edit: thread title changed as it would appear that we've diagnosed it, but I'm still looking for advice...
I apologise in advance as this is one of those irritating list of fairly vague observations that don't make sense and I don't know where to start looking...
I've heard a hissing from somewhere near the back right wheel a few times over the last few days, it's really intermittent and I THINK it starts under heavy 1st/2nd gear acceleration and I think it only starts when accelerating out of right hand corners, but I'm not certain of those trigger events.
There's no change in the car's ability to accelerate, brake or turn and it only lasts 5-10 seconds, but it definitely continues after I've straightened out and stopped accelerating.
I can't even tell if it is air hissing out or something scraping... the first time it happened, I pulled over and had a look at the back right brakes as I was expecting to see some dried leaves wedges in there, although the sound is a little harsher than that... maybe more like some hard plastic caught against the edge of the unsmoothed brake surface.
Considerations:
I know my rear brakes in particular are pretty heavily worn.
My aircon had previously leaked and I had it re-gassed a couple weeks ago (but that's not running at the time of the issue and still running icy cold if I do turn it on). Also it does seem to be related to accelerating and braking.
Any ideas / things to check?
I'm guessing this is something catching on the edge of the back right brake, but I can't see anything loose that might be caught there and why is it so intermittent?!?
Am I just making up reasons to get new brakes?! ;D
Same issue with mine - pretty sure the handbrake isn't releasing fully. Will be investigating this weekend.
hmmm.... this was a good couple of miles after the handbrake had last been on.... and I'm sure if that happens the car gets a lot more tail happy and I was giving it ample opportunity to get tail happy!
I'll try to keep note of any additional symptoms and also preceding actions on my part...
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 20, 2018, 14:13
I can't even tell if it is air hissing out or something scraping... the first time it happened, I pulled over and had a look at the back right brakes as I was expecting to see some dried leaves wedges in there, although the sound is a little harsher than that... maybe more like some hard plastic caught against the edge of the unsmoothed brake surface..........
Any ideas / things to check?
A mate once had this with his AC Cobra - turned out it was the snake complaining about his driving ;D
Next time after pulling over place your hand against the centre of the wheel and compare to the other side rear wheel to see if you can note any difference in temperature. IF both are coolish, then you can proceed to touch BRIEFLY each of the rear discs - again to see if you can note any temperature difference (or if you prefer you could buy an Infra red thermometer from ebay for well under a tenner -link below)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Digital-IR-Infrared-Laser-Thermometer-Temperature-Non-Contact-Handheld-Gun-UK/142759319878?epid=24018110305&hash=item213d1e5946:g:m2QAAOSwLjRa0~zr
Presumably you have alrady checked that the cold tyre pressures are remaining stable ?
Quote from: K T M Rider on July 21, 2018, 10:20
...to see if you can note any temperature difference (or if you prefer you could buy an Infra red thermometer
Presumably you have alrady checked that the cold tyre pressures are remaining stable ?
I'll check the pressures, I think they're usually pretty good... and good idea on the thermometer - I used to REALLY be into PC overclocking, so I've got one, I'll try to remember to keep it in the car...
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 21, 2018, 19:17
Quote from: K T M Rider on July 21, 2018, 10:20
...to see if you can note any temperature difference (or if you prefer you could buy an Infra red thermometer
Presumably you have alrady checked that the cold tyre pressures are remaining stable ?
I'll check the pressures, I think they're usually pretty good... and good idea on the thermometer - I used to REALLY be into PC overclocking, so I've got one, I'll try to remember to keep it in the car...
Still not had a chance to check brake temps as it's REALLY intermittent.... BUT I just checked the leather seats and they're clocking 81C at 3pm this afternoon :o
Okay - heard a faint hiss a few times on the drive home today.... pulled over a few minutes later and the comparison was:
outer edge (hottest spot) of the right disc was clocking >150C
back of the right pad was ~80C
outer edge of the left disk was ~80C
back of the left pad ~50C
I ran back to the right to see how fast they were cooling down and the right was still >130C.
Pretty sure it is the back right disc catching / rubbing slightly...
NEXT QUESTION.... any bets if that's just badly worn discs and pads (which I'm about to replace anyway) or if there's a caliper/a.n.other problem!!
Caliper refurbs are on "the list", but then so is a LOT of stuff and they're not within budget at present, but then equally, I don't want to put on new discs and pads... only to have one of them get eaten by a cranky caliper...
Any suggestions on where to get discs, pads and braided hoses fitted around SW London / Sussex / Surrey?
Brake dust guard loose? (I really have no clue re: things mechanical)
I would think you have a seized caliper. Caliper refurb required.
Quote from: delhusband on July 24, 2018, 00:10
Brake dust guard loose? (I really have no clue re: things mechanical)
Due to take the wheels off on Saturday, I'll have a look then to be sure.
Quote from: mikek on July 24, 2018, 06:36
I would think you have a seized caliper. Caliper refurb required.
Options?
1) Just get a refurbed one or two? I think it was £80 each (at TCB) + fitting.
2) All four? £300 (TCB) + fitting.
3) £550 for a swap with some at BCS, but they do painting and fitting included then... I just need to get a day in Nottingham though :(
Any other suggestions? I want to put new brakes on it really soon (I have the pads, still awaiting the discs), but that's not going to happen when the caliper is on its way out...
Will it just continue to scrub intermittently (a bit of extra heat) or should I expect this to start getting a lot worse?
Could be as simple as sticky sliders and rust-build-up around the pad slots.
A lube and clean-up might well suffice.
I got mine from here (both rears) as I figure they would probably fail at the MOT - worth noting that you don't need to send back your old calipers like other places which means you will also have another set you can refurbish as a spare if needed:
https://brakeparts.co.uk/shop/Toyota/MR2/00-/MR2%20Sports%20Zzw30%201.8%20Roadster/Rear%20-%20Brake%20Calipers%20and%20Wheel%20Cylinders
Quote from: Carolyn on July 24, 2018, 07:29
Could be as simple as sticky sliders and rust-build-up around the pad slots.
A lube and clean-up might well suffice.
Sounds like this to me. Worth winding the piston in and out a couple of times, then go and give the brakes a hammering and see if it comes back.
Quote from: m1tch on July 24, 2018, 07:30
I got mine from here (both rears) as I figure they would probably fail at the MOT - worth noting that you don't need to send back your old calipers like other places which means you will also have another set you can refurbish as a spare if needed:
https://brakeparts.co.uk/shop/Toyota/MR2/00-/MR2%20Sports%20Zzw30%201.8%20Roadster/Rear%20-%20Brake%20Calipers%20and%20Wheel%20Cylinders
Thanks - not heard of Budweg before, but then to be fair I haven't heard of a lot of component manufacturers before unless they're the serious upgrade components (e.g. Brembo, AP, Wilwood)... what are those like? Are they at least OEM quality?
Quote from: Carolyn on July 24, 2018, 07:29
Could be as simple as sticky sliders and rust-build-up around the pad slots.
A lube and clean-up might well suffice.
Thanks - mines only 11yrs old (assuming original) with 60k and very little corrosion on the suspension components, so hopefully this is the case... but that brings me back to the previous question: I'm looking for recommendations on a MR2-sympathetic mechanic in SW London / home counties to put new brakes on and give these calipers a clean and a lube.
Floating calipers with the handbrake in the piston are by no means unique to our cars.
Many 10 - 20 year old cars have such brakes (especially Toyota and Honda).
What you need is good local family operated garage that's been in business for ages, and that comes well recommended. They will doubtless be up to the task.
are these brake specs correct? (I know they had the wrong YS pads listed, so I'm a little concerned about the discs!)
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 24, 2018, 11:23
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 24, 2018, 11:23
Quote from: m1tch on July 24, 2018, 07:30
I got mine from here (both rears) as I figure they would probably fail at the MOT - worth noting that you don't need to send back your old calipers like other places which means you will also have another set you can refurbish as a spare if needed:
https://brakeparts.co.uk/shop/Toyota/MR2/00-/MR2%20Sports%20Zzw30%201.8%20Roadster/Rear%20-%20Brake%20Calipers%20and%20Wheel%20Cylinders
Thanks - not heard of Budweg before, but then to be fair I haven't heard of a lot of component manufacturers before unless they're the serious upgrade components (e.g. Brembo, AP, Wilwood)... what are those like? Are they at least OEM quality?
Thanks - mines only 11yrs old (assuming original) with 60k and very little corrosion on the suspension components, so hopefully this is the case... but that brings me back to the previous question: I'm looking for recommendations on a MR2-sympathetic mechanic in SW London / home counties to put new brakes on and give these calipers a clean and a lube.
Looking at £370 for a set of four (Budweg) calipers... does that sound about right? That's to buy 4 new calipers outright, but Budweg aftermarket items...
TCB are: (2x £72.85 + 2x £83.38 ) + VAT = £374.95.... but that's for refurbished OEM units "on exchange".
Feels quite appealing to get the new ones, get them painted and then take all that in for fitting somewhere.... but how would those Budweg ones compare to OEM?
Quote from: K T M Rider on July 21, 2018, 10:20
Presumably you have alrady checked that the cold tyre pressures are remaining stable ?
Not sure if it was just the slope I parked it on earlier, but back right tyre might also be losing pressure - if it is this, is it just a side effect of the heat fluctuations due to the rubbing brakes or potentially something different? TBH, whenever a park up on the kerb, I always think the lower tyres are losing air and every time I check them, they're fine. I'll check the pressure once it's all cooled down.
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 25, 2018, 20:58
Quote from: K T M Rider on July 21, 2018, 10:20
Presumably you have alrady checked that the cold tyre pressures are remaining stable ?
Not sure if it was just the slope I parked it on earlier, but back right tyre might also be losing pressure - if it is this, is it just a side effect of the heat fluctuations due to the rubbing brakes or potentially something different? TBH, whenever a park up on the kerb, I always think the lower tyres are losing air and every time I check them, they're fine. I'll check the pressure once it's all cooled down.
I think this was just me being paranoid... both rear tyres were 31PSI, so 3PSI low, but that was at 6am this morning and I think I last checked them at 3pm when it was >30C (and at a local garage, so looks like I need to double-check their machine readings).
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 26, 2018, 10:32
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 25, 2018, 20:58
Quote from: K T M Rider on July 21, 2018, 10:20
Presumably you have alrady checked that the cold tyre pressures are remaining stable ?
Not sure if it was just the slope I parked it on earlier, but back right tyre might also be losing pressure - if it is this, is it just a side effect of the heat fluctuations due to the rubbing brakes or potentially something different? TBH, whenever a park up on the kerb, I always think the lower tyres are losing air and every time I check them, they're fine. I'll check the pressure once it's all cooled down.
I think this was just me being paranoid... both rear tyres were 31PSI, so 3PSI low, but that was at 6am this morning and I think I last checked them at 3pm when it was >30C (and at a local garage, so looks like I need to double-check their machine readings).
31 psi is 1lb low - not 3
Quote from: Carolyn on July 26, 2018, 10:41
31 psi is 1lb low - not 3
(facepalm)
Do you know how much smarter I'd be if I used all the information that I have at my disposal (I have those numbers in the glovebox, a photo of that card in the glovebox AND a txt file in my dropbox, synched to the phone)....
Thanks though - a 1PSI drop isn't worth worrying about then!!
I still need to decide on:
1) buy the Budweg calipers.
2) buy OEM refurbed on exchange.
3) chance my arm with a refurb at a mechanics, but risk ruining new discs and pads.
Given the cost, I'm erring toward #3, but haven't got around to contacting the preferred mechanic yet...
Get the sliders lubricated and make sure the pistons aren't stuck and you'll be fine.
I've done loads of brakes on these now and never had to replace a caliper yet.
Quote from: Carolyn on July 26, 2018, 11:22
Get the sliders lubricated and make sure the pistons aren't stuck and you'll be fine.
I've done loads of brakes on these now and never had to replace a caliper yet.
Thanks - given your reputation on here ( :notworthy:)... I'll take that to mean they never have to be replaced! So time to check how good that mechanic is!!
Don't forget to check the wheel bearing for excessive play. If it has excessive movement when in corners can push the disc against the pads also creating drag and heat.
Not a common problem but I have seen it before.
Most likely knackered caliper though.
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 26, 2018, 14:04
Quote from: Carolyn on July 26, 2018, 11:22
Get the sliders lubricated and make sure the pistons aren't stuck and you'll be fine.
I've done loads of brakes on these now and never had to replace a caliper yet.
Thanks - given your reputation on here ( :notworthy:)... I'll take that to mean they never have to be replaced! So time to check how good that mechanic is!!
Never say never!! But I do think simple service and repair is often overlooked because of all the horror stories from folk who just haven't got to grips with them.
As much as we like spending other peoples money on these cars. We also dont like to see money spent unnecessarily.
Start at rhe cheap end and work up.
What C said. Lubricate the sliders with the correct lubricant. Certec (spelling?)
Work the piston in and out and few times.
Correctly adjust hand brake.
Handbrake hasnt been adjusted at the hand brake end prior to the heat problem by any chance?
Cross post with C last post.
As always , thanks guys!
I didn't want to risk saving money on refurbing the calipers, only to have my new discs snad pads trashed AND to find they're all on their way out and need replacing...
Certec? (for lubing)
Also - I'm keen to supply everything they'll need - if I want to provide some decent brake fluid, then what's the recommendation and how much?
Ceratec.
You were close, Jase.
Bahnst: If the garage can't figure out the correct brake fluid, you're in the wrong place.
Quote from: Carolyn on July 26, 2018, 15:53
@BahnStormer (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24604) If the garage can't figure out the correct brake fluid, you're in the wrong place.
Nah - nothing like that, I just want to supply everything - I'm guessing 5.1 brake fluid? Any recommended brands? I got a single 500ml bottle of the MTEC one as I thought I might end up doing this with the assistance of somebody on the forum (and might just need a slight top-up), but once it looked like a bigger/messier/less straight-forward job, I figured I'd get a pro involved. Now I'm thinking they'll want to change the fluid entirely, but I have no idea how much is required and figured I should buy the right stuff if it's all being replaced properly.
RE the Garage - it's fine, they have a great reputation in the area, plus they're really communicative and happy to just offer advice rather than take people's money. e.g. when I'd already had the car fail the MOT elsewhere (the EML light / lambda sensor / emissions mini-saga (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=64800.msg760151#msg760151)) and the first garage just shrugged and said "maybe Cataclean", I found this place and went around and chatted to the owner who apologised for being so busy and offered a lot of the same sort of advice as the forum later gave to me - all for me to look into it for myself - he just suggested that I book the car in (for two weeks' time) and I could cancel if I fixed it myself - which I did :) They were really cool about it all and seemed to know their stuff, so figured I'd send the business their way the next time something came up.
Quote from: Carolyn on July 26, 2018, 15:53
Ceratec.
You were close, Jase.
Still no cigar ;)
BS
Yes for lubing sliders
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 26, 2018, 16:24
Quote from: Carolyn on July 26, 2018, 15:53
@BahnStormer (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=24604) If the garage can't figure out the correct brake fluid, you're in the wrong place.
Nah - nothing like that, I just want to supply everything - I'm guessing 5.1 brake fluid? Any recommended brands? I got a single 500ml bottle of the MTEC one as I thought I might end up doing this with the assistance of somebody on the forum (and might just need a slight top-up), but once it looked like a bigger/messier/less straight-forward job, I figured I'd get a pro involved. Now I'm thinking they'll want to change the fluid entirely, but I have no idea how much is required and figured I should buy the right stuff if it's all being replaced properly.
RE the Garage - it's fine, they have a great reputation in the area, plus they're really communicative and happy to just offer advice rather than take people's money. e.g. when I'd already had the car fail the MOT elsewhere (the EML light / lambda sensor / emissions mini-saga (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=64800.msg760151#msg760151)) and the first garage just shrugged and said "maybe Cataclean", I found this place and went around and chatted to the owner who apologised for being so busy and offered a lot of the same sort of advice as the forum later gave to me - all for me to look into it for myself - he just suggested that I book the car in (for two weeks' time) and I could cancel if I fixed it myself - which I did :) They were really cool about it all and seemed to know their stuff, so figured I'd send the business their way the next time something came up.
Just to be clear - I wasn't asking "how do I work out what brake fluid I have, so I know what to top up"... I now realise you can't just top up with anything if the previous brake fluid was DOT3 or DOT4... I was wanting to know what the recommended brake fluid would be for mostly* stock hardware and fast road / occasional "light" track use?
*stock calipers and stock lines and Goodridge braided hoses, plus the YS pads and MTEC G&D discs (not that the last two should really matter at all!)...
Anything should be fine, I use pagid 5.1 from eurocarparts, cheap enough and fine on track.
You can use anything except DOT 5
DOT 5.1 is fine, probably best.
Thanks guys.... and how much is needed for a full flush and replace?
I used a full litre to do mine, hopefully that's more than enough?
Just in case you do decide to get some refurbed calipers, I think you will find they are alot cheaper from Bigg Red ( prices start at £99 a PAIR ).
However, as Carolyn has said it is also my experience that sticky rear calipers can be revived quite easily just through cleaning and lubing the sliders and brake pad contact points as well as use of a piston wind back tool. I've done this basic brake maintenance on sticky rear calipers on both my current and previous car and in both cases the cars subsequently passed MOTs
Just as a matter of interest, how many hours labour should it be to change discs, pads and swap in braided hoses?