Has anyone ever considered converting the rear brakes to a drum in disc setup (picture attached), where the tiny drum takes care of the handbrake function? I don't actually know if they're any good, but it cannot be as bad as the current handbrake setup. Some initial internet research shows that the Rav4 has them. This will likely mean smaller discs at the rear, but the front discs do most of the work anyway when you use the brakes. I'd love to explore the option as I fear I'll one day come to my car and it isn't where I parked it!
Oh yes they can be worse! Had them on two cars. Even with all new bits, barely worked on an incline.
Worse?!? Oh good. I might start taking wheel chocks and a rubber mallet around with me, the constant adjustment is barely worth the hassle! I wonder if anyone has done a complete disc to drum conversion before...
Nope. I like my red calipers too much.
Quote from: hq114 on June 5, 2018, 11:39
I'd love to explore the option as I fear I'll one day come to my car and it isn't where I parked it!
Dead simple - leave the car in gear!
I thought braking was equal, if anything rear dominant on these? That's what disc size would suggest anyway.
Quote from: tricky1138 on June 5, 2018, 12:41
Quote from: hq114 on June 5, 2018, 11:39
I'd love to explore the option as I fear I'll one day come to my car and it isn't where I parked it!
Dead simple - leave the car in gear!
I know there's ways around it, but it would be nice to have an actual solution. I don't think I've encountered any owner that doesn't start sweating at the thought of an MOT.
I don't get it. I've had 3 mr2s in the household now and always done they brakes on them. One of them being a horribly maintained (by previous owner!) 120k mile pre-fl and ive never had handbrake issues.
I know eventually the cables will stretch but I really don't get the problem. They're self-adjusting.
I think they're alright
Quote from: shnazzle on June 5, 2018, 13:43
I don't get it. I've had 3 mr2s in the household now and always done they brakes on them. One of them being a horribly maintained (by previous owner!) 120k mile pre-fl and ive never had handbrake issues.
I know eventually the cables will stretch but I really don't get the problem. They're self-adjusting.
I think they're alright
My old 2 wasnt too bad but still needed adjustment before each MOT, this one has been worse, but I do think it is the cables at fault - hopefully a new set will fix it! :)
Quote from: shnazzle on June 5, 2018, 13:43
I don't get it. I've had 3 mr2s in the household now and always done they brakes on them. One of them being a horribly maintained (by previous owner!) 120k mile pre-fl and ive never had handbrake issues.
I know eventually the cables will stretch but I really don't get the problem. They're self-adjusting.
I think they're alright
I've had mine 8 years and it has never batted an eye lid at MOT time.
I adjusted it recently just to bring it down a little and it's worse than ever. They are naturally very high I think. Just like they naturally have no idea how much coolant that have. Lol
Shnazzle mentioned that the brakes are self adjusting, as I understand are all disc brakes. However, I do "encourage" my cars brakes to self adjust by occasionally giving the brake pedal a good workout while stationary with engine running.
Quote from: hq114 on June 5, 2018, 11:39the front discs do most of the work anyway when you use the brakes
I think you'll find that the rears do more than the fronts...
Italian tuneup, get those brakes exercised regularly..
Quote from: Alex Knight on June 13, 2018, 15:24
Quote from: hq114 on June 5, 2018, 11:39the front discs do most of the work anyway when you use the brakes
I think you'll find that the rears do more than the fronts...
I think you'll find that they don't.
Depends which direction you are going.
How does the self adjuster actually work? That might help figure why they are so bad.
Putting it in gear only works if your engine has enough compression or a strong enough clutch to not start rolling :( mine rolls off with a tail wind
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Quote from: shnazzle on June 5, 2018, 13:43
I don't get it. I've had 3 mr2s in the household now and always done they brakes on them. One of them being a horribly maintained (by previous owner!) 120k mile pre-fl and ive never had handbrake issues.
I know eventually the cables will stretch but I really don't get the problem. They're self-adjusting.
I think they're alright
You know you just jinxed them, don't you? Now that you've fixed the turbo...
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Quote from: cptspaulding on June 13, 2018, 22:16
Quote from: shnazzle on June 5, 2018, 13:43
I don't get it. I've had 3 mr2s in the household now and always done they brakes on them. One of them being a horribly maintained (by previous owner!) 120k mile pre-fl and ive never had handbrake issues.
I know eventually the cables will stretch but I really don't get the problem. They're self-adjusting.
I think they're alright
You know you just jinxed them, don't you? Now that you've fixed the turbo...
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Damn... You're right. Best strip my brakes soon as well haha
Quote from: Carolyn on June 13, 2018, 18:56
Quote from: Alex Knight on June 13, 2018, 15:24
Quote from: hq114 on June 5, 2018, 11:39the front discs do most of the work anyway when you use the brakes
I think you'll find that the rears do more than the fronts...
I think you'll find that they don't.
Can you please explain why am I getting through 3 sets of rear pads to every one set of fronts then?
And yes, my brakes are functioning correctly.
Quote from: Alex Knight on June 13, 2018, 23:21
Quote from: Carolyn on June 13, 2018, 18:56
Quote from: Alex Knight on June 13, 2018, 15:24
Quote from: hq114 on June 5, 2018, 11:39the front discs do most of the work anyway when you use the brakes
I think you'll find that the rears do more than the fronts...
I think you'll find that they don't.
Can you please explain why am I getting through 3 sets of rear pads to every one set of fronts then?
And yes, my brakes are functioning correctly.
That doesn't sound normal, assuming that the pads are being replaced as a result of wear.
Quote from: McMr2 on June 14, 2018, 09:30
Quote from: Alex Knight on June 13, 2018, 23:21
Quote from: Carolyn on June 13, 2018, 18:56
Quote from: Alex Knight on June 13, 2018, 15:24
Quote from: hq114 on June 5, 2018, 11:39the front discs do most of the work anyway when you use the brakes
I think you'll find that the rears do more than the fronts...
I think you'll find that they don't.
Can you please explain why am I getting through 3 sets of rear pads to every one set of fronts then?
And yes, my brakes are functioning correctly.
That doesn't sound normal, assuming that the pads are being replaced as a result of wear.
I've done one track day on a set of unknown pads. Fronts have some left on them, rears are completely worn. I doubt it's rear biased, but it's probably not far off 50:50. Perhaps the cooling is worse on the rear.
Quote from: McMr2 on June 14, 2018, 09:30
Quote from: Alex Knight on June 13, 2018, 23:21
Quote from: Carolyn on June 13, 2018, 18:56
Quote from: Alex Knight on June 13, 2018, 15:24
Quote from: hq114 on June 5, 2018, 11:39the front discs do most of the work anyway when you use the brakes
I think you'll find that the rears do more than the fronts...
I think you'll find that they don't.
Can you please explain why am I getting through 3 sets of rear pads to every one set of fronts then?
And yes, my brakes are functioning correctly.
That doesn't sound normal, assuming that the pads are being replaced as a result of wear.
It's been consistent since I've owned the car ~ 5 years or so.
I believe that hard track work amplifies brake characteristics, and I believe those characteristics to be rear biased. I stand by this.
I am pretty tough on brakes on track, much more than most from what I've seen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPXMi0vkTe0&t=2s
I can just about believe a 2 has a higher rear brake load than the majority of cars, but more load on the back would defy physics I think.
There's more traction at the front because of the weight transfer under braking and if the brakes weren't biased to the front then the ABS would be firing at the rear under max braking.
Why would the rear pads wear 3x quicker in those circumstances? As someone already observed, they will be hotter because of less airflow, the pads have 25% less area than the front, maybe the pads have different material that wears faster.
We can be sure that pad wearing out rate doesn't necessarily correspond to brake load/work.
Do you trail-brake a lot on track?
Quote from: shnazzle on June 15, 2018, 14:13
Do you trail-brake a lot on track?
Not really, that leads to turn in oversteer for me. I tend to get it all done in a straight line whenever possible.
Toyota mustn't agree that the rear does more work under braking, as they fitted the bigger, thicker discs to the front.
If the rear does more braking, they would have beefed up the rear brakes...
Quote from: smarty72 on June 17, 2018, 18:55
Toyota mustn't agree that the rear does more work under braking, as they fitted the bigger, thicker discs to the front.
If the rear does more braking, they would have beefed up the rear brakes...
Erm, no.
Front discs are 255mm diameter.
Rear discs are 263mm diameter.
Quote from: Alex Knight on June 19, 2018, 14:48
Quote from: smarty72 on June 17, 2018, 18:55
Toyota mustn't agree that the rear does more work under braking, as they fitted the bigger, thicker discs to the front.
If the rear does more braking, they would have beefed up the rear brakes...
Erm, no.
Front discs are 255mm diameter.
Rear discs are 263mm diameter.
That's one measurement taken in isolation.
You need to look at all the dimensions, at which point it is apparent that the front brakes are bigger with a greater 'swept' area of the disc;
height - 43mm versus 41mm
Thickness - 20/18mm versus 16/14mm
Yes the overall 'diameter' is marginally smaller, but the disc overall is bigger.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180619/7043f0f13e157a83168d0cc7e240e04e.png)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180619/1159b388039e5679d927279bde216fdc.png)
Also look at the relative size of the callipers. The front brakes will always do more work than the rears.
The size of the rear discs will be as a result of what Toyota already had access to in the parts bin that could be made to work more than anything else.
To go back to the original post.
As a starting point, might the prius gen 2 offer a starting point.
Thats what they have.
Drum in disc. Drum in hat. And quess what.
Works very well. Once it is adjusted correctly. (Cheers steve)
Clearly much work to do. 2 rear driven prius front driven. But, Mr T does do this arrangement.
Quote from: Smcknighty on June 13, 2018, 21:02
How does the self adjuster actually work? That might help figure why they are so bad
On phone so not an exhaustive answer.
Look for exploded diagrams in academy section.
But basically within the piston/caliper an adjusting nut should move along a thread to take up wear of pad. Problem is nut often seizes on the thread ( for whatever reason) rather than work its way along it.