MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Workshop => Maintenance, Problems & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: jhothersall on April 4, 2018, 16:30

Title: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 4, 2018, 16:30
This week my gearbox went, I notice a funny noise at the back left hand side and on Easter Monday the rear wheels are locked up on a busy roundabout in Clitheroe.

It had to be put on a low loader and the AA got it delivered to the garage.

They are a stuck what to do... I can get a reconditioned gearbox for £200 but it could be more than the gearbox at fault.

The car has 134k on it and a new sump last month and hand brake and calipers and o2 sensors since I got it.

I've been a member of this forum, since I got it in Nov 2012. Been to meets and even Nic Foxton helped me when I got it as one of the sensors has failed

I don't want to scrap/break it, but im really stuck what to do. It is CAT D, and the rear bumper was replaced by D1ck Sloan in June 2016. Can anyone offer me advice, I live in East Lancs.

Thanks in Advance

James
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: K T M Rider on April 4, 2018, 17:07
Hard to say what to do from sitting behind a keyboard and only you can know what the car is worth to you.

If the gearbox is out then budgeting for a clutch replacement would probably make sense unless it has already had one during your ownership.

If it were mine, then I would start ripping it apart on my drive and then come back on here for help if/when I hit a snag, but then I have flat off road space for several cars, a garage full of tools and I'm always looking for an excuse to buy even more tools.

If that isn't a realistic option for you then obviously your chosen garage's labour rates / general competence (and even their general attitude) become a major factor.......

What's the subframe like ? Does it use any oil ? 
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: 1979scotte on April 4, 2018, 17:15
As above difficult to say don't know your personal circumstances.

Mine isn't my daily driver.
Just a fun weekend car on which I spend far more than is sensible.
I would put in a new clutch and box because I would only want another one anyway.
Definitely a good time to give it a thorough once over and see if there are any more problems on the horizon.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: ptennisnet on April 4, 2018, 17:17
I had a second hand box and clutch fitted mid last year and it's been OK since.  I think I drove around with binding rear brakes for a while, which put extra load on the box.  By all accounts, the gearboxes aren't strong on these cars.  I factored in the depreciation I'd suffer on a newer car and figured the cost and risk of a second hand box was worth taking (15K a year on country lanes means depreciation is a killer for me) as my sub-frame and engine are OK.

Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: Ardent on April 4, 2018, 17:41
Gearboxes not strong on these cars.

not seen much evidence on here to suggest that.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: K T M Rider on April 4, 2018, 17:43
As you are In East Lancs, then you are probably not that far from @spit (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=823)  whose mechanical knowledge of these cars is the stuff of ROC legend

  :notworthy:

Might be worth sending him a PM
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: 1979scotte on April 4, 2018, 17:47
Quote from: Ardent on April  4, 2018, 17:41
Gearboxes not strong on these cars.

not seen much evidence on here to suggest that.

Don't think we have a high failure rate.
Even the turbo ones hold up with a stronger clutch.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: Carolyn on April 4, 2018, 18:37
I'd even say very low failure rate. I wonder how many cars have EVER had the gearbox oil changed?  Easy to overlook.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: m1tch on April 4, 2018, 18:46
Mine is on 175k miles, still fine, my suggestion would be to get a recon box, swap out the clutch whilst its out and then enjoy the car over the summer :)
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 4, 2018, 19:42
It does burn oil 1 litre every 1000 miles,but only just had a new sump on it as I noticed marks on the drive. But it has burnt it since I got it. Tried thinker oil ect. Just been to the car, its won't move even rocking it and tried all gears and reverse it is stuck. I can't take it apart really I have a drive but in my lease I cant do car maintenance .. Thanks MSV Housing ...

My plan is to get it to another garage so they look and see if it is the gearbox or drivetrain or whatever it is... It don't make much noise so might not be the gearbox.

Quote from: K T M Rider on April  4, 2018, 17:07
Hard to say what to do from sitting behind a keyboard and only you can know what the car is worth to you.

If the gearbox is out then budgeting for a clutch replacement would probably make sense unless it has already had one during your ownership.

If it were mine, then I would start ripping it apart on my drive and then come back on here for help if/when I hit a snag, but then I have flat off road space for several cars, a garage full of tools and I'm always looking for an excuse to buy even more tools.

If that isn't a realistic option for you then obviously your chosen garage's labour rates / general competence (and even their general attitude) become a major factor.......

What's the subframe like ? Does it use any oil ?
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 4, 2018, 19:46
It is my daily drivers and the does have a good "member" according to Dick ... 
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on April 4, 2018, 20:21
As long as the engine runs with the clutch out, it has to be the gearbox. The final drive & diff is integral with it, so they would be swapped out at the same time in the normal course of things.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: spit on April 4, 2018, 20:30
Seems I've been tagged  :) That's new!

Quote from: K T M Rider on April  4, 2018, 17:43
As you are In East Lancs, then you are probably not that far from @spit (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=823)  whose mechanical knowledge of these cars is the stuff of ROC legend

  :notworthy:

Might be worth sending him a PM

More of a leg-end than a legend methinks.

James - I've responded to your PM.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 4, 2018, 20:53
Thank you Ste, I have replied but send it off tapatalk, hopefully you got it ...
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: spit on April 4, 2018, 21:17
Quote from: jhothersall on April  4, 2018, 20:53
Thank you Ste, I have replied but send it off tapatalk, hopefully you got it ...

Yep, got it.

Please please please don't take that ridiculous offer from our habitual breaker friend. Hell, the Club would have a whip-round and buy it from you for that just to prevent him from taking the p  ;D

:protest: /end rant
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: shnazzle on April 4, 2018, 21:47
I don't know what the offer was, but unless it was over 1.5k, walk away. What I mean to say is that if you fix it, and still want to sell it after that, it's worth about that much.

We spent 450 on a new yaw rate sensor for a previous car in order for us to be able to sell it. It was either 500 quid or so as a MOT-failing problem or 4k as a lovely driving car.

Sometimes you gotta spend money to make money :)

But the top recommendation is to fix and drive! Haha

I've seen at least 2 gearbox come by here and Facebook in the past 2 months. One of them went for free I believe
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: StuC on April 4, 2018, 21:48
Quote from: jhothersall on April  4, 2018, 19:42My plan is to get it to another garage so they look and see if it is the gearbox or drivetrain or whatever it is... It don't make much noise so might not be the gearbox.
Sounds like an enthusiastic "on the drive" fix isn't an option.

If you are at the point of another garage though... get it over to Steve@D1Customs (affiliate on here). He will diagnose it right first time. Then give you options where possible.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: m1tch on April 5, 2018, 07:39
Might be worth getting a lower mileage engine and gearbox from a breaker together then - remove the current setup and replace with the complete unit. Also worth knowing that the stock LSD in our gearboxes are sought after as not all C series boxes came with them - meaning you could recoup some cash plus have an engine to rebuild/sell parts off such as the head etc.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 5, 2018, 08:56
Thank you for all the advice, the only problem is this is my daily driver.

I will be getting the school on the school bus till its fixed :-(

Going to try and blag the AA to move the car to other garage today to see what is wrong as they parked it on yellow school lines.

Thanks

James
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 5, 2018, 09:00
I do appreciate all your advice, I will keep you all up to date on what the grage says is up once I get it diagnosed.

Thanks

James
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 5, 2018, 13:50
Quote from: jhothersall on April  5, 2018, 09:00
I do appreciate all your advice, I will keep you all up to date on what the grage says is up once I get it diagnosed.

Thanks

James


Finally after almost 2 hours of being on hold, I've got the AA to move the car to another garage free of charge. Going into a gearbox specialist ... I will feed back with there take on the problems.

Thanks again everyone :-) James


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: Ardent on April 5, 2018, 17:20
Please name the specialist. Had a member go to "specialist" before. Dont think that went well.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 5, 2018, 17:45
Finally got it to a gearbox garage they are going to diagnose the problem(s)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180405/58514a5da855d61e81b41ab2ed2a04cb.jpg)

Won't be Monday / Tuesday till they have a look I'll report back.




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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: Ardent on April 5, 2018, 22:33
Quote from: jhothersall on April  4, 2018, 19:42
It does burn oil 1 litre every 1000 miles
Well with in spec then.
Spec is 1L per 1000KM (621miles)
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: Nunfa1 on April 7, 2018, 12:49
Replacement gearbox and clutch and it will be fine. Happened to me a couple of months ago, certainly gets the blood pumping doesn't it. :)
Ask the garage how much for a clutch replacement, that is basically the job, then just give them a different gearbox to fit. A LUK or Exeddy clutch should be available for around £75.
Mine is running better than ever now, quieter and more economical, all told job cost around £500.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 7, 2018, 13:50
Quote from: Nunfa1 on April  7, 2018, 12:49
Replacement gearbox and clutch and it will be fine. Happened to me a couple of months ago, certainly gets the blood pumping doesn't it. :)
Ask the garage how much for a clutch replacement, that is basically the job, then just give them a different gearbox to fit. A LUK or Exeddy clutch should be available for around £75.
Mine is running better than ever now, quieter and more economical, all told job cost around £500.
Thank you I Will ask :-)


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 9, 2018, 15:19
Garage called it's is the gearbox 4 1/2 hours work tops and a new Clutch is £80. He mentioned £237 I think that's just labour but if it's less he will take it off. Can anyone help with a gearbox and should I go for a 6 speed ? Ideally about £200 for the gearbox, what are people's thoughts?


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: shnazzle on April 9, 2018, 15:34
Quote from: jhothersall on April  9, 2018, 15:19
Garage called it's is the gearbox 4 1/2 hours work tops and a new Clutch is £80. He mentioned £237 I think that's just labour but if it's less he will take it off. Can anyone help with a gearbox and should I go for a 6 speed ? Ideally about £200 for the gearbox, what are people's thoughts?


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Very possible. If you're happy with a 5 speed I think I saw Dick Sloan had one on Facebook. 5spd with LSD.

If not, try either Dick or Dean in the breakers section in the Marketplace
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 9, 2018, 15:51
Spoken to D ick and he don't have one. £200 for a 5 speed on Facebook group..


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: Nunfa1 on April 9, 2018, 16:59
4.5 hours is what my mechanic quoted.
6 speed will be more work as the shifter will also need replacing.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 9, 2018, 17:07
Ah not to worry, I've been quoted on Facebook enthusiasts group £200 with LSD. What do you all think? Good ?


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: shnazzle on April 9, 2018, 17:11
Quote from: jhothersall on April  9, 2018, 17:07
Ah not to worry, I've been quoted on Facebook enthusiasts group £200 with LSD. What do you all think? Good ?


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Good price
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: 8thumpers on April 10, 2018, 08:39
I've got a 5 lsd speed box and engine - happy to split if you want it. £150 to you.
I'm in N. Shropshire
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180410/389ed6a8bb0e8112d22aaae099ee3c6e.jpg)
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 10, 2018, 09:19
Quote from: 8thumpers on April 10, 2018, 08:39
I've got a 5 lsd speed box and engine - happy to split if you want it. £150 to you.
I'm in N. Shropshire
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180410/389ed6a8bb0e8112d22aaae099ee3c6e.jpg)

That's good, how many miles has it done and getting it, is the problem. I have been offered one from a 01 at £200 done 90ish...


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: 8thumpers on April 10, 2018, 09:22
Quote from: jhothersall on April 10, 2018, 09:19
Quote from: 8thumpers on April 10, 2018, 08:39
I've got a 5 lsd speed box and engine - happy to split if you want it. £150 to you.
I'm in N. Shropshire
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180410/389ed6a8bb0e8112d22aaae099ee3c6e.jpg)

That's good, how many miles has it done and getting it, is the problem. I have been offered one from a 01 at £200 done 90ish...


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It's got 82k I think - 2000my
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 10, 2018, 10:41
That's good but it's getting it tbh. This one is in Lancaster.


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: 8thumpers on April 10, 2018, 10:54
Quote from: jhothersall on April 10, 2018, 10:41
That's good but it's getting it tbh. This one is in Lancaster.


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No worries  - hope you get it back on the road soon [emoji106]
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: Nunfa1 on April 10, 2018, 11:17
Pallet delivery is around £45. Speak to your garage, you should be able to get sent directly to them, hopefully.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: Beachbum957 on April 10, 2018, 11:36
Quote from: Nunfa1 on April  9, 2018, 16:59
4.5 hours is what my mechanic quoted.
6 speed will be more work as the shifter will also need replacing.
The 5-speed shifter works on a 6 speed.  In some cases, reverse may be hard to get, but placing 2 washers under the bell crank bracket solves that problem.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: tomaky on April 10, 2018, 20:45
I do have a 40k 6 speed I could sell best I could do is 200+ postage so looking nearer 250

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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: 1979scotte on April 10, 2018, 20:48
Quote from: tomaky on April 10, 2018, 20:45
I do have a 40k 6 speed I could sell best I could do is 200+ postage so looking nearer 250

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Genuine miles.
Car had very little use.
I will vouch for it.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: tomaky on April 10, 2018, 20:56
Quote from: 1979scotte on April 10, 2018, 20:48
Quote from: tomaky on April 10, 2018, 20:45
I do have a 40k 6 speed I could sell best I could do is 200+ postage so looking nearer 250

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Genuine miles.
Car had very little use.
I will vouch for it.
It's a steal realistically I'd be chopping at leatst off the price. Last 5 speed I sold was 290 with postage.

Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 10, 2018, 21:50
Right okay, that sounds good but is there a guide as the garage might not know how to do it ?


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: tomaky on April 11, 2018, 06:47
If they don't know. I wouldn't have them fit it. Comes with the 6 speed gear cage.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 17, 2018, 16:43
I ended up getting a gearbox on Friday night. Was £200 for a 5 speed with 90k on it. I just need one ASAP.. but thank you Otto for the offers.

The clutch is shot at. The garage think the lack of gearbox oil change is at fault. I have the old gear box out it does turn but stiffly... is the useful for anyone? If not it will be sent to scrap.

Thanks for all your help. I should have it back on the road soon :-) James


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on April 17, 2018, 19:24
I'd be interested in taking a gearbox apart - whereabouts in the country are you?
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 17, 2018, 19:25
Gisburn near Clitheroe but the garage is in Barnoldswick the garage were/are what to know what happened I suspect no gearbox oil change is the reason ...


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on April 17, 2018, 19:39
Thanks - thats about 30 miles from me, so possible one evening. Would it need to be collected from the garage during the working day?
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 18, 2018, 16:31
8 - 5 the garage is open you can have it they say.

Do you want?


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Title: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 18, 2018, 20:14
They will keep it for 2 weeks. So much better getting less reves at good speeds and the engine sounds better and running so much better :-) really impressed what a different gearbox and new clutch can do !!!


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on April 18, 2018, 20:18
Thanks but no, I'll have to pass. I wouldn't be able to get there anything near 5pm.
Glad you're pleased with the fix, but Is your spellchecker running amok?
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 18, 2018, 20:21
Lol I was far too quick, just changed it :-)

He will keep it for a bit, possibly 2 weeks, if not will just be scraped..


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: K T M Rider on April 18, 2018, 20:52
Great to see you are all sorted.

Regarding the old box.........

Quote from: jonbill on April 18, 2018, 20:18
Thanks but no, I'll have to pass. I wouldn't be able to get there anything near 5pm.

So the garage owner is going to keep it all safely locked up in his garage for two weeks, just to then throw it away  ??? ::)

Surely would make more sense if Jonbill just says what day he can get there and the garage owner pops it outside when he locks up ? (Could always put it in a bin liner)

BTW if the LSD in it is still good I remember D1ck told me some years ago he could strip them out of a box and sell 'em for around £150 

Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 18, 2018, 21:57
Well he said he would, the scrap guy comes every 2 weeks so.
I did ask d1ck it not worth anything to him, might be good to a scrap man.




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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on April 18, 2018, 22:18
If they'd be happy to leave it out next tues evening I'd drop by and collect it. Possible?
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 19, 2018, 15:55
If you give them a buzz, they are expecting a call. I'm sure they would leave it out for you. It's Hales Garage Barnoldswick 01282 814040 Thanks James


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on April 19, 2018, 21:19
Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 22, 2018, 14:25
Quote from: jonbill on April 19, 2018, 21:19
Thanks, I'll give them a call tomorrow.
Only thing I'd ask JonBill is you tell me what failed on it. I would appreciate that.

Thanks James
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on April 22, 2018, 17:58
I will, no probs. Forgot to call them on Fri - I'll do it tomorrow!
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on April 23, 2018, 20:40
I managed to collect it this evening. Took me a long time to find it - I was looking in the yard next door [emoji38]
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 23, 2018, 20:43
Ah glad you got it :-) id rather it be useful to someone. Its a funny one it does turn but stiffly
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on April 24, 2018, 07:35
Will be interesting to see what's up with it. I think originally you said it was locked solid in the car with wheels on the ground but turns stiffly with the box out, maybe suggests a problem with the diff.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on April 25, 2018, 17:34
Thank you Jon, just got my car back it passed it MOT no advisories and good on the emissions too  :D
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on May 20, 2018, 20:13
I spent the afternoon taking it apart.
This is what I was greeted with when I took the back of the box off:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/e72a4608a2efc4a6df55e0575d94978c.jpg)

There are two things failed:-
A synchronizer hub (not sure if that's 5th or reverse out on the far end)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/efe42424c6c85ae8566fd03b8009a20e.jpg)

And the secondary shaft bearing is a real mess.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180520/239862d08ee1170e2bcb056b6a6c035b.jpg)

Hard to tell what caused it. Maybe the bearing seized first, disintegrated and bits went into the synchro hub and broke that too.
Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jhothersall on May 20, 2018, 20:41
Cheers Thank you for photos that's great to know what happened.

I do hope that you find a use for it :-)


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Title: Re: Gearbox failed.
Post by: jonbill on May 20, 2018, 21:05
Quote from: jhothersall on May 20, 2018, 20:41
Cheers Thank you for photos that's great to know what happened.

I do hope that you find a use for it :-)


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Thanks, yes, very good for me. I now have a nice lsd to go in my MRS at some point and if I do it thr next few monhs I might even remember some useful info about how it comes apart!