A 'heads up' for those of you who like to track your car or do a bit of B road 'scratching'.
Dean at Rutland MR2 has just broken an MR S with a JDM five-speed box with factory LSD. More hens' teeth!!
That doesn't surprise me. The transmission for our cars are weak particularly the third gear and the input and output bearings. The synchronizers are also sensitive to abuse and fluid that is corrosive to yellow metals.
Despite all of this I have no problem with my transmission and prefer it to be the way which is meant for street use for a momentum car. The other option is adding more weight and cost so there is a tradeoff. There are many factory transmission from the likes of Getrag that also fail and don't hold up either when abused.
The best thing to do in a situation like this were racing is required is to have a spare transmissions as the cost of admission.
When someone is selling a car that has been raced I generally pass because it can put many years on a car.
Dev, I thibk Carolyn means Dean is breaking a car that has this transmission :)
The car's gone, the transmission is fine. And it's a great transmission indeed! Not great on motorways but definitely noticeably feistier on the b-roads. I really enjoyed driving Carolyn's
We really don't speak the same language do we 😂
Yes broken car. Good transmission.
Dean (who's seen more cars than anybody) reckons the 5 speed to be much stronger than the six.
Dev: Over here, MR'S' is a JDM import....
Sorry I didn't get the jist of it. We usually have complaints of the transmission being weak and breaking.
Some wanted an adaptor for a stronger transmission option.
Quote from: Carolyn on July 27, 2019, 15:50Yes broken car. Good transmission.
Dean (who's seen more cars than anybody) reckons the 5 speed to be much stronger than the six.
Dev: Over here, MR'S' is a JDM import....
When I first bought my 2, which was some time before I found the ROC, I first of all asked Mr T about servicing costs. The service manager asked what gear box my then prospective purchase had. It's a five speed says I, that's good says he, it's a "better" box.
Do you know what markings are on it - reason being I bought an import box with lsd a while back and the bell housing has C60 on it I think and something different on the main box. Unfortunately I'm in France at the minute so can't check
Quote from: tets on July 28, 2019, 06:55Do you know what markings are on it - reason being I bought an import box with lsd a while back and the bell housing has C60 on it I think and something different on the main box. Unfortunately I'm in France at the minute so can't check
I haven't seen it yet. Dean just told me about it, I'll be there on Tuesday, so I'll have a look. Mind you if Dean says it's a JDM with LSD, then it will be so.
Thanks Carolyn - I bought mine from a random person but it had come off a white import
I'm back on Sunday so will double check mine but if memory serves I think it was once said that JDM boxes had a C60 housing
Regards
Steve
I've done my best to read the Transaxle number on my car. This car is a JDM with LSD.
it's 056 /07B
The 056 refers to the Closer ration mid gears and lower different final drive ratio. The 07B means Torsen LSD (the 'B' at the end.)
Hope this helps
My research indicates C60 are six gear, while C50 are 5.
There's a whole Wikipedia page on it. Gets complicated.
Ok so I just found an old email I wrote with the info on - mine has C50K stamped on the box and C60 on the bellhousing
Wiki suggests some j spec boxes used the C60 bellhousing so it could be one
I bought it as the imports have a better final drive but I might have got lucky!
Most of the transmissions will have c60 markings.
In the US we get a similar or possibly the same 5 speed transmission as that JDM with and without the LSD that came on later years. If that is the case those don't hold up to more power just the same without eventually breaking.
However there has been some speculation that the shaft size between the 6 and five speed might me different in thickness.
I went ahead and researched. It would appear the transmission in question is the C56 and it's the most common transmission for the MR-S which is what we have state side and is not particularly JDM.
Its not any better than what you guys are using (except for a shorter gear ratio) which is the C63 which is far more rare .
As a matter of fact many on our side have had issues with the C56 breaking just as much as the C60. Some here actually upgrade to the C63 that gets imported from wrecked Roadsters on your side for the 6th gear and LSD. Some have also used the C63 with their turbo and supercharged builds with no issues.
I suppose its a case of the grass is greener on the other side and Im willing to bet many owners on my side would be willing to trade transmissions.
Mine is C50
Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2019, 16:42Mine is C50
Interesting. It would seem that you guys were given an early transmission for the year 2000-2002.
Where as we received the C56 for the manual and a C50 for our version of the SMT. The difference is a closer ratio between 3rd and 4th gears.
I wonder what the rational for doing this was when they could have supplied the same C56 transmission to all markets.
It could be the final drive ratio.
I'm decently sure no jdm boxes made it to the US. The only reason we have them is from import cars, which we can do as they're right hand drive.
It'd be good to have one of each kind, 5 and 6 speed, rip them all to bits and compare them.
Alas..nobody in their right mind would want to do that :)
As Patrick points out, my car is a Japanese import 2001. The engine is a little different to the Euro one too and made in a different factory.
This is the box our 750 club racers all go for. Makes for a livelier car on the twisties.
Edit: Japanese MR S = Midship Runabout Sport.. American: MR2 Spyder ,is a different beast, and then there's the European MR2 Roadster.
The LSD in the early MR S was a non-standard factory option. Hence very rare.
Although the 'boxes in the US wouldn't be termed 'JDM', do they not use the same gear ratios.?
(Less sure of final drive though)
I had believed that everywhere used the same 1-5 ratios other than the UK market getting longer 3rd & 4th.
Quote from: shnazzle on July 29, 2019, 17:09I'm decently sure no jdm boxes made it to the US. The only reason we have them is from import cars, which we can do as they're right hand drive.
It'd be good to have one of each kind, 5 and 6 speed, rip them all to bits and compare them.
Alas..nobody in their right mind would want to do that :)
From the information I have available the JDM box is a C56 which is the same transmission that was supplied to the US market. The addition of the LSD was an option in the US market in 2004 and 2005. This is particularly for the manual transmission. The SMT received a different variant.
I referenced the wiki article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_C_transmission
Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2019, 17:13As Patrick points out, my car is a Japanese import 2001. The engine is a little different to the Euro one too and made in a different factory.
This is the box our 750 club racers all go for. Makes for a livelier car on the twisties.
Edit: Japanese MR S = Midship Runabout Sport.. American: MR2 Spyder ,is a different beast, and then there's the European MR2 Roadster.
The LSD in the early MR S was a non-standard factory option. Hence very rare.
There are different variants but on the whole the engines and transmissions are the same between the JP and US markets.
The ECUs and such are different.
We have 1ZZ engines from other cars like the Corolla that are different. They are made in the US and have different valves and rods however we are able to adapt to those engines without any issues or modifications.
From the transaxle number on m the chassis plate JDM car, my gearbox is a C50. End of.
Quote from: Gaz mr-s on July 29, 2019, 18:15Although the 'boxes in the US wouldn't be termed 'JDM', do they not use the same gear ratios.?
(Less sure of final drive though)
I had believed that everywhere used the same 1-5 ratios other than the UK market getting longer 3rd & 4th.
I don't think anything gets termed JDM per say. I think its the transmission designation model. If they match its the same transmission.
One thing that I find that is interesting is that there were two different LSD options for the C56 transmission.
I think the most common one was the torsion and its possible that they had a clutch type.
It makes me wonder why they had a non torsion type and where it was used.
Quote from: Dev on July 29, 2019, 18:38I don't think anything gets termed JDM per say.
It's a colloquialism for any car stuff that wasn't available here but is regarded as something good that was available in Japan.
Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2019, 18:35From the transaxle number on m the chassis plate JDM car, my gearbox is a C50. End of.
Im not doubting that and they could have used an earlier transmission for the MRS since the car may have been introduced earlier before they switched to the C56 if that was the case. The C50 is a much older transmission.
From my information and from other evidence Japan used the C56.
We have many importers of JDM transmissions that are sold here like this one.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Toyota-MRS-MR2-Spyder-1ZZ-FE-C56-5Speed-Transmission-VVTi-1-8L-2000-2005-1ZZ/113091320845?fits=Model%3AMR2+Spyder%7CMake%3AToyota&hash=item1a54c49c0d:g:OfYAAOSw91hbLT9M
Anyway, before the thread went sideways, I was giving a heads up the the gearbox might be available and I'll be seeing it tomorrow, in case someone wants it. Mind you, one of the 750 club racers has probably bagged it already....
Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2019, 19:04Anyway, before the thread went sideways, I was giving a heads up the the gearbox might be available and I'll be seeing it tomorrow, in case someone wants it. Mind you, one of the 750 club racers has probably bagged it already....
You should check the serial number on it for confirmation. It would be interesting to see what it actually is.
The box is still there. C50 with LSD.
Quote from: Carolyn on July 30, 2019, 14:02The box is still there. C50 with LSD.
I think I understand the confusion.
C50 referes to a series of transmissions. C50 also refers to one of the variants of the transmission in the C50 family.
What makes it more confusing is that on the bell housing on some C50 series transmission can have a C60 stampings.
The JDM transmission is a C56 of the C50 family. The C50 transmission is much older and not used on the JDM MR-S for the manual transmission. It is actually used for a brief period on the MR2 Spyder SMT.
Im referencing your previous post where you have indicated that your transmission is a C56 on post 10.
The C56 is a very common transmission that we have in North America.
I thought all 5speed boxes on the MR2 had an LSD? if so is this one different?
All Euro MR boxes do have LSD. Most Japanese import boxes don't.
Bit confused why I'd the he JDM box with LSD so desirable. Different gear ratios?
Quote from: Newbie57 on August 6, 2019, 09:07Bit confused why I'd the he JDM box with LSD so desirable. Different gear ratios?
because it's got an LSD and the JDM gear ratios and final drive ratio.
Fwiw, I checked my UK car and MR-S over the Weekend. My UK car has C52 and the MR-S has a C56, as stamped on the engine bay plate.
The C56 transmission is the most common transmission for the MR-S, Spyder as well as some other Toyota products, and it is not an exclusive JDM transmission. It comes with an LSD as an option in some markets.
In the US the LSD was an option for the last two years the car was offered.
In the US at one time you could buy this transmission new at the dealer with and with out the LSD. Its not a special transmission and it has many of the issues that is shared with many of the other variants being a bit weak particularly the third gear and the synchronizers which can fall out of alignment or the input and output bearings failing.
If you guys are interested in this transmission you can probably do a trade with the US market because many on my side want the Roadster transmission because it is far more exotic.
Im sorry to belabor the point and cause offense to others as it is not my intention to do so. I just want to point out information that may be of benefit by chance some come across this transmission in another market and are interested in its attributes over what you have come to believe on anecdotal experience to come to some sensible conclusion that it may not be built better for the Japanese market.
Long thread with lots of info here, but what I want to know is ... did anybody take this up and obtain the rocking horse poo gearbox?
If none of our members are going to make use of it, I may purchase it and keep it in reserve for a rainy day when I start to use my 2 on the motorway less.
Quote from: househead on August 6, 2019, 19:28Long thread with lots of info here, but what I want to know is ... did anybody take this up and obtain the rocking horse poo gearbox?
If none of our members are going to make use of it, I may purchase it and keep it in reserve for a rainy day when I start to use my 2 on the motorway less.
As far as I klnow, Dean still has it.
Sent Dean an email so hopefully will bag this depending on cost.
Almost instant reply ... he sold it earlier today unfortunately. Hoping it went to one of our members!