Discuss
Zorro wears a hat and a mask Hamish wears a kilt?
Zorro has 1 horse power Hamish has 138?
I'm serious! I'm putting together my shopping list. No time for jokes you peasants!
I have to donate all my organs for the Zero and the Hamish looks well-made.
Is it worth it?
Surely the discussion should be zero Vs PPE Vs obx?
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Quote from: jvanzyl on July 12, 2018, 20:08
Surely the discussion should be zero Vs PPE Vs obx?
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No because ppe is too fussy and I'm not Bill Gates and OBX doesn't look any better than that Hamish
Group buy on zero then???
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Quote from: shnazzle on July 12, 2018, 19:59
I'm serious! I'm putting together my shopping list. No time for jokes you peasants!
I have to donate all my organs for the Zero and the Hamish looks well-made.
Is it worth it?
The zero must be cheap then :-)
Are we going to have a "Dutch" auction then, better start thinking up some reserve prices then Patrick 8) us old peasants could do with some younger spare parts ;)
Quote from: jvanzyl on July 12, 2018, 20:33
Group buy on zero then???
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I'm in (at the right price ;) )
Sooo... Hamish vs zero?
We all know zero is better, but why and how?
I've got a Hamish, fitted it last August if my photo album is anything to go by. Quite a few fitting issues with it but it went on eventually and does the job well enough. Only done about 4 thousand miles with it so that's about all I can offer.
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Oh and as an addendum, everytime I see a Toyosport come up for sale for £100 I nearly buy it, just in case.
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That's very odd as the Hamish I've heard are generally better regarded than the Toyo
But then lots of people run the Toyo...
But then... The Zero is known to be one of the best of the best.
What I need to know is if the Zero is worth the additional 280 quid. I can get 3 Hamish's for the price of one Zero
Yeah, unfortunately it's something you're going to struggle to get any kind of like for like comparisons with. Unless you can persuade someone with stage 1 cams and a zero to test run a Hamish for you...
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I guess the science will have to do for now.
The Zero is equal length. Internals are smooth as butter.
If we're talking squeezing out 2 extra hp, you can keep it.
If we're talking a smoother and flatter torque with a higher peak than stock (assuming the other odds) then it may very well be worth it
Well there's someone not to far from me has been building some nice, custom jobs of late, if you ordered one now you might just get it by the time you're ready for it.
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 12, 2018, 21:39
Well there's someone not to far from me has been building some nice, custom jobs of late, if you ordered one now you might just get it by the time you're ready for it.
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Tell me more
Quote from: shnazzle on July 12, 2018, 21:40
Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 12, 2018, 21:39
Well there's someone not to far from me has been building some nice, custom jobs of late, if you ordered one now you might just get it by the time you're ready for it.
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Tell me more
Steve Norris, I know he's done a few bespoke manifolds on recent builds, wether he could replicate a Zero style one is another question though.
But you can always ask, only not at the moment as he's not here, much like the parts I wanted for Silverstone next weekend...
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For me.
Any excuse to wear a skirt i meant kilt
Zorst wise. No idea.
Looking through Robs Dyno's after the Zero manifold fitted went from 148.7 BHP to 157.4 BHP
Then after Crower Cams to 167.6 BHP
Then PPE induction to 171 BHP
Note it was mapped at each change
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/67b9449f975504792e3344f1ed3fb655.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/b188b628dd39dc83827bbe0a51b45dd8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/6bea1ca5b4ae0be1f7b46ac1738219d0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/c6f68cb2faa1fc0b1cd7a83021b015f2.jpg)
Quote from: Bernie on July 12, 2018, 22:12
Looking through Robs Dyno's after the Zero manifold fitted went from 148.7 BHP to 157.4 BHP
Then after Crower Cams to 167.6 BHP
Then PPE induction to 171 BHP
Note it was mapped at each change
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/67b9449f975504792e3344f1ed3fb655.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/b188b628dd39dc83827bbe0a51b45dd8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/6bea1ca5b4ae0be1f7b46ac1738219d0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/c6f68cb2faa1fc0b1cd7a83021b015f2.jpg)
What was giving you the starting 148 Bernie on the standard set up? Just the piggy back?
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That's really helpful Bernie thanks. Not just for the manifold but also the stg1 and standalone
Well, it looks waaay too early to judge a three way Norris / Zero / Hamish manifold shoot out, so returning to the more known quantities.
Having already gutted my stock manifold, I can't see any compelling reason to remove the stock manifold again and fit a Hamish / Che / Toyosports.
I just don't see anything to get excited about.
A Zero, I can get excited about (but maybe I'm deluded :)). )
In the words of the wise wabbit :
quote author=Wabbitkilla link=topic=48555.msg561525#msg561525 date=1392895379]
I would need to use Google translate to speak French so I'll do my best with understandable English.
I have had both manifolds on my car as you can see from the performance thread.
The Che manifold is good for removing the pre-catalysts and not keeping the chambers where the pre-cats were. It is broadly based on the TRD manifold but a lot less expensive. It claims to be stainless steel, which the pipework is but the flanges are mild steel. The pipework is a similar diameter as the original manifold, it fits in exactly the same space with all the same connecting points. There are also some of them where the O2 sensor bungs are very poor quality resulting in poorly fitting sensors, it is not unknown for a sensor to get blown out. There are some problems with them, sometimes they need to be stressed to get into position, and they can fracture if the bottom brackets and not used to brace the manifold on the engine block. Power is not improved without a piggy back ecu or standalone but there is marginally more torque and a better sound.
The Zero manifold is very different, It is not a copy of anything else. The tubes are of a larger diameter and stronger stainless steel, their routing is much smoother than the Che manifold and original. Connections are welded at a much narrower angle and the internals are ground smoothly removing weld edges and troughs. The manifold fits in exactly the same space as the original and is a 4-2 with the same connecting flanges. There are brackets for the bracing at the bottom of the engine block, they are not very robust and can break off with vibration and stress, however the manifold is so strong that it hasn't caused a problem so far. The manifold does improve both torque and power output positively even without an ecu modification, though obviously to make the most of it tuning is your best option.
Overall I recommend the Zero manifold as it is much better quality and gives performance improvements you should be able to feel. It depends how much you feel about the car and performance, sometimes it is worth paying more for better.
For a true 4-1 manifold and exhaust you would need to look at the PPE products and their OBX copies, but they have a tendency to make the engine much more peaky, i.e. Outright power increase, but torque sacrificed meaning you driving in lower gears revving the engine more.
[/quote]
Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 12, 2018, 22:24
Quote from: Bernie on July 12, 2018, 22:12
Looking through Robs Dyno's after the Zero manifold fitted went from 148.7 BHP to 157.4 BHP
Then after Crower Cams to 167.6 BHP
Then PPE induction to 171 BHP
Note it was mapped at each change
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/67b9449f975504792e3344f1ed3fb655.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/b188b628dd39dc83827bbe0a51b45dd8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/6bea1ca5b4ae0be1f7b46ac1738219d0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/c6f68cb2faa1fc0b1cd7a83021b015f2.jpg)
What was giving you the starting 148 Bernie on the standard set up? Just the piggy back?
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Blueflame custom exhaust, sportscat and Apexi Power FC ECU
Quote from: Bernie on July 12, 2018, 22:43
Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 12, 2018, 22:24
Quote from: Bernie on July 12, 2018, 22:12
Looking through Robs Dyno's after the Zero manifold fitted went from 148.7 BHP to 157.4 BHP
Then after Crower Cams to 167.6 BHP
Then PPE induction to 171 BHP
Note it was mapped at each change
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/67b9449f975504792e3344f1ed3fb655.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/b188b628dd39dc83827bbe0a51b45dd8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/6bea1ca5b4ae0be1f7b46ac1738219d0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/c6f68cb2faa1fc0b1cd7a83021b015f2.jpg)
What was giving you the starting 148 Bernie on the standard set up? Just the piggy back?
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Blueflame custom exhaust, sportscat and Apexi Power FC ECU
Cheers, did the lighter flywheel make any difference on the dynos or is that mainly a weight reducing aid/benefit to free revving?
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 12, 2018, 22:47
Quote from: Bernie on July 12, 2018, 22:43
Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 12, 2018, 22:24
Quote from: Bernie on July 12, 2018, 22:12
Looking through Robs Dyno's after the Zero manifold fitted went from 148.7 BHP to 157.4 BHP
Then after Crower Cams to 167.6 BHP
Then PPE induction to 171 BHP
Note it was mapped at each change
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/67b9449f975504792e3344f1ed3fb655.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/b188b628dd39dc83827bbe0a51b45dd8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/6bea1ca5b4ae0be1f7b46ac1738219d0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/c6f68cb2faa1fc0b1cd7a83021b015f2.jpg)
What was giving you the starting 148 Bernie on the standard set up? Just the piggy back?
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Blueflame custom exhaust, sportscat and Apexi Power FC ECU
Cheers, did the lighter flywheel make any difference on the dynos or is that mainly a weight reducing aid/benefit to free revving?
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I spoke with Rob after I purchased the car and the Fidanza Flywheel was the next mod he was going to do if he still had it so I got one installed by Matt P
Never got it dyno'd after was just more the weight and free revving aspect
Quote from: Bernie on July 12, 2018, 22:50
Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 12, 2018, 22:47
Quote from: Bernie on July 12, 2018, 22:43
Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 12, 2018, 22:24
Quote from: Bernie on July 12, 2018, 22:12
Looking through Robs Dyno's after the Zero manifold fitted went from 148.7 BHP to 157.4 BHP
Then after Crower Cams to 167.6 BHP
Then PPE induction to 171 BHP
Note it was mapped at each change
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/67b9449f975504792e3344f1ed3fb655.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/b188b628dd39dc83827bbe0a51b45dd8.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/6bea1ca5b4ae0be1f7b46ac1738219d0.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180712/c6f68cb2faa1fc0b1cd7a83021b015f2.jpg)
What was giving you the starting 148 Bernie on the standard set up? Just the piggy back?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Blueflame custom exhaust, sportscat and Apexi Power FC ECU
Cheers, did the lighter flywheel make any difference on the dynos or is that mainly a weight reducing aid/benefit to free revving?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I spoke with Rob after I purchased the car and the Fidanza Flywheel was the next mod he was going to do if he still had it so I got one installed by Matt P
Never got it dyno'd after was just more the weight and free revving aspect
Thanks again, definitely all good food for thought, much the same as Patrick for me really it'll all come down to what's the most cost effective way of going about it.
I've already got the Hamish manifold and a Fox twin and was planning on a new cat for the MOT in December but now it's going to be SORNED and rebuilt over winter it's the perfect time to do it all. Subject to costs.
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From what I've seen there seem to be plenty of opinions on here that the Hamish doesn't make more power than standard.
The Zero does look like a great bit of kit and probably does make a noticeable improvement to performance.
I reckon the only real tuning potential there is consists of; ECU, cams, exhaust, compression ratio and ported head (plus big bore but that's very pricey).
In terms of the potential for NA power increases I would say anything that makes a noticeable improvement to power is worth having.
I vote for the Zero.
I suspect the best setup in terms of VFM is stage 1 cams, Zero exhaust plus catback, maf mod and a bit of porting if you can run to it. This saves the cost of an ECU and mapping and should give a totally reliable engine.
I second that- not wishing to compromise on the interior etc but weight saving will clearly make a big difference...
TTE exhausts are Heavy! My cobra is not loud at all and it's really light...
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Chances that's the TTE will be kept are slim to be honest. It is monstrously heavy and doesn't even flow that well.
It sounds like we all agree that the Zero is worth the money. Bernie's graphs suggest the same.
Cash the TTE in for the same price as a Zero, you know it makes sense, I've got my old standard back box still and you're welcome to it to keep you going until you get a replacement [emoji23]
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 13, 2018, 12:38
Cash the TTE in for the same price as a Zero, you know it makes sense, I've got my old standard back box still and you're welcome to it to keep you going until you get a replacement [emoji23]
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I know the TTEs are going for a lot these days but not 400 quid haha.
Thanks for the offer. I'd probably just do it all in one go though.
It might be worth talking to Steve Norris about a whole system. I am very happy with mine.
Quote from: mikek on July 13, 2018, 18:20
It might be worth talking to Steve Norris about a whole system. I am very happy with mine.
Good shout. If he can do something similar to the Zero (equal length, wider pipes) then it might definitely be an option. Especially if I can sell my TTE to recoup costs.
Quote from: shnazzle on July 13, 2018, 13:05
Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 13, 2018, 12:38
Cash the TTE in for the same price as a Zero, you know it makes sense, I've got my old standard back box still and you're welcome to it to keep you going until you get a replacement [emoji23]
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I know the TTEs are going for a lot these days but not 400 quid haha.
Thanks for the offer. I'd probably just do it all in one go though.
Yeah, I miss read your original post about the "extra" £280, I assumed you meant on top of the price of the cams etc. Didn't realise the Zero was £400 plus until I looked at them earlier today [emoji23].
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Quote from: shnazzle on July 13, 2018, 18:23
Quote from: mikek on July 13, 2018, 18:20
It might be worth talking to Steve Norris about a whole system. I am very happy with mine.
Good shout. If he can do something similar to the Zero (equal length, wider pipes) then it might definitely be an option. Especially if I can sell my TTE to recoup costs.
Cue the queue for dibs!
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 13, 2018, 18:40
Quote from: shnazzle on July 13, 2018, 18:23
Quote from: mikek on July 13, 2018, 18:20
It might be worth talking to Steve Norris about a whole system. I am very happy with mine.
Good shout. If he can do something similar to the Zero (equal length, wider pipes) then it might definitely be an option. Especially if I can sell my TTE to recoup costs.
Cue the queue for dibs!
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I will have my TTE up for sale soon - think someone called dibs on mine about 3 months ago lol
Anyone got a link to zero you keep speaking of?
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Quote from: ilovejapcrap on July 24, 2018, 21:11
Anyone got a link to zero you keep speaking of?
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https://www.zeroexhausts.co.uk/products.htm
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I have now acquired an equal length manifold, looks to be handmade, never seen anything like it but seems to be a long tube header which should make a difference vs stock - no markings on it and it might be a one off race manifold.
Quote from: m1tch on July 27, 2018, 07:53
I have now acquired an equal length manifold, looks to be handmade, never seen anything like it but seems to be a long tube header which should make a difference vs stock - no markings on it and it might be a one off race manifold.
Pictures please!! :-)
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Quote from: m1tch on July 27, 2018, 07:53
I have now acquired an equal length manifold, looks to be handmade, never seen anything like it but seems to be a long tube header which should make a difference vs stock - no markings on it and it might be a one off race manifold.
Is that the one Dick was selling on FB?
Quote from: tricky1138 on July 27, 2018, 08:42
Quote from: m1tch on July 27, 2018, 07:53
I have now acquired an equal length manifold, looks to be handmade, never seen anything like it but seems to be a long tube header which should make a difference vs stock - no markings on it and it might be a one off race manifold.
Is that the one Dick was setting on FB?
That's the one :)
For those of us not on FB... Could we get a pic?
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Quote from: jvanzyl on July 27, 2018, 12:02
For those of us not on FB... Could we get a pic?
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Just sorting out the photo now - its too big to upload on here so needing to resize etc.
Quote from: m1tch on July 27, 2018, 12:01
Quote from: tricky1138 on July 27, 2018, 08:42
Quote from: m1tch on July 27, 2018, 07:53
I have now acquired an equal length manifold, looks to be handmade, never seen anything like it but seems to be a long tube header which should make a difference vs stock - no markings on it and it might be a one off race manifold.
Is that the one Dick was selling on FB?
That's the one :)
Nearly bought that myself. Be interested to see if it makes a difference!
Quote from: jvanzyl on July 27, 2018, 12:02
For those of us not on FB... Could we get a pic?
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Photo attached - not the best but you get the idea :)
Quote from: tricky1138 on July 27, 2018, 12:05
Quote from: m1tch on July 27, 2018, 12:01
Quote from: tricky1138 on July 27, 2018, 08:42
Quote from: m1tch on July 27, 2018, 07:53
I have now acquired an equal length manifold, looks to be handmade, never seen anything like it but seems to be a long tube header which should make a difference vs stock - no markings on it and it might be a one off race manifold.
Is that the one Dick was selling on FB?
That's the one :)
Nearly bought that myself. Be interested to see if it makes a difference!
Indeed, I need to get an O2 bung welded into the main cat just before it so I can get a correct AFR, plan is to get a replacement cat from Cat2u (or see if I can get a bung welded in the current one) and fit this up - I can then do some drag runs and see if it makes a difference with the TTE exhaust, and then with the lightweight exhaust I also have.
Quote from: m1tch on July 27, 2018, 12:06
Quote from: jvanzyl on July 27, 2018, 12:02
For those of us not on FB... Could we get a pic?
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Photo attached - not the best but you get the idea :)
Shame it appears they have just merged the pipes together where it bolts onto the cat, if I have seen it properly. This loses the benefit of the negative pressure waves that should arise from the longer equal length pipes. It should incorporate separate collectors at that point.
The Zero appears to have these which is why it has welds where the individual pipes join into the sections that merge and then fasten onto the flange for the cat. This means the collector section is a larger diameter than the manifold pipes themselves and that's what creates the negative pressure waves if it's all designed correctly.
https://www.zeroexhausts.co.uk/images/gallery/large-MK3-MR2-Roadster-2.jpg
Same with the PPE:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mrs+ppe+headers&client=tablet-android-pega&prmd=svin&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRot6AqL_cAhXqIcAKHW1OAhAQ_AUIEygD&biw=600&bih=960&dpr=2#imgrc=XbT6CfOIqT_8CM:
Quote from: lamcote on July 27, 2018, 13:02
Quote from: m1tch on July 27, 2018, 12:06
Quote from: jvanzyl on July 27, 2018, 12:02
For those of us not on FB... Could we get a pic?
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Photo attached - not the best but you get the idea :)
Shame it appears they have just merged the pipes together where it bolts onto the cat, if I have seen it properly. This loses the benefit of the negative pressure waves that should arise from the longer equal length pipes. It should incorporate separate collectors at that point.
The Zero appears to have these which is why it has welds where the individual pipes join into the sections that merge and then fasten onto the flange for the cat. This means the collector section is a larger diameter than the manifold pipes themselves and that's what creates the negative pressure waves if it's all designed correctly.
https://www.zeroexhausts.co.uk/images/gallery/large-MK3-MR2-Roadster-2.jpg
Same with the PPE:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=mrs+ppe+headers&client=tablet-android-pega&prmd=svin&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRot6AqL_cAhXqIcAKHW1OAhAQ_AUIEygD&biw=600&bih=960&dpr=2#imgrc=XbT6CfOIqT_8CM:
The manifold I have is a 4-2-1 manifold, same as the Zero, except the Zero manifold joins the pair of cylinder slightly higher up meaning the O2 bungs can be fitted. My manifold still has 2 cylinders going through each side of the flange leading into the Y pipe before the main cat.
The point is the lack of collectors though. As far as I can see each pair of pipes just merge together prior to the cat flange, with no collector element. Once they merge together like that the potential benefits are gone.
Never mind that! Look at the length of those runners!
Sweet jebus
Quote from: shnazzle on July 27, 2018, 15:38
Never mind that! Look at the length of those runners!
Sweet jebus
Its a bit ridiculous which is why I needed them lol :D will be interesting to see how the engine sounds vs the stock decat manifold I have.
I'm sure it will still be better than the standard manifold.
Quote from: lamcote on July 27, 2018, 17:50
I'm sure it will still be better than the standard manifold.
Absolutely. It's probably not far off the ppe length
The more I look at the Zero the more I like it, go on shnazzle take the plunge and let us know how good it is.
I decided to go Zero a few months back, no regrets.
Spoke to Kevin at Zero (very friendly) had to wait a couple of weeks whilst it was made. It's a work of automotive art and a real credit to Kevin.
The finish was perfect and matched up to the Toyota parts easily. The only downside (maybe) is the manifold to cat, the Toyota 2 ring gaskets won't fit so you either source a gasket or use sealant.
I went sealant
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Granville-0456-200ml-Instant-Gasket/dp/B006HFMAJQ
Says it's O2 safe, no problems so far.
Definitely louder than standard, and car seems perkier
I also believe they do a 2zz version
You also have to factor into the price buying an extra long 02 sensor from the celica
Hi, Unaware of this thread, I rang Zero yesterday. A couple of things: the price I was quoted was 396 + 15 GBP carriage, but no VAT as he isn't registered. Also he said he had had an enquiry for a group buy, from he thought the MR2 Owners club but couldn't remember exactly, but then thought it might be here, so suggested I might like to follow that up before buying off him.
Nigel
Quote from: furbern on August 8, 2018, 09:53
Hi, Unaware of this thread, I rang Zero yesterday. A couple of things: the price I was quoted was 396 + 15 GBP carriage, but no VAT as he isn't registered. Also he said he had had an enquiry for a group buy, from he thought the MR2 Owners club but couldn't remember exactly, but then thought it might be here, so suggested I might like to follow that up before buying off him.
Nigel
Nice one Nigel. That is indeed the case.
I sent an email asking him about group buy.
the fact that he mentioned it gives me hope. Happy for you to continue the conversation and see what he can offer
Yes he implied that responding to emails was not his favourite thing to do, but said he would be responding (probably, eventually). And yes once I had had a lie down after I heard the price I am interested in a group buy. The heat shield that is shown on the web site isn't included as he said it vibrated and broke the brackets off so there wasn't much point, but thought a ceramic coating would be a good idea (but that would probably make it worth more than the rest of the car). Have we any idea how many interested parties there are?
Details here:
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=65779.0
I'd say about 5 solids and a few maybes?
Might be worth putting out an announcement to see if there are any other 2zz people who want a proper manifold?
Also another possible is seeing if the FB crowd are game if we need to bump numbers up..
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Quote from: furbern on August 8, 2018, 11:17
Yes he implied that responding to emails was not his favourite thing to do, but said he would be responding (probably, eventually). And yes once I had had a lie down after I heard the price I am interested in a group buy. The heat shield that is shown on the web site isn't included as he said it vibrated and broke the brackets off so there wasn't much point, but thought a ceramic coating would be a good idea (but that would probably make it worth more than the rest of the car). Have we any idea how many interested parties there are?
Shame about the heat shield as it's lovely and shiny but you've got to admire his honesty in saying that.
I'm a solid.
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I should have mentioned too that the price etc I mentioned was for a 1ZZ manifold. He asked me was it for 1ZZ or 2ZZ so they must do them, but I didn't inquire about 2ZZ. I think at the moment I am a definite maybe. The old girl has done 84k, standard except for a markiii pipe and de-precatted, and I am wondering what I will gain by it (not that that has ever stopped me, but I also have 2 daughters and 2 Defenders to support so tend to haemorrhage cash). But I have to admit they are a thing of beauty.
Quote from: Call the midlife! on August 8, 2018, 12:15
Quote from: furbern on August 8, 2018, 11:17
Yes he implied that responding to emails was not his favourite thing to do, but said he would be responding (probably, eventually). And yes once I had had a lie down after I heard the price I am interested in a group buy. The heat shield that is shown on the web site isn't included as he said it vibrated and broke the brackets off so there wasn't much point, but thought a ceramic coating would be a good idea (but that would probably make it worth more than the rest of the car). Have we any idea how many interested parties there are?
Shame about the heat shield as it's lovely and shiny but you've got to admire his honesty in saying that.
I'm a solid.
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@Bernie (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13068) is yours wrapped? It's one thing wrapping my stock de-precat mani and not giving a crap about it but increasing the risk of cracking this thing by wrapping it doesn't sit quite as well with me
A quality manifold is not going to crack as a result of wrapping. Most tales of wrapping causing cracking are not really accurate.
I wrapped a manifold. It cracked. Therefore wrapping causes cracking. Doh!
Quote from: Carolyn on August 8, 2018, 13:24
A quality manifold is not going to crack as a result of wrapping. Most tales of wrapping causing cracking are not really accurate.
I wrapped a manifold. It cracked. Therefore wrapping causes cracking. Doh!
Good news there then :)
Nobody wants a hot engine bay
Now just to find a nice cat to mate up with it
Quote from: shnazzle on August 8, 2018, 13:14
Quote from: Call the midlife! on August 8, 2018, 12:15
Quote from: furbern on August 8, 2018, 11:17
Yes he implied that responding to emails was not his favourite thing to do, but said he would be responding (probably, eventually). And yes once I had had a lie down after I heard the price I am interested in a group buy. The heat shield that is shown on the web site isn't included as he said it vibrated and broke the brackets off so there wasn't much point, but thought a ceramic coating would be a good idea (but that would probably make it worth more than the rest of the car). Have we any idea how many interested parties there are?
Shame about the heat shield as it's lovely and shiny but you've got to admire his honesty in saying that.
I'm a solid.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
@Bernie (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13068) is yours wrapped? It's one thing wrapping my stock de-precat mani and not giving a crap about it but increasing the risk of cracking this thing by wrapping it doesn't sit quite as well with me
Hi Pat
Not wrapped but shiny heat shield that hasn't had that issue
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180808/680c6381d19b1aa947a927896bb01ed3.jpg)
99% sure I want a zero.
100% sure I won't be wrapping or Cera coating it.
A rough average of opinion appears to be that wrapping (or coating) a Mani MAY shorten its life.
Don't think you'll find many people suggesting the opposite (that wrapping can extend life).
Wrapping a mani will certainly expose it to greater extremes of temperature (i.e. it will run hotter but of course still return to ambient) which is generally not desirable for any component.
Chasing fractions of hp at the possible expense of long term reliability is fine for race teams, not so good for a daily driver, so my plan would be to replace my unwrapped (gutted) stock mani with an unwrapped Zero.
Plus I'd much rather be able to SEE the shiny thing I'd just paid lots of dosh for.
It's not for hp chasing to be honest. I do it for cat efficiency. Especially if I'm looking to run 200cell.
But also to keep the engine bay from being roasting.
Fair enough.
The point I was trying to make was it is a practice that has come from racing where budgets and objectives can be somewhat different :)
However if you want to run a smaller cat then - yes, wrapping now makes more sense to me (as in my mind that would be weighing a fear of shortened Zero life against a fear of MOT emissions failure) ;)
Interesting reading through this post, god I remember going through the design process with Kevin, it started with my original cast manifold being sent to him to get the spacing correct, then the goal was to get the pipes as close to equal length as possible and then making collectors as smooth and clean as possible (They have a razor edge profiled into them).
I found that bolting the heat shield together with oversize washers prevented any issues, but I think Keven changed the design of the brackets which gave issues on later manifolds.
It was a great project to get involved with and makes me smile to see it still being discussed / used. :D :D
Enjoy 8)
Rob (FGRob)
Didn't know you were involved in the design! I should have known...
I'm chomping at the bit for mine to arrive. Any day now.
It's was all good fun ;)
Kevin also modified an original Silverstone Performance (Matt) decat pipe to include a 200 CEL cat, which I understand is still performing well - once you get it nice and hot :-X
I think the original Zero manifold went back 2 or 3 times to get it fitting just right.
Rob