Annoyingly broke down at Tesco's earlier today and had to be towed back home !
Car is turning over ok, but not firing up. Can smell petrol when cranking, so think fuel is getting through ok, but perhaps not sparking?
Has anyone else had similar issues or any idea where to start looking when I get time to get my head under the bonnet ?
BTw .... central locking hasn't been working for a while, but don't think that would be anything associated with it unless it affects the immobiliser?
Cheers.
Mel
Sorry to hear that.
Not starting again, after running ok? on the occasions when it happened to me I found to be timing related, but in retrospect there had been previous audible indication of trouble brewing.
Hopefully not the cause of your dilemma, as you say you can smell fuel then sparks would typically be the next thing to check.
Quote from: chalced on April 22, 2018, 16:03
Annoyingly broke down at Tesco's earlier today and had to be towed back home !
Car is turning over ok, but not firing up. Can smell petrol when cranking, so think fuel is getting through ok, but perhaps not sparking?
Has anyone else had similar issues or any idea where to start looking when I get time to get my head under the bonnet ?
BTw .... central locking hasn't been working for a while, but don't think that would be anything associated with it unless it affects the immobiliser?
Cheers.
Mel
Could be immobiliser. Don't think the chip works in the remote if the battery is dud. Could be that the central locking hasn't been working g when the battery is cold.
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Quote from: tomaky on April 22, 2018, 17:05
Quote from: chalced on April 22, 2018, 16:03
Annoyingly broke down at Tesco's earlier today and had to be towed back home !
Car is turning over ok, but not firing up. Can smell petrol when cranking, so think fuel is getting through ok, but perhaps not sparking?
Has anyone else had similar issues or any idea where to start looking when I get time to get my head under the bonnet ?
BTw .... central locking hasn't been working for a while, but don't think that would be anything associated with it unless it affects the immobiliser?
Cheers.
Mel
Could be immobiliser. Don't think the chip works in the remote if the battery is dud. Could be that the central locking hasn't been working g when the battery is cold.
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
Immobiliser cuts the fuel pump though doesn't it Tom? So if there's a smell of fuel you'd assume it's not the immobiliser?
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Ignition timing light is an easy way to tell if it's sparking and whether the sparks are at the right time.
Not much help if you haven't got a timing light I know [emoji849]
Quote from: jonbill on April 22, 2018, 18:14
Ignition timing light is an easy way to tell if it's sparking and whether the sparks are at the right time.
Not much help if you haven't got a timing light I know [emoji849]
Where would you get your signal from?
Chalced: It's a strange one. Even if the spark is out, you really shouldn't be smelling fuel (unless you cranked it for ages). Did you (accidentally) have your foot on the accelerator? That's will stop them from starting and then it can flood up a little. Should start OK after an hour or so's rest.
Otherwise, it needs diagnosing by someone with expertise.
Need to start by pulling the spark plugs and checking for spark.
Yes... checking for a spark is my next port of call... just don't have any time till end of week to work on it.
Not flooding as left it for several hours and still same problem.
I read somewhere that there could be a possible crankshaft sensor fault which causes a similar problem. Just not sure where that sensor is to check it though (awaits next reply in anticipation).
No ignition light to look at that, but I would have thought it would at least try to fire a little if that was out? Besides would it really go that far out after driving ok just 10 mins earlier?
Quote from: Carolyn on April 22, 2018, 19:17
Quote from: jonbill on April 22, 2018, 18:14
Ignition timing light is an easy way to tell if it's sparking and whether the sparks are at the right time.
Not much help if you haven't got a timing light I know [emoji849]
Where would you get your signal from?
I confess is was picturing spark plug leads [emoji847]. I guess I'd pull the whole cop from #1
Quote from: Call the midlife! on April 22, 2018, 18:10
Quote from: tomaky on April 22, 2018, 17:05
Quote from: chalced on April 22, 2018, 16:03
Annoyingly broke down at Tesco's earlier today and had to be towed back home !
Car is turning over ok, but not firing up. Can smell petrol when cranking, so think fuel is getting through ok, but perhaps not sparking?
Has anyone else had similar issues or any idea where to start looking when I get time to get my head under the bonnet ?
BTw .... central locking hasn't been working for a while, but don't think that would be anything associated with it unless it affects the immobiliser?
Cheers.
Mel
Could be immobiliser. Don't think the chip works in the remote if the battery is dud. Could be that the central locking hasn't been working g when the battery is cold.
Sent from my CLT-L09 using Tapatalk
Immobiliser cuts the fuel pump though doesn't it Tom? So if there's a smell of fuel you'd assume it's not the immobiliser?
Could have a point there.
Quote from: chalced on April 22, 2018, 19:58
Yes... checking for a spark is my next port of call... just don't have any time till end of week to work on it.
Not flooding as left it for several hours and still same problem.
I read somewhere that there could be a possible crankshaft sensor fault which causes a similar problem. Just not sure where that sensor is to check it though (awaits next reply in anticipation).
No ignition light to look at that, but I would have thought it would at least try to fire a little if that was out? Besides would it really go that far out after driving ok just 10 mins earlier?
Here's a pic of the crank sensor. A bit of a piglet to get at in the car- but very do-able. Very often, a dirty earth (right next to the sensor) is the culprit.
Thanks.
May check this out first if I can manage to find it!
I would try plugging in a code reader. It only takes a minute, so no big deal if it doesn't show anything.
When the crank sensor failed on my Alfa it produced an error code, so could be worth a look.
No codes showing.
Just checked for sparks and everything looks good there.
Plugs were wet with fuel, so I am pretty sure the petrol is getting through. Still not firing though.
Do you still get a spark if the crankcase sensor is faulty? And I presume I have to access that from below as I can't even see it from the top!?
Thanks
My not starting/ timing issue was in the days of carburettors, and distributors but, you have fuel and you have sparks so I'm still thinking they are not at the same/ correct time.
It occurs to me that if you have sparks and wet plugs, there should be no reason why the car won't run, as the timing of the ignition and injection is all done by the ECU and two sensors. The crank sensor and the cam sensor, neither of which can go out of timing.
So, either one of those sensors is giving a dodgy signal or there's something else strangely amiss.
Both those senors need their earths disconnected, cleaned and reconnected. The earth for the camshaft sensor is to be found on the end of the cylinder head at the gearbox end. The earth for the crank sensor is just above it on the timing cover. You'll need to put the car up on jack-stands and then it's not hard to get to.
At the same time, check that the throttle cable has a little free play and that the throttle butterfly is not sticking slightly open.
Any open throttle at starting will give the symptoms you are reporting.
So, what happened next, don't leave us in suspenders!
So, @chalced (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6841) ,what happened next, don't leave us in suspenders!
lol... went on me hols last week, so didnt get chance to work on it.
Cant get to cam sensors... nearly took all skin off my knuckles trying!
Think it must be something on the timing side though as everything else seems fine.
Now in the process of looking for a mobile mechanic in the Coventry area as I think I have gone as far as I can on my limited experience!
Quote from: chalced on May 15, 2018, 16:26
lol... went on me hols last week, so didnt get chance to work on it.
Cant get to cam sensors... nearly took all skin off my knuckles trying!
Think it must be something on the timing side though as everything else seems fine.
Now in the process of looking for a mobile mechanic in the Coventry area as I think I have gone as far as I can on my limited experience!
Give Steve@d1 customs (look in affiliates section) a call. He is only in Loughborough. He'll get it sorted for you.
Thanks - tried phoning him today, but not answering :(
:(
I'll see if I can raise him for you.
Oooerrrr... that makes you sound like a necromancer .... lol
Raise him is very different to raise him up from the dead. Lol.
I have no word from him yet either. He is deffo your man though. :)
Lol... just tried again today and no answer.
Will try again tomorrow but if no luck will have to try elsewhere.
Frustrating having all this good weather and the cars off the road!
Thanks for the update @chalced (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6841) but coming up to time for another.
Did Steve get resurrected?
Unfortunately it is often the case that people in the know are popular but that popularity can make them sometimes difficult to contact!
Or maybe his "hols" as well ;)
No answer from me either. I was guessing holibobs too.
What is it with mobile mechanics?
I have 1 who doesn't answer a phone (just rings out)
1 who said he would phone back and after chasing him a couple of times the other week still hasn't gotten back to me.
And 1 who said he could make it today and asked me to txt my address to confirm, but now isn't responding to txts or calls to see what time he is 'supposed' to be turning up.
Running out of options!
Your frustration at trying to contact someone via a mobile phone is exactly the reason I would not do business in that way.
You have nowhere to go if anything goes wrong.It's bad enough sometimes when you use a garage with premises,( ask Norman about that) and me for that matter!
Would have no problem in using a regular garage, but as it doesn't start it is difficult to get it anywhere. Can't tow it due to the body kit, so would have to be lifted onto a flatbed which is rather expensive. Hence the reason to try the mobile mechanic option before I go down that route.
And surprise surprise ... a no show!
Have to wait until after bank hols now.
Quote from: chalced on May 24, 2018, 20:53
And surprise surprise ... a no show!
Have to wait until after bank hols now.
That is one thing that really boils my waste water :protest:
Hopefully you can find someone that wants and can do the work.
Can we get @Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891) to do a Flying Doctor type thing :)
Update....
Managed to get a mobile mechanic out today ... yaaay
He checked the timing... All seemed ok
He checked the fuel pump and fuel going into engine.... All seemed ok
He cleaned off the earth on the crank sensor and tested it by seeing the revs come up on a diagnostic computer when we were cranking... All seemed ok
Says that the spark is a bit weak at the plug, but that it should be ok to fire
Somebody hasn't told the car that everything is ok as it still doesn't want to fire up.
So pretty much stumped as to what else it could be now.
And just put brand new plugs in (just in case), just clutching at straws really - no difference.
So I presume you drove it to Tesco and it was ok, you filled up then it wouldn't start ?
Did you drive there on low fuel, fumes ? How much did you put in?
Tesco had a problem last year with contaminated fuel that wrecked a few engines, just wondering if it could be something like that again. If you didn't put much in, could you Syphon it out and put some other brand fuel in?
@chalced (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6841)
Could the immobiliser be stopping you starting?
I am guessing a dud battery in your key may be the problem?
Was shopping in Tesco not filling up so half a tank of fuel already in.
Key fob not been working for a while, so have been manually locking car for the last few months. Thought the immobiliser shut off the fuel pump? And the pump is all tested ok.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=064Ilsz8Fzg
@chalced (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6841)
The above link likely shows most of what you've checked but there is a follow on about the crank position sensor.
I have little experience with modern car systems but the symptoms relate to my similar , past experiences where I had sparks, and fuel but the car would not start. In each occasion it was the timing at fault. The modern method is via the crank position sensor so that is where I would be looking.
I do,wish you some better luck.
sorry to see you are still struggling 6 weeks on.
seemingly not the exact same issue, as he was getting error codes, but cabrioman has just sorted his by replacing the ecu.
Pretty sure I've seen them for sale on the bay for around £50 - so looks worth a punt to me.
Cabrioman's readers ride thread : https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=62978.50
Going backwards now. Tried taking out the fuel injectors just to see if everything was ok. Have managed to break 2 of the seals putting them back and now have petrol pissin out!!
Anyone know if I can just get new seals or do I need new injectors?
I take it you mean the O rings at the top? If so, PM me your address and I'll send a couple.
When you put the injectors back in, smear a little oil on them. They'll pop in without tearing.
Thanks Carolyn... owe you 1 !!
Just getting frustrated with it now!
I'm sure you are. I've looked over the thread and I'm struggling to add anything useful.
I would probably (if it were in my workshop) run a compression check and check valve clearances,. As to the spark; A 'bit weak', might be too weak.
Something happened at Tesco's and it's probably something really simple. But short of having the car in front of me, I can't think of much else.
Yes.. head scratching.. spark is fine now that I put the new plugs in.. checked it again this morning before I started messing with the injectors. Seem to have at least a certain amount of compression, but only tested by putting hand over plug hole.
Thinking maybe Ecu? But have read somewhere that replacing that means reprogramming keys and things? And it's not just a straight 1 for 1 swap and still not necessarily going to fix things.... arghhh
I know Dean at Rutland MR2 will supply an ecu with keys (and locks) for not a lot of money. Key internals can be swapped/programmed to avoid changing locks...
Seeing as something just 'quit' ECU is a possibility.
Shame your mobile mechanic quit on the job without finding the problem.
I'd get the car to Steve, if I were you. Paying to get it trailered might be cheaper than spending money on guesses.
Yes, still trying to get hold of Steve, but no reply to either phoning or Facebook mails
Steve is deffo your best bet. He is supposed to be coming to DD on Saturday.
If I see him, I'll deffo point him your way.
Is yours a standard engine but just with NOS?
The only reason I ask is that I know of 2 cars running 2 ecus after engine swops that have failed to start due to a blown fuse cutting power to 1 ecu. It was (I think) the EF1 fuse in the rear that caused the problem.
If you are clutching straws it may be worth taking out all the fuses and inspecting. It may be pointless but may make you feel better that you are doing something!
Only engine difference is uprated cams. Been in there for years now. I did have the unichip piggyback unit fitted, but removed that to see if something had blown on it. The ecu is getting power as it responds to code/diagnostic readers.
Already checked all the fuses. It was my first port of call trying to find a quick easy fix.
(:< >:)
You've got fuel and you've got spark. Have you tried easystart or something similar to test whether it might be bad fuel? 1/2 tank of diesel would certainly make it not run.
Quote from: jonbill on June 7, 2018, 21:03
You've got fuel and you've got spark. Have you tried easystart or something similar to test whether it might be bad fuel? 1/2 tank of diesel would certainly make it not run.
That makes so much sense. considering how and when.... and so easily done. (NOT that I've ever done it. I put petrol in diesels, I do.)
Yes, already tried squirting that up the air intake.
Fuel is deffo ok as it was running like a dream for 30 mins before I pulled into the car park. I had filled up with premium just a couple of days beforehand.
O rings turned up today. Thanks Carolyn. Brilliant tip about putting some oil on them.. They all slipped in like they lived there ! And no leakage. (That all just sounds wrong).
Actually thought it was about to fire up when I tried starting, but after the inititial try my hopes were dashed and it's back to where it was before I killed the injectors.
(:< >:) (:< >:) (:< >:)
After talking to a few other people, I have now ordered a cheap compression tester to see if perhaps head gasket has gone. Sho7ld be here by weekend, so will see what it shows....
The only other ingredient missing surely is air?
With throttle closed it is dependent on that damn IAC valve being wide open.
If it's sealed shut, can it get enough air in to fire up?
Maybe worth trying to disconnect the tps sensor and opening the throttle a smidge?
Are you still running the NOS
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NOS is connected, but hasn't been used for ages.
After a bit more investigation it turns out the nos inlet is permanently open allowing fuel into the air intake. (Even though it's not even powered up), so I wonder if there was not enough air getting in?
I have to get some sort of blanking bolt which I can fit in to see if that helps. Thanks @shnazzle (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=18356) for pointing me the right way, although I still can't get it firing with this day connected, but I wonder if this is due to lack of fuel pressure as some of it was going the wrong way?
Off to my local car parts place to see if they have something I can use as a blank....
Update.....
Actually got the engine running now. Yaaaaay..
Put a blanking bolt in the NOS solenoid and it sorta tried to start. Decided to put the whole air intake back together and after stamping on the accelerator pedal for 5 secs it fired up.
Still doesn't sound 'quite ' right at the moment, but that could be to do with the fact that the main drive belt isn't fitted just yet.
Quick question.... the exhaust had tons of fuel in it... would that be normal after having it squirted into the air intake for a while? Have cleaned it out and it seems ok, just a little worrying.
Another quick one.... anyone have a diagram of how the belt goes? It wasn't me who took it off, so not sure of the routing (with ac too)
Ta.
The fuel will clear out. Get the belt on and let it run for a bit. Might still have some air issues.
Belt for A/C is easy to remember;
Its 3 levels of pulleys from top to bottom.
Idler and alternator at the top, tensioner and water pump in middle, then crank and AC at the bottom.
So: Outer, inner, outer from top row to bottom.
Outside the pulleys, inside of the pulleys, outside of the pulleys.
"You put right leg in, your right leg out...."
I can't recommend shaking it all about though
Dont knock it until you try it!
Cant help thinking a photo might help?
No, of the pulleys, not your leg.
like this
@Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891) nice one for the reference section. Be good to get an engine bay shot to correlate your clear diagram.
Quote from: StuC on June 14, 2018, 12:06
@Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891) nice one for the reference section. Be good to get an engine bay shot to correlate your clear diagram.
She helped me do mine on Ding Day (Well, OK, she did most of the work). Could have done then.
But it would have needed my medical camera thing, because it's difficult to get a pic in there!
Quote from: StuC on June 14, 2018, 12:06
@Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891) nice one for the reference section. Be good to get an engine bay shot to correlate your clear diagram.
I'm not a Moderator for the Reference Section. However, that section is such a mess, it's really not a lot of use. It's already covered in 'How To' s.
THanks everyone for all your help and support.
Belt is on and engine seems to be running just fine now (and only managed to scrape 3 knuckles doing it!).
Just got to put the inside back together (where I checked the fuel pump and disconnected the uni-chip) and tidy up the engine bay again (lots of cable ties to go back on and tightening nuts etc).
Hope to take it back out for a quick test run tomorrow :D :D :D
Fingers crossed for you!
Good news for everyone that was following... running like a dream now.. just won't be able to use the nitrous unless I get new solenoids. Btbh i hadn5 used it for a few years any way !
;)
Nice one. Now drive and enjoy
Result hope to see the beast at the Jap Performance Show
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