Good day wonderful people.
Replacing the wishbones and I cannot for the life of me remove the bolt show below. With a breaker bar I can get some turn on it but I'm fairly certain it's turning the whole bush. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190102/00d6980bd1aafebbbfb7a11e9498c118.jpg)
What's the best option?
I've doused it in loads of plus gas and letting that do its thing.
Do I burn the bush and hope it releases?
Cut the bolt and just get new ones?
Any other ideas would be fantastic.
Thanks in advance.
Do you have an impact driver? I bought this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XKLYQZW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B06XKLYQZW/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
for when I did the rear Subframe. The impact driver and Plusgas made short work of some very rusted in bolts back there.
Tried heating up the bolt? Getting it really hot may help break any rust.
Tried the impact driver. Looks like I may need to get some heat on it :/ it's quite close to the cv boot there so will need to be careful I guess.
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 15:33
Tried the impact driver. Looks like I may need to get some heat on it :/ it's quite close to the cv boot there so will need to be careful I guess.
Did the bolt turn with the impact driver?
Are these are the ones you need to remove the bolt not the nut as the nut has ridges to hold it in place? Just checking they are coming out the right way.
Had the same problem last week. If you've got it moving at all then you're halfway there (even if it's just rotating the bolt and nut). My nearside isn't even spinning yet.
I hate to ask a stupid question but I'm assuming that now it's spinning, you've got a spanner or socket on the reverse to keep it still? The nut will come off the other side when the bolt is loosened.
I ended up buying a blowtorch for £30 from Toolstation - if I hadn't I think I'd still be trying to remove the 19mm bolt that goes through the underside of the bracing/other bush as well.
Surely the best use of your time is to cut the bolt and put a new one on?
Then when the whole thing is out you can give it a good few whacks to knock it out?
Depending on access, I'd be trying a big hammer and punch to knock it out. And if you can't get to that side, cut the head off and go the other way?
Just to clarify, the nut is off but the bolt is seized to the bush.
I need to slide the bolt out to take the arm off but can't for the life of me move it.
Had me wondering there - what CV boot?? Ah! Steering rack boot - got it. Find a bit of sheet metal you can jam in there as a heat shield.
A bit of heat might, then do the trick.
If not:
It does look as though the head of the bolt HAS moved outwards somewhat. As James suggested, I'd try knocking it back in and then out (put the nut loosely on the other end so you don't bash the threads) and keep doing that. It might just shift after a bit of perseverance.
Sometimes these buggers seize solid in the bushing, and nothing will shift them. The problem is then; how do you cut the bolt with the mounting bracket shaped the way it is?
I'd cut both ends as close to the bracket as possible and then use a burr in a die-grinder to remove more of the shaft of the bolt until it will come clear.
If you lock the nut on the other side with a spanner, and use a, 6 sided socket on an 18" breaker bar, it'll either undo or you'll shear the head. Either way it'll come out.
Probably.
Quote from: Carolyn on January 2, 2019, 15:53
Had me wondering there - what CV boot?? Ah! Steering rack boot - got it. Find a bit of sheet metal you can jam in there as a heat shield.
A bit of heat might, then do the trick.
If not:
It does look as though the head of the bolt HAS moved outwards somewhat. As James suggested, I'd try knocking it back in and then out (put the nut loosely on the other end so you don't bash the threads) and keep doing that. It might just shift after a bit of perseverance.
Sometimes these buggers seize solid in the bushing, and nothing will shift them. The problem is then; how do you cut the bolt with the mounting bracket shaped the way it is?
I'd cut both ends as close to the bracket as possible and then use a burr in a die-grinder to remove more of the shaft of the bolt until it will come clear.
Thats the one [emoji23] incorrect terminology on my behalf.
I'll invest in a blowtorch then. I was wondering where I'd have to cut it if that was the case
Do you have an air hammer? Or even an electric one? If you tap a ball splitter or similar between the sleeve and the housing to wedge it tight then use the air hammer on the bolt head it might shock it free. More of a vibration than just hitting with a normal hammer.
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 18:39
Do you have an air hammer? Or even an electric one? If you tap a ball splitter or similar between the sleeve and the housing to wedge it tight then use the air hammer on the bolt head it might shock it free. More of a vibration than just hitting with a normal hammer.
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Also a good call. I'm going fishing on Friday instead of tomorrow now so tomorrow I'm gonna beat/burn the hell out of it until it drops off. Failing that I'll take a 9" grinder to it an hope for the best [emoji23]
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 19:02
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 18:39
Do you have an air hammer? Or even an electric one? If you tap a ball splitter or similar between the sleeve and the housing to wedge it tight then use the air hammer on the bolt head it might shock it free. More of a vibration than just hitting with a normal hammer.
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Also a good call. I'm going fishing on Friday instead of tomorrow now so tomorrow I'm gonna beat/burn the hell out of it until it drops off. Failing that I'll take a 9" grinder to it an hope for the best [emoji23]
Aaah, fishing, I've promised myself I'm going to get back to my fishing this year. But we'll see...
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 19:16
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 19:02
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 18:39
Do you have an air hammer? Or even an electric one? If you tap a ball splitter or similar between the sleeve and the housing to wedge it tight then use the air hammer on the bolt head it might shock it free. More of a vibration than just hitting with a normal hammer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Also a good call. I'm going fishing on Friday instead of tomorrow now so tomorrow I'm gonna beat/burn the hell out of it until it drops off. Failing that I'll take a 9" grinder to it an hope for the best [emoji23]
Aaah, fishing, I've promised myself I'm going to get back to my fishing this year. But we'll see...
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Took a new pb catfish in the summer. Now I'm hooked again
No pun intended [emoji23]
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 19:17
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 19:16
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 19:02
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 18:39
Do you have an air hammer? Or even an electric one? If you tap a ball splitter or similar between the sleeve and the housing to wedge it tight then use the air hammer on the bolt head it might shock it free. More of a vibration than just hitting with a normal hammer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Also a good call. I'm going fishing on Friday instead of tomorrow now so tomorrow I'm gonna beat/burn the hell out of it until it drops off. Failing that I'll take a 9" grinder to it an hope for the best [emoji23]
Aaah, fishing, I've promised myself I'm going to get back to my fishing this year. But we'll see...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Took a new pb catfish in the summer. Now I'm hooked again
No pun intended [emoji23]
Nice! Something I've never caught, was going to take H to the Ebro a few years back but then he got into girls [emoji23].
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 19:19
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 19:17
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 19:16
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 19:02
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 18:39
Do you have an air hammer? Or even an electric one? If you tap a ball splitter or similar between the sleeve and the housing to wedge it tight then use the air hammer on the bolt head it might shock it free. More of a vibration than just hitting with a normal hammer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Also a good call. I'm going fishing on Friday instead of tomorrow now so tomorrow I'm gonna beat/burn the hell out of it until it drops off. Failing that I'll take a 9" grinder to it an hope for the best [emoji23]
Aaah, fishing, I've promised myself I'm going to get back to my fishing this year. But we'll see...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Took a new pb catfish in the summer. Now I'm hooked again
No pun intended [emoji23]
Nice! Something I've never caught, was going to take H to the Ebro a few years back but then he got into girls [emoji23].
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[emoji23] typical.
I've found it's equally as expensive as cars these days [emoji1751][emoji3603] not ideal!!
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 19:20
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 19:19
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 19:17
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 19:16
Quote from: dan944 on January 2, 2019, 19:02
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 2, 2019, 18:39
Do you have an air hammer? Or even an electric one? If you tap a ball splitter or similar between the sleeve and the housing to wedge it tight then use the air hammer on the bolt head it might shock it free. More of a vibration than just hitting with a normal hammer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Also a good call. I'm going fishing on Friday instead of tomorrow now so tomorrow I'm gonna beat/burn the hell out of it until it drops off. Failing that I'll take a 9" grinder to it an hope for the best [emoji23]
Aaah, fishing, I've promised myself I'm going to get back to my fishing this year. But we'll see...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Took a new pb catfish in the summer. Now I'm hooked again
No pun intended [emoji23]
Nice! Something I've never caught, was going to take H to the Ebro a few years back but then he got into girls [emoji23].
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
[emoji23] typical.
I've found it's equally as expensive as cars these days [emoji1751][emoji3603] not ideal!!
To be fair it was as much the fear of him being dragged off the bank [emoji23]
I've got a shed full of boilies and groundbait etc but I don't imagine they're particularly fresh now! But that's a discussion for a different forum [emoji23]
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So. Thank you all!!!
Much heat applied and more movement (lateral) was achieved. Would not move past a certain point though.
1. Apply heat.
2. Get as much movement. In every direction as possible
3. Cut head off bolt.
4. Don't touch the bits that glow....even with gloves.
It's out albeit in 2 pieces. I've currently stuck an engine mount bolt that I have spare in there just so I can get the rest on.
BUT!!!
Can I be assured that this is not normal?
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190103/44f22515b122c95bce34ca7b5489a884.jpg)
Many thanks
Assuming that's not a fish eye lens, no it should be straight.
I can't even get the bolt moving, I've bought the expansion set to my Irwins so going to have another go after applying some serious heat.
Quote from: Bossworld on January 3, 2019, 16:42
Assuming that's not a fish eye lens, no it should be straight.
I can't even get the bolt moving, I've bought the expansion set to my Irwins so going to have another go after applying some serious heat.
I'll get a pair of new ones.
I was pretty certain it's meant to be straight but just needed to check.
I was quite annoyed I cut the head off because the bolt was ok otherwise :/
I got the bolt red hot at either end and had to spent about 20 mins knocking it side to side after I got easy rotational movement.
I'm sure it'll fly out once you get the big guns on it.
Quote from: dan944 on January 3, 2019, 16:45
Quote from: Bossworld on January 3, 2019, 16:42
Assuming that's not a fish eye lens, no it should be straight.
I can't even get the bolt moving, I've bought the expansion set to my Irwins so going to have another go after applying some serious heat.
I'll get a pair of new ones.
I was pretty certain it's meant to be straight but just needed to check.
I was quite annoyed I cut the head off because the bolt was ok otherwise :/
I got the bolt red hot at either end and had to spent about 20 mins knocking it side to side after I got easy rotational movement.
I'm sure it'll fly out once you get the big guns on it.
Well done Dan. Perseverance! AND you've found the loose bits at the back. Excellent. ;D
Quote from: Carolyn on January 3, 2019, 19:04
Quote from: dan944 on January 3, 2019, 16:45
Quote from: Bossworld on January 3, 2019, 16:42
Assuming that's not a fish eye lens, no it should be straight.
I can't even get the bolt moving, I've bought the expansion set to my Irwins so going to have another go after applying some serious heat.
I'll get a pair of new ones.
I was pretty certain it's meant to be straight but just needed to check.
I was quite annoyed I cut the head off because the bolt was ok otherwise :/
I got the bolt red hot at either end and had to spent about 20 mins knocking it side to side after I got easy rotational movement.
I'm sure it'll fly out once you get the big guns on it.
Well done Dan. Perseverance! AND you've found the loose bits at the back. Excellent. ;D
Thank you.
I've definitely got more patience than before the two got under my skin.
I don't think I've ever left her on axle stands overnight :o haha.
Can't wait to drive her once the tracking is done though. Should be dreamy!!
So... I've got every last bolt and ball joint off the nearside, with the exception of the bolt in the original picture.
My bigger issue is that the nut is still attached. I've tried standing on a breaker bar with a 17mm Irwins socket on both the bolt and nut and neither is budging.
I reckon Carolyn's post is spot on and the bolt is presumably stuck in the bush.
I'm getting more accurate with the angle grinder and dremel given the fight so far but I'm still a bit nervous about taking the head of the bolt off if the nut is still on there.
Is there any mileage in trying a third round of blowtorch or do I just need to bite the bullet and chop stuff up/get the drill out?
I'd get seriously bored if I spent more than an hour on a bolt like that.
Then the cutting/grinding kit would be coming out. Wouldn't be bothering with the Dremel, though.
I would cut and grind as close to the bracket as possible. Then I'd use a fat burr to take enough extra length of either end of the bolt, so that the a-arm drops out.
Mind you, I'm tooled up for that kind of stuff.
You could cut the nut-end off first and see if you can get the bolt to spin a bit. Then it might hammer out.
mapp gas torch, temp gets higher than std blow torch.
heat it till rubber bush starts to ooze out, then keep heating, this is when you can warm the inner steel bush that has froze to the bolt. ( rubber insulates heat hence melt it out)
may have quench cool and re heat, never failed me yet.
Once the nut was off I managed to burn out the rubber and get movement. Then looots of hammering. Are you relaxing the wishbone? If so just cut it off then you can cut straight down the middle [emoji23]
Quote from: dan944 on January 5, 2019, 16:24
Once the nut was off I managed to burn out the rubber and get movement. Then looots of hammering. Are you relaxing the wishbone? If so just cut it off then you can cut straight down the middle [emoji23]
I'm leaning towards that lol I've already cut two chunks out of it to give me more access for cutting other bits off. The fun of a 14 year old car.
I have a tiny bit of movement up/down so I assume that's the bush moving. I'll take another look another day when I've got some time
Thanks all
Looking at the orig pic. And with all respect to what little access/space is shown and not shown
Do you have room to use a pad/jab saw loaded with hack saw blade and saw down both inner sides of the bracket.
Jigsaw if space allows.
Certainly laborious, but thats all I can offer in terms of suggestions.
I couldn't get a 12" hacksaw in. You might be able to get a junior one in?
I used a dremmel to cut the head off the bolt in the end. Purely out of nerves.
Just put your grinder skills to the test and cut like so. [emoji1787]
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190105/10565693adf700a75889a05c67636116.jpg)
What kind of blade/disc is going to get in there, without destroying the mount?
Quote from: Carolyn on January 5, 2019, 18:08
What kind of blade/disc is going to get in there, without destroying the mount?
God knows!! Haha.
Maybe a cut in the centre would give movement to get to each side? I'm stabbing in the dark here but keeping options open as I still have another side to tackle.
Right...
Cut off the nut end of the bolt first. Apply heat and see if you can move/turn the bolt. Even if only bit-by-bit it will then probably come out.
If you can't shift it.
Cut off both ends. Grind gently until you've got the bolt flush with the suspension mount.
Then, going in from each end use a burr (see pic) to grind the shaft of the bolt inwards (shortening it) until you've removed enough metal to knock the a-arm out.
It will be slow and tedious ( the steel is bloody hard), but there is no tool that will get inside the mount without damaging the mount itself.
I don't have any blowtorches or uggaduggas at my disposal so I've always had to be rather creative with undoing bolts that were entirely stuck. Rarely did it involve destruction.
So, it might not mean much but I've imagined what I would do if this was mine, with the tools I have.
Cut off the head as close as possible to the frame.
Pry that side out, flexing the bracket a bit, so that it popped out of the hole. Given that there are 2 rubber lips alongside the bush, it should flex enough.
Nut splitter on the nut and remove with force. Then a crowbar to pry the assembly away from the car.
It being a rubber bush and SOME space between the bracket and the middle sleeve of the bush, it should all have just enough give to pop out with a lot of force.
Not sure if that's helpful at all. Just how I assess it.
Quote from: dan944 on January 5, 2019, 17:38
I couldn't get a 12" hacksaw in. You might be able to get a junior one in?
I used a dremmel to cut the head off the bolt in the end. Purely out of nerves.
Just put your grinder skills to the test and cut like so. [emoji1787]
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190105/10565693adf700a75889a05c67636116.jpg)
Not a traditional frame hacksaw. A pad saw with a hacksaw blade.
Actually just a naked hacksaw blade. Wrap rag around the end your holding. Gloves.
I think the issue is the one Carolyn's outlined and hence the need for the burring tool. The wishbone should come out of its home with minimal effort providing everything is unbolted but note that it is a snug fit.
But even with chopping both ends off, there'll still be sufficient bolt keeping it in place. Bit like the wooden dowel for the till roll on my firstborn's early learning centre cash register lol
I'm really uncertain about trying to tease it out with force/prying given the age and rust down there.
Plan is to dremel/grind the nut off first as suggested and will take it from there. I did a nice clean job with the drop link on the arb this second time out so a little more experienced.
Will report back in a couple of days. Did buy a nut splitter from Toolstation but it's worse than useless, typical Silverline tat.
Do appreciate the help from everyone thank you
Something along these lines
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Handy-Handheld-Saw-adjustable-Length-Hacksaw-Blade-Fitted-Into-a-Plastic-Handle/8012044886?iid=252712884071
Cutting inside as per the red lines.
Should avoid what boss rightly points out if cut out side.
Quote from: Ardent on January 5, 2019, 20:39
Something along these lines
https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/Handy-Handheld-Saw-adjustable-Length-Hacksaw-Blade-Fitted-Into-a-Plastic-Handle/8012044886?iid=252712884071
Cutting inside as per the red lines.
Should avoid what boss rightly points out if cut out side.
I like the idea but I think you'd have to burn through the bushes as another poster suggested first which would give a bit more sight on the target.
Dunno what a hacksaw blade with that tpi is like on hardened rubber but I ended up using the hacksaw with a fresh blade when I was trying to get rid of the castle nut and with a boat load of effort I only made it about 2mm in. Hence the dremel
I would just cut the head of the bolt off, then using a good hammer, hit the bolt untill it's flush with the mounting, then start using a punch to push it right through. But there again, my tool box consists mainly of heavy metal at the end of wooden and firbeglass shafts .... :withstupid:
Hacksaw blade needs to be tungsten carbide. With liberal frequent spraying of wd40 to cool.
A normal hacksaw will be next to useless by the time you get 1mm in.
I had a TC blade but unfortunately they're a bit more brittle as well..did the job very well.. Until it snapped.
If you're doing away with the wishbone anyway why not try just cutting across between the two, vertical red lines on the photo on two opposing faces and expose the bush? Then you can try gripping it with some moleys and turning the bolt...
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@Bossworld (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=23743), I'm guessing you are not as well equipped with tools as @Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891) so If as @midlife mentions you do not want to save the wishbone and as access to each end of the bolt is restricted perhaps what I would describe as " chain drilling" the housing along the centre line of the bolt would help. This is drilling a series of holes with the circumferences almost touching.
The body of the wishbone is relatively thin, pressed metal, so should drill easily, behind that is the rubber bush and easy to drill through to the bolt. This will allow penetrating fluid to reach the bolt.
If this does not ease the bolt, the drilled hoes can be opened up so that the circumferences overlap. In this way you will have "cut " through the wishbone housing and released the compression of the bush on the bolt.
At each stage give the bolt a good wrench with a six point socket and a breaker bar to check progress.
As Carolyn mentioned, persistence- It really is the best tool in the box.
Quote from: Joesson on January 6, 2019, 16:23
@Bossworld (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=23743), I'm guessing you are not as well equipped with tools as @Carolyn (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=22891) so If as @midlife mentions you do not want to save the wishbone and as access to each end of the bolt is restricted perhaps what I would describe as " chain drilling" the housing along the centre line of the bolt would help. This is drilling a series of holes with the circumferences almost touching.
The body of the wishbone is relatively thin, pressed metal, so should drill easily, behind that is the rubber bush and easy to drill through to the bolt. This will allow penetrating fluid to reach the bolt.
If this does not ease the bolt, the drilled hoes can be opened up so that the circumferences overlap. In this way you will have "cut " through the wishbone housing and released the compression of the bush on the bolt.
At each stage give the bolt a good wrench with a six point socket and a breaker bar to check progress.
As Carolyn mentioned, persistence- It really is the best tool in the box.
That's the first alternative to my method that will work, I'd use a centre punch to locate the drill, that way the holes can touch..
Excellent suggestion. 8)
I'll take that as a compliment Carolyn, thank you.
If I've understood correctly you mean drilling the bolt/bushing at a 90 degree angle? Did wonder what the after effects of that would be so thank you for the explanation.
I had a little play earlier this morning and this is the state of what's left. The angle grinder isn't an option for the nut, there's too much in the way. Careful vertical dremeling will get through the rest of the nut and its flange I reckon but will try that drill method next while there's still some bolt left.
(https://i.ibb.co/Bw5cFs7/E4688-E30-01-C1-4575-9-F05-3-D53-C5-C043-D3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6N7rLsp)
I will try and get the drill out in a couple of days, back to the office tomorrow. Not in a major rush it's just fitting this in around looking after the kids :)
(Yes I went a bit postal on the front of the nut)
(https://i.ibb.co/q0PCzw4/A3-F79916-7-B94-4-D2-D-91-F1-D431-F39-C648-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YDqX6GK)
Sorry I'm sure the suspense is killing everyone!
Quote from: Bossworld on January 6, 2019, 18:09
If I've understood correctly you mean drilling the bolt/bushing at a 90 degree angle? Did wonder what the after effects of that would be so thank you for the explanation.
I had a little play earlier this morning and this is the state of what's left. The angle grinder isn't an option for the nut, there's too much in the way. Careful vertical dremeling will get through the rest of the nut and its flange I reckon but will try that drill method next while there's still some bolt left.
(https://i.ibb.co/Bw5cFs7/E4688-E30-01-C1-4575-9-F05-3-D53-C5-C043-D3.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6N7rLsp)
I will try and get the drill out in a couple of days, back to the office tomorrow. Not in a major rush it's just fitting this in around looking after the kids :)
(Yes I went a bit postal on the front of the nut)
(https://i.ibb.co/q0PCzw4/A3-F79916-7-B94-4-D2-D-91-F1-D431-F39-C648-B.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YDqX6GK)
Sorry I'm sure the suspense is killing everyone!
Is the leg on that axle stand bent by design or from the weight? Can't help but feel it doesn't look too healthy to be working under...
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Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 6, 2019, 18:18
Is the leg on that axle stand bent by design or from the weight? Can't help but feel it doesn't look too healthy to be working under...
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Don't panic the angle of the photo is off and the stand is covered in muck. I moved the left hand axle stand further down to the jacking point while angle grinding but it's back under the mounting point now.
Will double check that stand now though
Quote from: Bossworld on January 6, 2019, 18:25
Quote from: Call the midlife! on January 6, 2019, 18:18
Is the leg on that axle stand bent by design or from the weight? Can't help but feel it doesn't look too healthy to be working under...
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Don't panic the angle of the photo is off and the stand is covered in muck. I moved the left hand axle stand further down to the jacking point while angle grinding but it's back under the mounting point now.
Will double check that stand now though
Cool, it just looks like the leg facing the camera has a kink in it, probably just muck like you say but we've seen them collapse in the past.
Credit to your perseverance though [emoji1303]
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I've got my car on the lift with the front wheels and bumper off right now.
I'll have a close look at this 'getting-the-bolt-out' problem tomorrow.
While I'm at it, I think I'll crack mine loose and give them some anti-seize treatment so this doesn't happen to me!
That's right @Bossworld (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=23743), drill through the bush housing to the bolt at 90 degrees to the length of the bolt. From what I see in your latest pictures you will need to rotate whats left of the wishbone so that you can get clear access to drill the bush housing.
The link shows an example of chain drilling in a workshop, but the principal is the same.
As Carolyn said, using a centre punch to mark out and position the holes will give the best result. PS, the link shows a workshop example, near enough is good enough for the hole centres when your working as you are.
http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/chain-drilling/
Quote from: Carolyn on January 6, 2019, 18:47
I've got my car on the lift with the front wheels and bumper off right now.
I'll have a close look at this 'getting-the-bolt-out' problem tomorrow.
While I'm at it, I think I'll crack mine loose and give them some anti-seize treatment so this doesn't happen to me!
I think the car's previous owner lived at Saltburn-by-the-sea.
Now I'm no geographer but I reckon it may have played a part in this struggle :))
Hopefully you'll encounter no such issues. When this thing is finally off I'm getting a display case for it
Well, if anyone's still waiting on an update...
Drilling through - I managed to get through the frame, bush, bushing and I believe (though don't know yet) through the bolt with a reasonable aim first time. I widened the hole to 6mm before snapping the bit although luckily I extracted it with pliers.
A workmate's husband came round to have a look last night (classic car hobbyist). Bought a bigger breaker with him, perhaps that and or a combination of squirting penetrating oil through the newly drilled hole and I was able to get the bolt to turn the remains of the wishbone up and down.
The nut was moving a couple of mm either way with that movement but nothing proper. I was also very concerned about bracing against the remains of the wishbone as it was likely to damage the mounting point.
Anyway, managed to dremel out the nut without causing damage. The bolt was then much happier to rotate the arm but again it's definitely seized in the bushing. No amount of hammering was budging it through either.
Angle ground the bolt and its washer/spacer off and I'm left with the scenario Carolyn advised, so kudos to her.
So current state of play - I chipped the brushes on my dremel using the burr but I've made a very decent impression in what was the bolt end. Once the replacement dremel brushes arrive I reckon I'll have it out.
Cost £11 for the replacement bolt, spacer and nut from Toyota - I'll check the breakdown when I pick the bits up.
To Patrick's point - it possibly could be levered out but I am very wary of the state of that metal and don't want to risk flexing it.
Thanks again to all and I'll post a pic when it's all finally out.
Quote from: Bossworld on January 8, 2019, 22:05
Well, if anyone's still waiting on an update...
Drilling through - I managed to get through the frame, bush, bushing and I believe (though don't know yet) through the bolt with a reasonable aim first time. I widened the hole to 6mm before snapping the bit although luckily I extracted it with pliers.
A workmate's husband came round to have a look last night (classic car hobbyist). Bought a bigger breaker with him, perhaps that and or a combination of squirting penetrating oil through the newly drilled hole and I was able to get the bolt to turn the remains of the wishbone up and down.
The nut was moving a couple of mm either way with that movement but nothing proper. I was also very concerned about bracing against the remains of the wishbone as it was likely to damage the mounting point.
Anyway, managed to dremel out the nut without causing damage. The bolt was then much happier to rotate the arm but again it's definitely seized in the bushing. No amount of hammering was budging it through either.
Angle ground the bolt and its washer/spacer off and I'm left with the scenario Carolyn advised, so kudos to her.
So current state of play - I chipped the brushes on my dremel using the burr but I've made a very decent impression in what was the bolt end. Once the replacement dremel brushes arrive I reckon I'll have it out.
Cost £11 for the replacement bolt, spacer and nut from Toyota - I'll check the breakdown when I pick the bits up.
To Patrick's point - it possibly could be levered out but I am very wary of the state of that metal and don't want to risk flexing it.
Thanks again to all and I'll post a pic when it's all finally out.
Good effort that man!!!
I'm hopefully going to receive my remaining bits by the weekend to join on the luxuries of new bushes :) and being able to drive the car again.
I think any advice to anyone doing this is Apply plusgas generously for weeks before hand and make sure you don't plan on having the car for a while ....just in case.
Just gone through this process myself but without the misery that boss and Dan sufffered. My main concern is the condition of the metal around the bolts and what's the best thing to do about painting that before fitting new front wishbones.
Quote from: Tomo70 on January 10, 2019, 18:17
Just gone through this process myself but without the misery that boss and Dan sufffered. My main concern is the condition of the metal around the bolts and what's the best thing to do about painting that before fitting new front wishbones.
Good thinking! I was going to suggest doing this while it's in bits.
Wire brush the rust off. Bilt Hamber rust treatment. When cured, zinc primer, then paint.
Quote from: Carolyn on January 10, 2019, 18:31
Quote from: Tomo70 on January 10, 2019, 18:17
Just gone through this process myself but without the misery that boss and Dan sufffered. My main concern is the condition of the metal around the bolts and what's the best thing to do about painting that before fitting new front wishbones.
Cheers Caroline, I was thinking along those lines but wasn't sure about rust treatment. Got Zinc primer and paint. Just it's not good curing times in cold garage.
Good thinking! I was going to suggest doing this while it's in bits.
Wire brush the rust off. Bilt Hamber rust treatment. When cured, zinc primer, then paint.
Quote from: Tomo70 on January 10, 2019, 18:58
Quote from: Carolyn on January 10, 2019, 18:31
Quote from: Tomo70 on January 10, 2019, 18:17
Just gone through this process myself but without the misery that boss and Dan sufffered. My main concern is the condition of the metal around the bolts and what's the best thing to do about painting that before fitting new front wishbones.
Cheers Caroline, I was thinking along those lines but wasn't sure about rust treatment. Got Zinc primer and paint. Just it's not good curing times in cold garage.
Good thinking! I was going to suggest doing this while it's in bits.
Wire brush the rust off. Bilt Hamber rust treatment. When cured, zinc primer, then paint.
Fan heater pointed at bit in question.
Quote from: Carolyn on January 10, 2019, 19:02
Quote from: Tomo70 on January 10, 2019, 18:58
Quote from: Carolyn on January 10, 2019, 18:31
Quote from: Tomo70 on January 10, 2019, 18:17
Just gone through this process myself but without the misery that boss and Dan sufffered. My main concern is the condition of the metal around the bolts and what's the best thing to do about painting that before fitting new front wishbones.
Cheers Caroline, I was thinking along those lines but wasn't sure about rust treatment. Got Zinc primer and paint. Just it's not good curing times in cold garage.
Good thinking! I was going to suggest doing this while it's in bits.
Wire brush the rust off. Bilt Hamber rust treatment. When cured, zinc primer, then paint.
Fan heater pointed at bit in question.
Curiosity here, which Bilt Hamber do you mean? I've bought 2 different products in the run up to doing the work on mine but have yet to use either.
Deox C and another one you paint on in two layers and leave on but I don't remember it saying to use zinc primer?
I stupidly left my con rods in water based degreaser overnight and they've broken out in rust spots too..[emoji851]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
A bit of fine wet&dry should sort your conrods. Try soaking in petrol or kerosene.
This is what I've been using lately:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bilt-Hamber-Hydrate-80-Rust-Killer-Barrier-System-500ml-bottle/181191937689?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648
But any good rust treatment should suffice. I always tend to use zinc primer to help resist new rust and to help paint to adhere well. I'm no 'bible' on this stuff!
I just reckon the best protection is to treat the rust and then paint properly.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190110/6a935e63b6bcbd64a7d2758e0f6bbfb6.jpg)
Thanks to Paul at tcbparts I can now crack on with getting it back together and trying the other side.
I can guarantee I'll be blaspheming on that side as well [emoji17]
Ps, that was next day delivery. Now that's nifty ;)
Quote from: Carolyn on January 10, 2019, 19:23
A bit of fine wet&dry should sort your conrods. Try soaking in petrol or kerosene.
This is what I've been using lately:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bilt-Hamber-Hydrate-80-Rust-Killer-Barrier-System-500ml-bottle/181191937689?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2648
But any good rust treatment should suffice. I always tend to use zinc primer to help resist new rust and to help paint to adhere well. I'm no 'bible' on this stuff!
I just reckon the best protection is to treat the rust and then paint properly.
So not the deox C for the conrods, bit too aggressive? It's the Hydrate that I have also, was going to use it on a lot of the brackets and other bits I'll be stripping off.
Although I'm well behind already so we'll see how that pans out![emoji23]
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ahem
(https://i.ibb.co/Km4fYD5/26643-E14-1-D25-4732-8895-7-A9-F52-B4365-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t3jvSzH)
Thanks again to everyone!
Current state of play is that my garage is covered in shrapnel that I must sweep before putting wheels back on and putting the car back on the ground, but the nearside is all bolted up. Replacement speed sensor cable fitted too.
Just need to
Reattach brake disc, pad carrier and calliper.
Reattach arch liner (and survey the mass of damaged clips)
Grease top mounts as per Carolyn's guide.
Reassemble frunk and frunk cover.
Stick wheels back on
The one casualty has been my dremel - it chipped the brushes after running the burring tool for a while. Annoyingly I ordered new ones which came with springs that were far too long, and wedged the brushes in the power switch. Had to smash those back out, fiver down the drain but reused the old ones which just about got me over the line before it died again. Looks like a new power switch and brushes is less than a fiver off a Chinese seller on eBay.
The only regret I've got, other than time spent, is that I only replaced the nearside inner tie rod. There wasn't any in/out play in the offside, but the ball
joint is obviously 14 years more worn than the nearside.
Quote from: Bossworld on January 10, 2019, 23:40
Ahem
(https://i.ibb.co/Km4fYD5/26643-E14-1-D25-4732-8895-7-A9-F52-B4365-A.jpg) (https://ibb.co/t3jvSzH)
Thanks again to everyone!
Current state of play is that my garage is covered in shrapnel that I must sweep before putting wheels back on and putting the car back on the ground, but the nearside is all bolted up. Replacement speed sensor cable fitted too.
Just need to
Reattach brake disc, pad carrier and calliper.
Reattach arch liner (and survey the mass of damaged clips)
Grease top mounts as per Carolyn's guide.
Reassemble frunk and frunk cover.
Stick wheels back on
The one casualty has been my dremel - it chipped the brushes after running the burring tool for a while. Annoyingly I ordered new ones which came with springs that were far too long, and wedged the brushes in the power switch. Had to smash those back out, fiver down the drain but reused the old ones which just about got me over the line before it died again. Looks like a new power switch and brushes is less than a fiver off a Chinese seller on eBay.
The only regret I've got, other than time spent, is that I only replaced the nearside inner tie rod. There wasn't any in/out play in the offside, but the ball
joint is obviously 14 years more worn than the nearside.
Well that was an epic battle.
Hats off to you sir. Collateral damage is allowed when the car won't play nice. Lucky the dremmel is repairable.
I start again today so will take this information forward.
Quote from: dan944 on January 10, 2019, 20:11
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190110/6a935e63b6bcbd64a7d2758e0f6bbfb6.jpg)
Thanks to Paul at tcbparts I can now crack on with getting it back together and trying the other side.
I can guarantee I'll be blaspheming on that side as well (https://emoji.tapatalk-cdn.com/emoji17.png)
Going back to the parts catalogue post I made, the Toyota diagrams make reference to a retainer in between the two bushes of the drop link. I ended up with two different brands as they were all Amazon had, one brand had an outward lip where the two rubber bushes meet, the other brand an inner (presumably for this fabled retainer). Neither came with said middle metal retainer, only the one on the top and the bottom.
The top of the new wishbone has a groove for the bush to sit in anyway so not overly concerned, and I suppose some people do away with ARBs completely, but there's another parts mystery for you.
9094802178 RETAINER, CUSHION, NO.2(FOR FRONT STABILIZER BAR) 48817B ZZW30
Good luck with the other side, hopefully it doesn't put up as much of a battle for you.
(https://static.baza.farpost.ru/v/1479106414064_bulletin)
How strange. I can't really make comment but will look to see how mine sits.
Got the other side wishbone on this afternoon. Once again that dreaded bolt was seized.
So used the same method of much heat and beat.
Did not budge...
New plan, burn out bush to achieve max movement.
Bring out the 9" cutting disc.
Pray I'm accurate.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190112/251a853b78f9206ec272bf46b3663ed2.jpg)
Had to turn and cut a few times but off she came :) and once the bolt was cut, lone behold...
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190112/582640690d492913fc00cdfae8d38407.jpg)
It fell to pieces!!!
But I also discovered what the spacer was that @bossworld pointed out from the exploded diagram.
It seems to be part of the bush and can be seen in the second image.
Quote from: dan944 on January 12, 2019, 21:04
Got the other side wishbone on this afternoon. Once again that dreaded bolt was seized.
So used the same method of much heat and beat.
Did not budge...
New plan, burn out bush to achieve max movement.
Bring out the 9" cutting disc.
Pray I'm accurate.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190112/251a853b78f9206ec272bf46b3663ed2.jpg)
Had to turn and cut a few times but off she came :) and once the bolt was cut, lone behold
It fell to pieces!!!
But I also discovered what the spacer was that @bossworld pointed out from the exploded diagram.
It seems to be part of the bush and can be seen in the second image.
I've just taken another look at my remains, does this look like it might be wedged on? (This is the nut side as it were). This would mean it doesn't touch the flange nut.
Still can't really see what structural difference it would make given the bolt only just goes through the mount points on both sides but hey ho
(https://i.ibb.co/qCtWbg9/57-E81-F51-CBED-49-F6-ACF6-F26-BD0-EA127-F.jpg) (https://ibb.co/m0LXQyt)
Quote from: Bossworld on January 12, 2019, 22:31
Quote from: dan944 on January 12, 2019, 21:04
Got the other side wishbone on this afternoon. Once again that dreaded bolt was seized.
So used the same method of much heat and beat.
Did not budge...
New plan, burn out bush to achieve max movement.
Bring out the 9" cutting disc.
Pray I'm accurate.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190112/251a853b78f9206ec272bf46b3663ed2.jpg)
Had to turn and cut a few times but off she came :) and once the bolt was cut, lone behold
It fell to pieces!!!
But I also discovered what the spacer was that @bossworld pointed out from the exploded diagram.
It seems to be part of the bush and can be seen in the second image.
Hmm what do you reckon then? Was it fitted on the end of the bushing before it's pushed in between the mounting point?
I'm 99.9% confident there wasn't one fitted on either side of my car
I think so. It was solid until I burnt it all out. The sleeve itself is just a sleeve and the spacer/washed thing I was just on one end. Rather odd tbh.
Posted a pic after your reply, think the mystery is solved.
The metal part of the bushing still protrudes out beyond the spacer so personally, I'm not going to dismantle it all again or lose any sleep over it
Quote from: Bossworld on January 12, 2019, 22:39
Posted a pic after your reply, think the mystery is solved.
The metal part of the bushing still protrudes out beyond the spacer so personally, I'm not going to dismantle it all again or lose any sleep over it
I'm just glad the thing is off now. Hopefully get out for a drive tomorrow and see how everything is :)
Quote from: dan944 on January 12, 2019, 22:43
Quote from: Bossworld on January 12, 2019, 22:39
Posted a pic after your reply, think the mystery is solved.
The metal part of the bushing still protrudes out beyond the spacer so personally, I'm not going to dismantle it all again or lose any sleep over it
I'm just glad the thing is off now. Hopefully get out for a drive tomorrow and see how everything is :)
How did the drive go? :)
Quote from: M.J.S on January 14, 2019, 14:32
Quote from: dan944 on January 12, 2019, 22:43
Quote from: Bossworld on January 12, 2019, 22:39
Posted a pic after your reply, think the mystery is solved.
The metal part of the bushing still protrudes out beyond the spacer so personally, I'm not going to dismantle it all again or lose any sleep over it
I'm just glad the thing is off now. Hopefully get out for a drive tomorrow and see how everything is :)
How did the drive go? :)
Good thanks. Felt great. Really need the tracking sorted now as I've removed every suspension component but it's a remarkable difference.
Engine bushings have introduced a fair amount of vibration but I guess that's the trade of for beautiful gear changes.
I need to secure all my plastics now to reduce the rattle.
There was another way to get the gear changes, less engine wobble and no extra vibration....
Quote from: Carolyn on January 14, 2019, 18:49
There was another way to get the gear changes, less engine wobble and no extra vibration....
One step ahead of you Carolyn...or rather behind you. I copied you head damper as well [emoji23]
The bushes were properly buggered though
I may remove the head damper to see if it lessens vibrations at all.
By far one of the best mods done to my car.
I remember removing it once to see what a difference it made. It was off for about 10 mins.
Ahhh I'll just leave it then.
I'll let you find out if the vibrations are really that bad at DD19