Its time to take a look at the underside of my car... Its all solid but looks awful! Rubbing it down seems to be a worse prospect than chemicaly treating the rust so what do you reccomend based on personal experience? What have you used and found disappointing?
Brand names, prices, marks out of ten on how well it works - any info at all would be appreciated as I hope to do this just once not every year!
Bilt Hamber Hydrate 80 rust converter is one I am thinking of, but its not cheap - does a 500ml can go very far?
Youtube vids show this stuff to be effective and is available in the UK via ebay £28 for a gallon!
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/METAL-RESCUE-RUST-REMOVER-BATH-CONCENTRATE-414ML-Safe-On-Everything-Except-Rust/252818454914?hash=item3add277982:g:rZAAAOSwsW9YzAcJ
I've found this to be very effective. Again not cheap, but how often do you need to use it and what's the value of a good result?
Really, one should rub down AND treat, if you want it gone. A quick go-around with a rotary wire brush deals with most of it quite quickly.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fertan-Rust-Treatment-Killer-Protector-250ml-With-Spray-Trigger/183194766501?epid=3017015081&hash=item2aa7424ca5:g:nIgAAOSweLBacyly
I have been using some K-rust, but good to know there are many other options, think I saw Ericthecarguy on Youtube try out some metal rescue (paid for though) but it did seem to convert the rust.
I have used some K-rust already on a few surface bits of rust on my subframe and under the frunk, seems to have stopped any further rust so far.
Avoid this, it's flaking off again
https://www.toolstation.com/shop/Painting+%26+Decorating/d150/Metal+Paints+%26+Primers/sd3152/Rust+Converter/p43408
High concentrate Phosphoric Acid is readily available on t'ebay, either use it neat or water down depending on application.
As above, wire knot wheel on a drill (or grinder for much quicker results) to get all the heavier stuff off & then apply the acid... sorry "rust converter".
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Food-Grade-Phosphoric-Acid-85-1-Litre-Etching-Solution-Descaler-Rust-Remover-/161996928699
Thanks for the replies guys. Keep them comming please.
The two I mentioned in my opening post were really appealing because they didn't damage paint or hands -two things which are rather important to me!
What about your rust removers? Are they safe in the hands of an amateur, or will I end up with a rust free underside, one hand & and a car in need of a respray? LOL
Quote from: Carolyn on May 11, 2018, 11:54
A quick go-around with a rotary wire brush deals with most of it quite quickly.
Sorry for my pessimism here @Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891) , but please define a "quick go-around" as your idea of "quick and simple" has most of the rest of us passing out just at the thought of it...
The reason I ask is that I do need to do this at some stage, but I'll be borrowing a patch of tarmac from somebody, so what is the total time from the time the car is jacked up and on axle stands until the work is finished (assuming no further procrastination and working flat out with a drill + wire brush attachments and the car on axle stands). Even just a very approximate ballpark from the time the car is back down and looking normal and then how soon can it be driven away?
Also, while we're on the subject, llet's start a shopping list (tools included):
Axle stands, jack and drill (most can borrow / have at these already)
1x Set of wire brushes (£6 on Amazon (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0032ZK41K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A36KT696ALE5NZ&psc=1))? (consumable - I have one, but not in good shape)
2x(?) 250ml bottles of Fertan (£15 on eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fertan-Rust-Treatment-Killer-Protector-250ml-With-Spray-Trigger/183194766501?epid=3017015081&hash=item2aa7424ca5:g:nIgAAOSweLBacyly))
Treatment material?
DYNAX UB (e.g. Amazon @ £20 per 750ml (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bilt-Hamber-Dynax-UB-Anti-Corrosion/dp/B01KFYEZ6U)) - will two be enough?!?
DYNAX S-50 inside the subframe using the provided 60cm lance (or is this only for pre-treating a subframe?) (£15-£20 per 750ml (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bilt-Hamber-Dynax-Anti-Corrosion-750ml/dp/B007FR4124/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526056511&sr=8-1&keywords=dynax+s50))
I assume some working gloves, goggles and a facemask would be sensible too.... anything else needed?
Ok.
For me, a 'quick go around' involves putting the car on the lift!! So Add jacking up and putting on stands to the time. You can jack up, say, front and do a lot, then back and do the rest, so two jack-stands should suffice. As any work under the car MUST involve jack-stands, they are a very good investment for the future.
Right: Wire brushes, you can get a set of cheap ones from most motor parts shops, only a very few quids. One 250 ml bottle of Fertan will leave you with left-overs.
Gloves and goggles a must. Personally I hate working in a face mask, but not a bad idea. Again gloves and goggles always good to have in your tool kit.
Time? Depends how OCD you are. I'd say 3-4 hours for a proper job. It's a lot of big flat areas, mostly, though there are 'nooks and crannies' in the corners or the engine compartment that will be more fiddly.
My method is to wire-brush, then Fertan. I spread it around a bit with a paint-brush (which will be trashed). Give the Fertan 20 mins to dry. (1st tea break) Spray over with Zinc primer (in any motor parts shop) and allow to dry (2nd tea break) and then an approximation of your body colour. Two coats of each won't hurt.
Drive it away as soon as it's back on the floor.
Oh - the sub frame/. Externally I'd do the same as the rest of the car. Then I'd seal the four holes at the top corners (where it bolts to the chassis) with engine sealant. Make sure the metal is clean and grease-free, so the sealant will stick, I use gloves, and put sealant on the end of a finger to get it into the holes.
Then remove some rubber bungs and insert the treatment of your choice. I tend to favour sealing the two little drain holes (look carefully between the suspension mounting points - you'll see a small hole on each side), with tape, then pour in Waxyoil, to a bit of excess, then replace bungs (a bit of Fairy liquid comes in handy) and then allow a bit of vigorous driving to spread it around.
Lots of people have their preferred alternatives to Waxyoil, and I'm sure they will all go a good job inside the subframe. I did quite a bit of research on sub-frame preservation and I'm convinced that the key is to keep out moisture, road muck and especially salt. It rusts from the inside out and. like most chemical reactions, heat (the exhaust) speeds up the process. That's why I say seal the holes up.
Ok. So another hour for the subframe.
Warm dry day is a big help!!
Go for it!!
@Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891)
Do you use Fertan Rust Remover?
Fertan rust converter seems to be a different product? Apparently you put it on and leave it over night; during which time it turns the metal to a black coating that doesn't require paint for up to six months?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhW1T7QwC9E
Quote from: MR TWO on May 11, 2018, 19:21
@Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891)
Do you use Fertan Rust Remover?
Fertan rust converter seems to be a different product? Apparently you put it on and leave it over night; during which time it turns the metal to a black coating that doesn't require paint for up to six months?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhW1T7QwC9E
I use the stuff in the link I gave above. That video seems like a bit of a Yankee sales pitch to me. The chemical conversion will proceed whether it's painted over or not. The idea that you don't need to paint and seal properly (especially underneath a UK car) seems a little fanciful.
I've done my best to advise. :) there are other products. The point,surely is to treat the rust properly.
Quote from: Carolyn on May 11, 2018, 19:28
Quote from: MR TWO on May 11, 2018, 19:21
@Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891)
Do you use Fertan Rust Remover?
Fertan rust converter seems to be a different product? Apparently you put it on and leave it over night; during which time it turns the metal to a black coating that doesn't require paint for up to six months?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhW1T7QwC9E
I use the stuff in the link I gave you. That video seems like a bit of a Yankee sales pitch to me. The chemical conversion will proceed whether it's painted over or not. The idea that you don't need to paint and seal properly (especially underneath a UK car) seems a little fanciful.
I've done my best to advise. :)
Yeah I agree with you, it was the length of time they suggested leaving it to work (24 hours) that made me wonder which one you had used. Thanks!
Back in the day, the easiest and cheapest solution was the wire brush in an electric grill and a coating of old engine oil with a paint brush. I accept that technology has moved us on a bit since then! ;)
The main issue is where the car is rusting from the inside out so you need to think about Waxoil type products, but how long realistically are you going to keep the car?
Quote from: mrzwei on May 11, 2018, 23:46
Back in the day, the easiest and cheapest solution was the wire brush in an electric grill and a coating of old engine oil with a paint brush. I accept that technology has moved us on a bit since then! ;)
The main issue is where the car is rusting from the inside out so you need to think about Waxoil type products, but how long realistically are you going to keep the car?
My car has the surface rust on the underside, that most MR2's have that are untreated. I don't think its rusting from the inside out anywhere at all - fortunately.
Realistically I doubt if I will keep the car another thirty years, but I might...
MR TWO said:
" Realistically I doubt if I will keep the car another thirty years, but I might..."
I'd like to think I will, but!
Vactan is good, it's non toxic, the army use it to stop their rust buckets dissolving. Can be painted over as well or you can just leave it. I use it a lot on any rust I find on my camper.
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