adapter for my breaker bar. Just seems a 1/2 drive might be better.
I believe I have the correct tool now, I can't seem to get enough torque on the bolt though - what sized breaker bar do you think I should need to get enough torque on the things - typically I won't need these tools again moving forward.
Breaker bars are always handy! I manage head jobs with an 18" bar. I really have to put some 'heave' into it.
Quote from: "Carolyn"Breaker bars are always handy! I manage head jobs with an 18" bar. I really have to put some 'heave' into it.
Hmmm might take this opportunity to upgrade my breaker bar perhaps, can't remember how big my current breaker bar is!
Quote from: "m1tch"Quote from: "Carolyn"Breaker bars are always handy! I manage head jobs with an 18" bar. I really have to put some 'heave' into it.
Hmmm might take this opportunity to upgrade my breaker bar perhaps, can't remember how big my current breaker bar is!
Breaker bars can be extended with a length of sturdy metal pipe
Quote from: "Essex2Visuvesi"Quote from: "m1tch"Quote from: "Carolyn"Breaker bars are always handy! I manage head jobs with an 18" bar. I really have to put some 'heave' into it.
Hmmm might take this opportunity to upgrade my breaker bar perhaps, can't remember how big my current breaker bar is!
Breaker bars can be extended with a length of sturdy metal pipe
Will see if there is a bar handy laying around - I do have am impact wrench so I might try that but was wanting to untorque everything evenly.
I think I am going to buy a metre long breaker bar which should have enough torque, worryingly looking at the specs the cylinder head bolt torque doesn't seem to be that high?
A metre long bar is overdoing it a bit. It's the 'plus 90 degrees' that requires the torque, in both directions....
Quote from: "Carolyn"A metre long bar is overdoing it a bit. It's the 'plus 90 degrees' that requires the torque, in both directions....
I figure I would just go with the metre size - I can always hold it half way - I guess this is the first time I have come across stretch bolts, just need to get over the initial higher torque, it would seem that this engine has never been apart.
Why would you want to hold it half way?
Quote from: "jonbill"Why would you want to hold it half way?
It would depend on the attachment, the double hex socket seems to be a 3/8" size whereas the breaker bar is a 1/2" - was thinking that it could be possible for me to apply too much torque to the smaller socket and break that - holding the breaker bar part way means that I am limiting the amount of max torque I can exert on the socket etc.
I wouldn't think you need to worry about that - I'm sure it's impossible to apply more force than required when undoing a bolt. You can only supply just the right amount or not enough, so either your socket is strong enough to undo the bolt or it's gonna break and you need a better one. Not much point in not undoing the bolt to protect the tool!
Also, the longer the lever you use, the more control you have - less chance of it rounding the bolt or you bashing your knuckles - I'd always use the full length of a breaker bar.
With a one metre bar, something's going to give. Good luck!
When I mentioned 'over doing it', I was thinking about the future usefulness of the tool. There are quite a few jobs on the Roadster where a good breaker bar is very handy. However a one metre bar would be quite unwieldy in more cramped conditions. A big strong feller should be just fine with two feet or less... (Ok, Carolyn, wait for the jokes..).
Also, 1 metre bars tend to come in 3/4" or 1" drive, which then requires another adapter.
At one time I had a 1956 Beetle that had a large castellated nut securing the rear brake hub assembly.
Undoing it was difficult enough but retightening to the same groove I found to be impossible and succeeded only in lifting the car off the ground with a length of scaffold pole used to supplement the bar I had. In that case as tight as I could get it was enough for me.
Quote from: "Joesson"At one time I had a 1956 Beetle that had a large castellated nut securing the rear brake hub assembly.
Undoing it was difficult enough but retightening to the same groove I found to be impossible and succeeded only in lifting the car off the ground with a length of scaffold pole used to supplement the bar I had. In that case as tight as I could get it was enough for me.
250 ft lbs. Definitely a scaffold pole job!
Just want to get this cylinder head off!
Sorry. Of course you do.
Get your engine well secured on a stand. Using your double hex tool and a 2' breaker bar and bracing with your foot on the stand, heave-ho! It will come off. Engine stands can be had for £35 including delivery. Makes the whole rebuilding job so much more pleasant. Please ignore if you already have a stand.
Just get stuck in. You'll be fine.
Quote from: "Carolyn"Sorry. Of course you do.
Get your engine well secured on a stand. Using your double hex tool and a 2' breaker bar and bracing with your foot on the stand, heave-ho! It will come off. Engine stands can be had for £35 including delivery. Makes the whole rebuilding job so much more pleasant. Please ignore if you already have a stand.
Just get stuck in. You'll be fine.
Sorry that last post seemed a bit blunt, I have an engine stand but need to get the front pulley off as well so need to reattach the flywheel to then lock that to remove the front bolt and then remove it to fit it onto the engine stand.
Its just a bit frustrating due to the cost of the tools and sockets to remove a part I will never need to replace but I will get there.
If you take the pan off (you probably already have), you can slip a piece of wood between the crank and the block locking it in one direction. Then you can get the pulley off with no risk of damage.
Quote from: "Carolyn"If you take the pan off (you probably already have), you can slip a piece of wood between the crank and the block locking it in one direction. Then you can get the pulley off with no risk of damage.
Good point - pan is still on at the moment as the engine is sitting on the floor, I have removed basically all pipes and ancillaries, will perhaps get it on the engine stand tonight and use a bit of wood to jam the crank - not thought of doing that.
Right, I have not got the head bolts out, had to use the full 1 metre breaker bar and to much torque I snapped one of the extension bars clean across but the bolts are out - will take the head off in a bit.
Wow. That engine must have really overheated.
Quote from: "Carolyn"Wow. That engine must have really overheated.
I will check with the member I got it off, I think they said it was their daily but might have done a few track days with it - coupled with the fact that they had got the engine off someone else.
Will take the head off at some point, need to get the front cover off first it seems - will also check the head hasn't warped or something but I managed to unbolt things in the opposite order they went on so any warping would be from the engine running rather than me messing something up.