My '2 is quite sensitive to bumps at A-road speed, if you hit an undulation, especially on a bend, the car seems to really 'feel' it and feels a bit floaty/unsettled. Is that just the MacPherson setup revealing itself? Is it possibly a sign of old shocks?
Quote from: benjamino on December 28, 2018, 09:09
My '2 is quite sensitive to bumps at A-road speed, if you hit an undulation, especially on a bend, the car seems to really 'feel' it and feels a bit floaty/unsettled. Is that just the MacPherson setup revealing itself? Is it possibly a sign of old shocks?
Sounds like suspension refurb time, what's it got on the clock?
Although first check would be tyre pressures.
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That description does sound like a shock isnt damping as it should.
Can you depress one corner easier than the others or see any weeping from one of the shocks?
Quote from: Call the midlife! on December 28, 2018, 09:28
Quote from: benjamino on December 28, 2018, 09:09
My '2 is quite sensitive to bumps at A-road speed, if you hit an undulation, especially on a bend, the car seems to really 'feel' it and feels a bit floaty/unsettled. Is that just the MacPherson setup revealing itself? Is it possibly a sign of old shocks?
Sounds like suspension refurb time, what's it got on the clock?
Although first check would be tyre pressures.
+1 on the tyre pressures. Easy and free check.
What's the mileage on the car? Have you got any written notification of when the shocks were changed?
When I changed to a slightly higher profile front tyre, I found the car was bump steering at 26 psi in the front. Probably due to more flex in the sidewall.
An increase to 28 psi sorted it out.
Worth trying a couple extra psi? If that makes no difference THEN think about suspension.
What car are you comparing to? Compared to, say, a new 5 series, it's probably going to feel quite lively even with nothing wrong.
Thanks all. 75k miles on the clock - 2004. Not sure if they're original shocks or not. I know one of the rear springs has been replaced. I originally thought this was making it sit unevenly but actually don't think it is. The MOT history shows a rust advisory on the front 'MacPherson struts' - assume that is the shock absorbers themselves. Later years MOT no longer showed this so not sure if the front ones were replaced.
The floaty bump steer effect I'm noticing seems to come from the rear, I think.
Tires are all new - will check pressure again. Will also try and bounce it - couldn't seem to compress it much at all last time I tried this though.
Only comparing to other normal cars - Auris hybrid is our daily driver (the least inspiring car ever!). Last car was a Subaru Forester 2.5 XT (turbo, similar power to weight ratio as the MR2 funnily enough) - massive travel and very well behaved on uneven surfaces!
I was expecting the MR2 to have significant feel and feedback and could easily learn to live with this if it's the way they are. Can't help but wonder if they're like this if they're the way they should be though. Don't really want to drop a grand on new suspension if it won't be much different though!
@benjamino (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=25540) sounds like a mini meet is required so you can compare and contrast others cars to gauge where yours is! ;)
That would be great yeah!
Certainly seems a few question marks regards the suspension.
Based on time and miles. It is due.
No need to drop 1k on it though. (you can easily and more if you want to) set of tein s springs £120ish 4 kybs £100ish per corner. No £s if you are doing the spannering.
Also do budget for a quality geo after. Should give you all the feel and feedback you want.
Just in case missed it, buried in other replies, as well as the pressures, what overall state are the tyres, brand? age? any cracking? matching?
Tyres are all brand new Uniroyal Rainsport 3s. I actually have a set of springs that are in good shape that I got from someone on eBay who changed to lowered. I am happy with spannering myself although will need spring compressors (slightly nervous about that!) I'm happy with stock height. So basically I can grab some KYB shocks, use the new springs I have and then get a geo. To clarify, how does that differ from just getting an alignment from ATS? What do I ask for?
Quote from: benjamino on December 28, 2018, 18:03
That would be great yeah!
There are a couple or members down your way @Chilli Girl (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=15489) @Bernie (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=13068)
;)
I believe you can use the weight of the car as a compressor to avoid using spring compressors, I remember watching a youtube video about it.
Most people also change the rear droplinks when changing the shocks as they can be hard to remove so its easier to buy a set for £35 and change rather than get halfway through the job to have to then wait for a new set to be delivered so they can finish the job.
Quote from: benjamino on December 28, 2018, 19:45
To clarify, how does that differ from just getting an alignment from ATS? What do I ask for?
Depending on the technician can be the difference between night and day.
A lot of places boast using the latest all singing all dancing kit.
Problem is in the capability of the user.
From wiltshire, I would suggest you visit Wheels in motion.
Being aligned is one thing, with these people they will dial in what you want.
You stated you want "feel" and "feedback" they will ask you, how much would you like Sir?
Looking at the suspension kits on mr2-ben. The kits come with new top mounts, insulators etc. Do you think all that is needed or would the main thing be to just replace the shock absorber itself. Seems to add on a chunk in terms of price compared to just the shocks.
I checked the tyre pressures today - they were slightly low so I inflated them to front 28/rear 32 but it still seems a little erratic when cornering on uneven road surfaces.
Quote from: benjamino on December 30, 2018, 18:33
Looking at the suspension kits on mr2-ben. The kits come with new top mounts, insulators etc. Do you think all that is needed or would the main thing be to just replace the shock absorber itself. Seems to add on a chunk in terms of price compared to just the shocks.
I think it depends on how far you're willing to go to chase the problem.
I'm working on the other end of the consumables at the minute (wishbones, TREs, drop links) Mentioned it to my stepdad who asked if I was changing the springs while I had it in pieces, but if I was going down that route, I'd want new top mounts (and then sod it, you may as well do the shocks as well). On the flip side, you're then down over £600 :/
Quote from: Bossworld on December 30, 2018, 20:28
I think it depends on how far you're willing to go to chase the problem.
Yeah exactly - trouble is at this stage I'm not even sure there's anything wrong. People say the suspension is 'due a refresh' at this age so I have FOMO now in case it will be much improved with new stuff! I'll probbaly torment myself until I change it out and then I'll know for sure. I'll start with the shocks by themselves though I think.
Have you had the tracking checked? Could the front be out slightly? How are the bushes and wheel bearings, any play?
If you have a good place that does tracking checks and you tell them the symptoms they may check these things for free for you.
Anything you can do to rule out other issues will no doubt make you feel more confident about changing the suspension.
You probably wont know how your front top mounts are until you get them off the car so there is a chance you dont need to change them. The front dust boots are nearly always in a number of pieces, the backs are usually better.
I guess its hard to spend £600 on new suspension just 'cos some people on the internet said it would improve your car. We havent driven your car either but if it helps, everyone on here always says the car feels great with fresh suspension. If you are planning on keeping it a few years then my thinking is to get it done at the beginning, that way you get the full benefit from the work.
Just throwing this into the mix but it's also worth checking everything is nice and tight around the subframe connections, trailing arms etc and that the subframe itself is sound.
It's not unknown for arms to be "loose" at the mounts which will allow for some movement in the geometry of the suspension.
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@benjamino (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=25540)
There in lies the problem. As simon stated, you wont know the condition of the top mounts until you have them out.
If you need new, that does add a chunk, to the point, a set of coilys becomes more practical.
If you don't. Great. But you wont know until you know.
Also, what CTM said, one of our other members @theotherstu was reporting, that it felt likethe car wanted to kill him. An overall check of all things revealed some stuff was not torqued correctly. Torqued it up and as if by magic.......
The only thing I would add, (and if you are doing your own spannering it dosen't matter)
If you are going to replace the shock, replace the spring at the same time, otherwise you will end up paying twice for the same work.
I also echo getting up close and pesonal with the subframe. Often look fine from above, not always the caase when viewed from underneath.
Some great points everyone, thanks so much. The subframe is new but I will give everything a look over and check torques. Ill get a four wheel alignment done too. Then I'll think about shocks. I have new springs ready to go in already (much better condition that mine) so will do those at the same time. I'll report back as I chip away and see how things progress!
Ah, if you've had a new subframe it might not have been aligned correctly?
Further to James' comment, The other stu had replaced his sub-frame when his problem surfaced.
In my own experience of having the rear sub-frame and suspension in bits, it's a good idea to re-torque everything after the car has been driven a few miles as it tends to settle and come a bit loose.
Also, the sub-frame can be slightly off centre (side to side) and that's worth checking.
As for front top mounts - they are pretty robust if you keep them lubed: https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=66498.0
I'd also suggest that you check the members' map, find a local buddy and drive his car while he drives yours, just to check that your issue is 'real'. There's a lot of 'feel' in the steering on these cars, which you may not be used to.
Starting to point towards geo being out.
Sub frame itself has some wiggle room then the bars that come off it along with the adjustment shim cam thingies.
May or may not be useful. But as a starting point. Because they will be different.
Heres my geo set up