Firstly...NO CHARGE COOLERS ALLOWED.
I would say a charge cooler is undoubtedly the best option for the mr2.BUT, due do various constraints, normally financial, people choose a simpler intercooler.
The idea of this post is:
To get comparisons of intake temps from as many different set ups as possible.
To help others reduce theirs.
To see if we can compete with charge coolers for a fraction of the cost.
So, to start things of I'll go first.
38 degrees@70mph , cruising, ambient 21degrees.
Boosting around this went up to about 43.
I have a Toyosport intercooler, 550x140x64mm, located under the rear cross member at an angle.
Only attempt at cooling is an ally scoop that sits just lower than the subframe.
Have recently purchased more ally for a heat shield and another scoop(top secret for now), a turbo blanket, exhaust titanium heat wrap and a 9" fan for the bonnet lid. I'll be posting the results I get when I get home to fit them!!
@HereComesTheWife sits at a cozy 53deg at boost with 22deg ambient, using the TTE intercooler on SP240 kit.
Not good.
Cruising at 41-45deg intake temps.
Pending Dan's guinea pig work before we come up with a plan of action
Quote from: shnazzle on June 13, 2018, 15:51
@HereComesTheWife (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=23368) sits at a cozy 53deg at boost with 22deg ambient, using the TTE intercooler on SP240 kit.
Not good.
Cruising at 41-45deg intake temps.
Pending Dan's guinea pig work before we come up with a plan of action
Is that above the halfway mark on the water temp gauge? I have no way of knowing how warm it gets back there apart from that gauge.
That's water temp Art!
We're talking intake temps. There's no gauge for that unless you load up Torque
Quote from: SuperArt on June 20, 2018, 19:09
Quote from: shnazzle on June 13, 2018, 15:51
@HereComesTheWife (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=23368) sits at a cozy 53deg at boost with 22deg ambient, using the TTE intercooler on SP240 kit.
Not good.
Cruising at 41-45deg intake temps.
Pending Dan's guinea pig work before we come up with a plan of action
Is that above the halfway mark on the water temp gauge? I have no way of knowing how warm it gets back there apart from that gauge.
😂 that's what I mean. That's the only temperature gauge I have in the car.
Does intake temp not correlate to water temp at all?
Quote from: SuperArt on June 20, 2018, 19:14
[emoji23] that's what I mean. That's the only temperature gauge I have in the car.
Does intake temp not correlate to water temp at all?
Nahh. What're temp should only fluctuate 1-2 degrees once up to temp. Intake temps can vary a lot depending on the thrashing she's getting.
Or heat soak at stationary.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180620/c3934df99f88247150a36726c3be9691.png)
Anyone heard anything about these?
I'm thinking the air wouldn't be in the pipe long enough for it to take any effect?
Agreed. Might work for oil or water but not air. Especially not on boost. Unless you had liquid nitrogen surrounding the pipe
Quote from: shnazzle on June 20, 2018, 20:04
Agreed. Might work for oil or water but not air. Especially not on boost. Unless you had liquid nitrogen surrounding the pipe
Hmm. Liquid nitrogen jacket? Too far?
Quote from: dan944 on June 20, 2018, 20:21
Quote from: shnazzle on June 20, 2018, 20:04
Agreed. Might work for oil or water but not air. Especially not on boost. Unless you had liquid nitrogen surrounding the pipe
Hmm. Liquid nitrogen jacket? Too far?
...and charge coolers aren't allowed?!?
methinks you've lost sight of the end game!! :P
Mine is for a daily driver, that WILL sometimes sit in traffic shortly after a reasonable thrashing, it will then be called on to boost again and deliver power reliably, so I've decided to save a few more pennies and only turbo it when I can afford the (£700-ish extra?) for a chargecooler too... I'm hoping to get ballpark 200-220whp, so slightly up on the entry level turbo (probably 180-190whp), I know chargecooler setups usually go for 250whp and more, but the main thing for me is that it is comfortable getting there all the time - I'm driving the car on the road, not on a dyno, so no point in being able to get the power on a dyno (for bragging rights?), but then unable to actually get that on the road without cooking the rear quarter of the car or making things break.
Quote from: BahnStormer on June 23, 2018, 07:27
Quote from: dan944 on June 20, 2018, 20:21
Quote from: shnazzle on June 20, 2018, 20:04
Agreed. Might work for oil or water but not air. Especially not on boost. Unless you had liquid nitrogen surrounding the pipe
Hmm. Liquid nitrogen jacket? Too far?
...and charge coolers aren't allowed?!?
methinks you've lost sight of the end game!! :P
Mine is for a daily driver, that WILL sometimes sit in traffic shortly after a reasonable thrashing, it will then be called on to boost again and deliver power reliably, so I've decided to save a few more pennies and only turbo it when I can afford the (£700-ish extra?) for a chargecooler too... I'm hoping to get ballpark 200-220whp, so slightly up on the entry level turbo (probably 180-190whp), I know chargecooler setups usually go for 250whp and more, but the main thing for me is that it is comfortable getting there all the time - I'm driving the car on the road, not on a dyno, so no point in being able to get the power on a dyno (for bragging rights?), but then unable to actually get that on the road without cooking the rear quarter of the car or making things break.
Hey!!! No charge cooler allowed.
The idea was just for people find a the best intercooler set up or how to reduce their temps. There were a few other reason i don't want to chargecool yet though
I'm decently sure that with everything you've now done, Dan, you've got a good setup.
Quote from: shnazzle on June 23, 2018, 08:46
I'm decently sure that with everything you've now done, Dan, you've got a good setup.
I'll let you know this afternoon :)
Have you thought about behind the wheel intercooler with arch delete or half removed? You will also have to mod the bumper to drive the air out or fit a duct or something like this.
Quote from: Nvy on June 23, 2018, 10:50
Have you thought about behind the wheel intercooler with arch delete or half removed? You will also have to mod the bumper to drive the air out or fit a duct or something like this.
The thing isn't intercooler is 650 mm total length plus pipework either end. I wanted max flow from the length. I think I should get some decent flow through it with the scoop. We'll see.
Hmm, temps seem worse :/
What's ambient?
It's 24 degrees in my house today.
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 23, 2018, 17:59
What's ambient?
It's 24 degrees in my house today.
24 ambient. 51 degrees under boost. Not managed a motorway cruise yet though :/.
Motorway drive this morn.
Ambient 11 degrees.
70mph 27 degrees.
That's a 4 degree drop in average temps. Not hugely pleased. Wanted more really. Might revisit once it's mapped properly.
I wonder whether having the fan there is actually making it worse at speed.
Can you remove it and try again?
We tried to put the turbo blanket over the teeny tiny t2559 and couldn't get it on. Was hoping to present a bit data for this thread as we have a long drive this weekend.
Really! I feel bad is I recommended it. Mine was tricky to get on but it fits on fairly well. The old manifold bracket was in the way for my and I need to get it on the ramps to take it off as the bolts are solid.
The fan isn't running at the moment but I see what you mean. Causing an obstruction of airflow?
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 10:26
Really! I feel bad is I recommended it. Mine was tricky to get on but it fits on fairly well. The old manifold bracket was in the way for my and I need to get it on the ramps to take it off as the bolts are solid.
The fan isn't running at the moment but I see what you mean. Causing an obstruction of airflow?
Don't feel bad! It's a good looking bit of kit but the way the turbo sits on the SP240 kit just doesn't seem to lend itself to a turbo blanket. Will keep trying though. I think I can get it on from underneath the car.
And yes, obstruction to the usual flow of air out of the bay through the top grill
Ahh I see. I've no experience with blankets but that one does seem alright. Pity about the fitting.
I had to take the sprigs under the wastegate connecting rod to stop It fouling.
The next drive I have will be to Cambridge so unless I do a test run before then I'll have to just roll with it.
I might do a test run though just to see how it is affecting it.
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 09:50
I wonder whether having the fan there is actually making it worse at speed.
Can you remove it and try again?
We tried to put the turbo blanket over the teeny tiny t2559 and couldn't get it on. Was hoping to present a bit data for this thread as we have a long drive this weekend.
Bugger I remember not being able to get mine on either.
Thought I was just being stupid.
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 11:33
Ahh I see. I've no experience with blankets but that one does seem alright. Pity about the fitting.
I had to take the sprigs under the wastegate connecting rod to stop It fouling.
The next drive I have will be to Cambridge so unless I do a test run before then I'll have to just roll with it.
I might do a test run though just to see how it is affecting it.
If it were using a MAF I wouldn't worry at all. But because he'll be putting together a VE table, it's very dependent on IAT. If he puts the VE table at a base temp of 40 degrees, it can run into some issues when ambient is a lot cooler.
Mind, there's a lot to done with the IAT compensation tables. So it's not the end of the world.
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 25, 2018, 13:41
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 09:50
I wonder whether having the fan there is actually making it worse at speed.
Can you remove it and try again?
We tried to put the turbo blanket over the teeny tiny t2559 and couldn't get it on. Was hoping to present a bit data for this thread as we have a long drive this weekend.
Bugger I remember not being able to get mine on either.
Thought I was just being stupid.
The turbine is flippin tiny on that turbo isn't it? Such a shame haha. Cute little thing
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 13:51
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 11:33
Ahh I see. I've no experience with blankets but that one does seem alright. Pity about the fitting.
I had to take the sprigs under the wastegate connecting rod to stop It fouling.
The next drive I have will be to Cambridge so unless I do a test run before then I'll have to just roll with it.
I might do a test run though just to see how it is affecting it.
If it were using a MAF I wouldn't worry at all. But because he'll be putting together a VE table, it's very dependent on IAT. If he puts the VE table at a base temp of 40 degrees, it can run into some issues when ambient is a lot cooler.
Mind, there's a lot to done with the IAT compensation tables. So it's not the end of the world.
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 25, 2018, 13:41
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 09:50
I wonder whether having the fan there is actually making it worse at speed.
Can you remove it and try again?
We tried to put the turbo blanket over the teeny tiny t2559 and couldn't get it on. Was hoping to present a bit data for this thread as we have a long drive this weekend.
Bugger I remember not being able to get mine on either.
Thought I was just being stupid.
The turbine is flippin tiny on that turbo isn't it? Such a shame haha. Cute little thing
Ahhh bugger it. I'll just see what Greg can do. He's the Guru after All.
How big is the 2559 compressor in comparison to my 2554 then? Is the number any Relation to size?
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 13:58
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 13:51
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 11:33
Ahh I see. I've no experience with blankets but that one does seem alright. Pity about the fitting.
I had to take the sprigs under the wastegate connecting rod to stop It fouling.
The next drive I have will be to Cambridge so unless I do a test run before then I'll have to just roll with it.
I might do a test run though just to see how it is affecting it.
If it were using a MAF I wouldn't worry at all. But because he'll be putting together a VE table, it's very dependent on IAT. If he puts the VE table at a base temp of 40 degrees, it can run into some issues when ambient is a lot cooler.
Mind, there's a lot to done with the IAT compensation tables. So it's not the end of the world.
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 25, 2018, 13:41
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 09:50
I wonder whether having the fan there is actually making it worse at speed.
Can you remove it and try again?
We tried to put the turbo blanket over the teeny tiny t2559 and couldn't get it on. Was hoping to present a bit data for this thread as we have a long drive this weekend.
Bugger I remember not being able to get mine on either.
Thought I was just being stupid.
The turbine is flippin tiny on that turbo isn't it? Such a shame haha. Cute little thing
Ahhh bugger it. I'll just see what Greg can do. He's the Guru after All.
How big is the 2559 compressor in comparison to my 2554 then? Is the number any Relation to size?
It's the size of the exducer on the compressor. So, it only tells about 20% of the story.
They're certainly not far from each other but the gt2554r is vastly superior in pretty much every way other than overall flow capability
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 14:58
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 13:58
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 13:51
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 11:33
Ahh I see. I've no experience with blankets but that one does seem alright. Pity about the fitting.
I had to take the sprigs under the wastegate connecting rod to stop It fouling.
The next drive I have will be to Cambridge so unless I do a test run before then I'll have to just roll with it.
I might do a test run though just to see how it is affecting it.
If it were using a MAF I wouldn't worry at all. But because he'll be putting together a VE table, it's very dependent on IAT. If he puts the VE table at a base temp of 40 degrees, it can run into some issues when ambient is a lot cooler.
Mind, there's a lot to done with the IAT compensation tables. So it's not the end of the world.
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 25, 2018, 13:41
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 09:50
I wonder whether having the fan there is actually making it worse at speed.
Can you remove it and try again?
We tried to put the turbo blanket over the teeny tiny t2559 and couldn't get it on. Was hoping to present a bit data for this thread as we have a long drive this weekend.
Bugger I remember not being able to get mine on either.
Thought I was just being stupid.
The turbine is flippin tiny on that turbo isn't it? Such a shame haha. Cute little thing
Ahhh bugger it. I'll just see what Greg can do. He's the Guru after All.
How big is the 2559 compressor in comparison to my 2554 then? Is the number any Relation to size?
It's the size of the exducer on the compressor. So, it only tells about 20% of the story.
They're certainly not far from each other but the gt2554r is vastly superior in pretty much every way other than overall flow capability
I'll have a little research then. That's nice to know though. Seems to be spoiling better with the blanket on but that might be a placebo.
Doubt it. That's a well-known benefit of using a blanket apparently
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 15:14
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 14:58
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 13:58
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 13:51
Quote from: dan944 on June 25, 2018, 11:33
Ahh I see. I've no experience with blankets but that one does seem alright. Pity about the fitting.
I had to take the sprigs under the wastegate connecting rod to stop It fouling.
The next drive I have will be to Cambridge so unless I do a test run before then I'll have to just roll with it.
I might do a test run though just to see how it is affecting it.
If it were using a MAF I wouldn't worry at all. But because he'll be putting together a VE table, it's very dependent on IAT. If he puts the VE table at a base temp of 40 degrees, it can run into some issues when ambient is a lot cooler.
Mind, there's a lot to done with the IAT compensation tables. So it's not the end of the world.
Quote from: 1979scotte on June 25, 2018, 13:41
Quote from: shnazzle on June 25, 2018, 09:50
I wonder whether having the fan there is actually making it worse at speed.
Can you remove it and try again?
We tried to put the turbo blanket over the teeny tiny t2559 and couldn't get it on. Was hoping to present a bit data for this thread as we have a long drive this weekend.
Bugger I remember not being able to get mine on either.
Thought I was just being stupid.
The turbine is flippin tiny on that turbo isn't it? Such a shame haha. Cute little thing
Ahhh bugger it. I'll just see what Greg can do. He's the Guru after All.
How big is the 2559 compressor in comparison to my 2554 then? Is the number any Relation to size?
It's the size of the exducer on the compressor. So, it only tells about 20% of the story.
They're certainly not far from each other but the gt2554r is vastly superior in pretty much every way other than overall flow capability
I'll have a little research then. That's nice to know though. Seems to be spoiling better with the blanket on but that might be a placebo.
Hmmm. I feel because I read that I may be looking for it though. Although i was getting chatter driving out of my garden lol.
Interested to find out more about the blanket when you get it to fit
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Smcknighty on June 25, 2018, 17:25
Interested to find out more about the blanket when you get it to fit
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can (just about) touch the turbo blanket after a long drive. I think it increases spool rate and bay temps are definitely lower.
So some data from the emu.
Whilst on the rolling road, in 30degree ambient temps. Max iats of 50.
Driving back from rrr at 2000hrs the same evening. Cruising at 3krpm 34 degrees. Sometimes as low as 32.
That's not bad I reckon. I have one last thing to do which will be done tomorrow and I'll see how she runs then.
Side note. Max coolant temps were 91. Fan was barely on and Greg commented how good the coolant temps were. Think the extra oil capacity really helps.
Sorry, I don't have data for the C2 MR-S.
Quote from: dan944 on June 23, 2018, 11:09I think I should get some decent flow through it with the scoop. We'll see.
I'd recommend staying scoopless every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I've had waaay better performance
and handling since a flooded road inadvertently ripped my scoop off. It did save me from serious injury by buckling and acting as a rudder but that's another story!
In the days when the scoop was there, I was driving around with an unwanted and unpredictable airbrake and a squirrely back end. Not nice under boost. Without it, the '2 had so much more go and better handling.
I concluded that an IC placed at the rear of a moving '2 was already getting plenty of squished under-car air whizzing up through it. The scoop just introduced a load of undesirable problems that negated it being there, and then some.
As for heatsoak when you're sitting in traffic and pootling ..... it'll be there to bug you whether you do or you don't.
All IMHO but worth thinking about......IMHO ;)
Of course, if you've already scooped and I've missed it and you're happy with it ...... well dinky do!
Sorry for the topic drift.
Quote from: spit on July 5, 2018, 19:56
Sorry, I don't have data for the C2 MR-S.
Quote from: dan944 on June 23, 2018, 11:09I think I should get some decent flow through it with the scoop. We'll see.
I'd recommend staying scoopless every day of the week and twice on Sundays. I've had waaay better performance and handling since a flooded road inadvertently ripped my scoop off. It did save me from serious injury by buckling and acting as a rudder but that's another story!
In the days when the scoop was there, I was driving around with an unwanted and unpredictable airbrake and a squirrely back end. Not nice under boost. Without it, the '2 had so much more go and better handling.
I concluded that an IC placed at the rear of a moving '2 was already getting plenty of squished under-car air whizzing up through it. The scoop just introduced a load of undesirable problems that negated it being there, and then some.
As for heatsoak when you're sitting in traffic and pootling ..... it'll be there to bug you whether you do or you don't.
All IMHO but worth thinking about......IMHO ;)
Of course, if you've already scooped and I've missed it and you're happy with it ...... well dinky do!
Sorry for the topic drift.
Not at all. I love input. I think I kinda get what ya mean about the twitchy butt. I'm due an alignment so put it down to that tbh.
Will see how it goes then I'll remove to see if it actually makes a difference.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180710/bdc16a850fc5c5bf0a0136a1c3bd8c17.jpg)
Made some tweaks to the scoop again and added a rubber seal to fill the gap between the scoop and the IC. Made a bit of a difference. Under a fair bit of boost at the 30 ish degrees ambient yesterday Max of 49.
Cruising at 70, 39 degrees.
I can live with these kinds of figures but will see what big Greg says.
Can you post some pics of the setup?