Do you have engine oil &/or gearbox oil coolers? and are the normally in the same place?
I'm about ready to install my new version of the diffuser now and pretty sure I'll at least make the engine side a flat cover. I was thinking if these coolers are used and in the same general place, I could scoop air into that location. Then if I do choose to sell them, it would have other benefits.
I personally try to copy the MR2 race regulations, I figure that if the car can handle that, it can handle track day use. The regs say "Oil coolers are only permitted if standard for the model being raced."
Interested in other opinions though!
Quote from: james_ly on August 21, 2018, 09:22
I personally try to copy the MR2 race regulations, I figure that if the car can handle that, it can handle track day use. The regs say "Oil coolers are only permitted if standard for the model being raced."
Interested in other opinions though!
Funnily enough I came to exactly the same conclusion yesterday when I was reading through the Motorsport thread.
The regs mean no-one uses oil coolers and they all use the standard sump and yet even using R888 tyres they all seem to avoid oil starvation problems.
I reckon as long as you keep the oil topped up you should be fine?
Quote from: lamcote on August 21, 2018, 09:32
Quote from: james_ly on August 21, 2018, 09:22
I personally try to copy the MR2 race regulations, I figure that if the car can handle that, it can handle track day use. The regs say "Oil coolers are only permitted if standard for the model being raced."
Interested in other opinions though!
Funnily enough I came to exactly the same conclusion yesterday when I was reading through the Motorsport thread.
The regs mean no-one uses oil coolers and they all use the standard sump and yet even using R888 tyres they all seem to avoid oil starvation problems.
I reckon as long as you keep the oil topped up you should be fine?
However I remember reading on here that the people that organise the championship rules are the same people who offer engine rebuilding services ;) :D
I don't use any additional cooler, but I do use and EliseParts sump.
Does the job, no issues ever.
Thanks for the info, I won't bother then! haha
I will be running a gearbox cooler but my power level might be slightly higher than most on the forum when its fully built up!
Quote from: Alex Knight on August 21, 2018, 15:23
... EliseParts sump.
I've heard great things about the effectiveness of a slightly larger capacity sump for maintaining oil under heavy load / cornering... I was considering doing one of these soon, before I proceed any further with the turbo...
I've just drawn up the design for a flat undercover that matched up with the diffuser.
The standard engine cover does have one vent and a small scoop. The vent goes to the box and the scoop looks like it goes up between the engine and the box. I've added 2 scoops with a slot to add mesh. Both have an 11 deg rake so it draws air up without separation. One then has a large scoop to push air upto the engine and the other has a small one to deflect up to the box.
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41540310_10160793846040084_7594008903864549376_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=7002b43014daa312f982771fcff192e2&oe=5C1FAF6E)
Quote from: BahnStormer on September 11, 2018, 13:53
Quote from: Alex Knight on August 21, 2018, 15:23
... EliseParts sump.
I've heard great things about the effectiveness of a slightly larger capacity sump for maintaining oil under heavy load / cornering... I was considering doing one of these soon, before I proceed any further with the turbo...
Where might one get one? How much? 8)
I'm taking my car on track and don't fancy risking oil starvation
Quote from: ad_car_08 on September 24, 2018, 22:21
Quote from: BahnStormer on September 11, 2018, 13:53
Quote from: Alex Knight on August 21, 2018, 15:23
... EliseParts sump.
I've heard great things about the effectiveness of a slightly larger capacity sump for maintaining oil under heavy load / cornering... I was considering doing one of these soon, before I proceed any further with the turbo...
Where might one get one? How much? 8)
I'm taking my car on track and don't fancy risking oil starvation
I've not pulled the trigger on this yet, but looking like £400 for a LotusParts one, unless people have any other suggestions?
https://www.eliseparts.com/products/show/32/990/baffled-sump-toyota/
I figure it's a good way of not having to drill the sump for turbo oil as I'm nervous that things could go very wrong, very fast with a regular sump + turbo, especially on a track / sustained enthusiastic cornering....
I'm going to be selling the diffusers, will this too. Just having issues with material ATM. 3mm ABS is just too thick, I can't bend the 11deg angle into it and it warped when I tried to heat it to bend it. It's also expensive.
The alternative 3mm plastic fibre started ok but then warped when I painted it.
I would like 2mm ABS but I can't seem to get that so going back to the 1.5mm ABS (which is what the first diffuser was made from) is a lot more pliable and lighter but obviously thinner
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41936476_10160811759720084_2747933055371968512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&oh=e8c4600f16fcfaaf65d37571e40e1799&oe=5C5760D0)
I ran out of the socket screws to fit it but I have them now so hopefully will have fitted pictures today or tomorrow.
Quote from: ad_car_08 on September 24, 2018, 22:21
Where might one get one? How much? 8)
I'm taking my car on track and don't fancy risking oil starvation
Oil coolers cool the oil, if it's starvation you're worried about you need to baffle the original sump to stop oil sloshing away from the pickup or get a Moroso style baffled sump :)
Quote from: Mr X on September 25, 2018, 09:00
Oil coolers cool the oil, if it's starvation you're worried about you need to baffle the original sump to stop oil sloshing away from the pickup or get a Moroso style baffled sump :)
A higher capacity Aluminium sump (baffled) apparently has a dramatic effect in terms of cooling the oil too: talk to @dan944 (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=14286) about this - apparently two very similar turbo builds were running very different oil temps on the dyno and the only real different between them was one had a larger Aluminium sump... so it's not just saving you from oil starvation.... obviously, there's no guarantee that the one with a regular sump didn't also have something causing excess friction (and more heat), but it seems like a prudent addition to a turbo build that will spend at least SOME time on a track, eventually :)
This is true. It's a combination of a couple of things in my opinion.
Larger surface area to transfer heat.
An extra 2 and a bit litres of oil capacity.
The walls are thinner so I think the heat transfer is better.
It definitely worth the money. I bought the obx one and although I have some seepage from the thread that's down to my crappy prep work.
I'm sure it'll seal up fine.
I'm not denying that bigger sumps made from other materials have some benefit to keeping the oil cooler but that's not the purpose of the thread :)
They will also would never do what a cooler is designed to do.
If the pan doesn't have air flowing over it, you're talking conductive cooling which is the least efficient and only changes through difference of materials.
Active cooling would be blowing air over the pan, this (aside from being more efficient than conductive) would benefit from having air sucked up unseparated from the underside rather than just cutting a hole in the bottom.
Intake temp, turbo efficiency, fuel octane, duty cycle, map, cooling, oil type/weight/manufacture etc all have an effect on combustion temp so also have an effect on oil temp. The only way to be sure is have 1 can with 2 different pans.
I wanted to know who bothers to put an oil/gearbox cooler on as without the correct placement it will suffer from poor efficiency or having to pump it all the way to the front of the car :)
I'm just thinking of ways to make a flat floor better.... Guess I won't know without investing in some temp sensors, airflow meters or running simulations.
That said for oil starvation would be the first concern with the standard sump, not cooling.
Quote from: Mr X on September 25, 2018, 09:00
I'm going to be selling the diffusers, will this too. Just having issues with material ATM. 3mm ABS is just too thick, I can't bend the 11deg angle into it and it warped when I tried to heat it to bend it. It's also expensive.
The alternative 3mm plastic fibre started ok but then warped when I painted it.
I would like 2mm ABS but I can't seem to get that so going back to the 1.5mm ABS (which is what the first diffuser was made from) is a lot more pliable and lighter but obviously thinner
(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41936476_10160811759720084_2747933055371968512_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&oh=e8c4600f16fcfaaf65d37571e40e1799&oe=5C5760D0)
I ran out of the socket screws to fit it but I have them now so hopefully will have fitted pictures today or tomorrow.
Very nice! Just measuring up myself to do the whole underbody inc. front splitter.
Have you considered using HDPE?