MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Workshop => Appearance Related => Topic started by: mr mr2 on July 30, 2019, 20:31

Title: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: mr mr2 on July 30, 2019, 20:31
82E335B4-FCEE-45C9-855A-29BE6FAAA37C.jpeg just got this today fantastic quality can't wait to fit it excellent service from ropey racing 880573AE-F503-4BA7-ACE6-A420020AB9AB.jpeg
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Topdownman on July 30, 2019, 21:05
Thats going to change the look!

Do you cut out the louvred section or mount it over the top?

Looking forward to the fitted photos.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: mr mr2 on July 30, 2019, 21:20
Cut lol
Spyder lee on YouTube did a how to
But I'm scared lol

But can't fault ropey racing with this kit can't wait to get it on
They might be doing a front kit
Now that I'm really interested in
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: mr mr2 on August 6, 2019, 19:37
This should get some fresh air to my pod filter 8251C365-8729-4B9E-86EE-57A5A8867A42.jpeg8251C365-8729-4B9E-86EE-57A5A8867A42.jpeg
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: mr mr2 on August 19, 2019, 19:59
3E4B1BE5-982F-4682-89F9-38B18864E88E.jpegall fitted
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: shnazzle on August 19, 2019, 20:26
Quote from: mr mr2 on August 19, 2019, 19:593E4B1BE5-982F-4682-89F9-38B18864E88E.jpegall fitted
Any purpose served?
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: stewart@boro on August 19, 2019, 20:27
Looks good Dave 8)
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: mr mr2 on August 19, 2019, 20:50
It's supposed to aid with air flow
But not so sure
Looks wise I like it
Liked it when spyderlee did his on YouTube
And I do like my mr2 to stand out lol
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: shnazzle on August 19, 2019, 21:42
Quote from: mr mr2 on August 19, 2019, 20:50It's supposed to aid with air flow
But not so sure
Looks wise I like it
Liked it when spyderlee did his on YouTube
And I do like my mr2 to stand out lol
That you do! It does look quite "race car"
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Petrus on August 19, 2019, 21:55
The wing design is not to my taste but your combo with the deck vent and colour scheme is the in my beholding eye most pleasing morph yet! And it sure stands out; objective achieved in an imo positive way.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: m1tch on August 20, 2019, 06:59
Will be interesting to see what that does considering no real amount of airflow hits the rear engine lid as the rear window has too sharp of an angle for smooth airflow.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Nvy on August 20, 2019, 07:31
In order for this to work you would have to use vortex generators glued/mounted on a hardtop so the air does not separate and moves down the rear window. If one wanted to cut their engine lid to improve airflow a beneficial would be to cut some of it in the left and right corner close to the window and cover it with mesh. There is lower pressure zone there.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: m1tch on August 20, 2019, 07:50
Quote from: Nvy on August 20, 2019, 07:31In order for this to work you would have to use vortex generators glued/mounted on a hardtop so the air does not separate and moves down the rear window. If one wanted to cut their engine lid to improve airflow a beneficial would be to cut some of it in the left and right corner close to the window and cover it with mesh. There is lower pressure zone there.

I am thinking about vortex generators on my hard top, need to do a tuft test first though, its also the reason why I took off the TTE Banana spoiler on mine, was only dead weight.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Petrus on August 20, 2019, 10:56
Quote from: Nvy on August 20, 2019, 07:31If one wanted to cut their engine lid to improve airflow a beneficial would be to cut some of it in the left and right corner close to the window and cover it with mesh. There is lower pressure zone there.

That would suck cool air out and impede flow over the engine.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Nvy on August 20, 2019, 13:43
Quote from: Petrus on August 20, 2019, 10:56
Quote from: Nvy on August 20, 2019, 07:31If one wanted to cut their engine lid to improve airflow a beneficial would be to cut some of it in the left and right corner close to the window and cover it with mesh. There is lower pressure zone there.

That would suck cool air out and impede flow over the engine.

Maybe but it could be used to cool down some intercooler Ferrari style. I wanted to point out that what he did just doesnt work, its for pure aesthetics.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Petrus on August 20, 2019, 14:42
Quote from: Nvy on August 20, 2019, 13:43Maybe but it could be used to cool down some intercooler Ferrari style. I wanted to point out that what he did just doesnt work, its for pure aesthetics.

The TRD spoiler is a styling throw back linking to the SW20 Turbo TRD 2000GT Wide Body.
As such it is quite cool imo.
As a rear wing a cheap Chinese 3D one on higher mounts is more effective.

(https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.geocities.ws%2Fmr2_mart%2Ftrd2000gt03.JPG&hash=156bf0d54e193daa33839c7be7f26267)
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: mr mr2 on August 20, 2019, 16:51
It's quite addictive modding cars
Now my others projects are totally standard and I will keep them that way
But my mr2 can't stop it lol
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: lgriffiths on August 20, 2019, 22:50
@Nvy
Why are you so sure it's purely aesthetic?

It seems to be designed on the premise there's lower pressure on the lid, so air is leaving the engine bay here. Seems a reasonable assumption?

So if we're saying this is how the system is driven, i.e. lower pressure on the lid than in the enginebay, then enlarging the exit will increase enginebay mass flow...







Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Nvy on August 21, 2019, 06:02
Quote from: lgriffiths on August 20, 2019, 22:50@Nvy
Why are you so sure it's purely aesthetic?

It seems to be designed on the premise there's lower pressure on the lid, so air is leaving the engine bay here. Seems a reasonable assumption?

So if we're saying this is how the system is driven, i.e. lower pressure on the lid than in the enginebay, then enlarging the exit will increase enginebay mass flow...









Because the way its designed, the shape of it would create a low pressure zone but only if the air is passing through. The hood vents are working that way. Also the placement of it is not where the lower pressure zone is, its closer to the window thats why I suggested the cut outs. Have a look on fiero or opel speedster(its called differently in UK) engine lids, I have the feeling their lids work but they are not shaped like this.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: mr mr2 on August 21, 2019, 13:13
All I no is
It looks good
And if it gets the hot air out the bay quicker that means better air flow for my pod filter which is behind the battery
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: lgriffiths on August 22, 2019, 07:33
Quote from: Nvy on August 21, 2019, 06:02The hood vents are working that way.
Hood vents are not design this way - the shape is to control the exit angle of the flow and to stop bird poop hitting the engine. The flow occurs due to the pressure differential between inside and outside the enginebay. Think of them as guide vanes & poop protectors.


Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Petrus on August 22, 2019, 10:59
Quote from: lgriffiths on August 22, 2019, 07:33Hood vents are not design this way - the shape is to control the exit angle of the flow and to stop bird poop hitting the engine. The flow occurs due to the pressure differential between inside and outside the enginebay. Think of them as guide vanes & poop protectors.




The OEM louvres have a large tray fitted underneath. Eeven if you´d cut out the whole louvre panel, the engine would still be kept free form whatever.
With the tray fitted, there is very, véry little airflow form the louvres and what little does flow out is coming from the cool side. The conclusion must be that the OEM louvres/tray design is about aesthetics, not airflow through the engine room.
Take the tray out and the engine room airflow changes, affecting the drag/lift too, however slightly.
Mount the TTE spoiler and things change*.
Mount the TTE ducktail and things change*.
Mount the TRD wing and things change*.

* with the tray mounted it only changes the drag/lift; with the tray removed it also affects airflow in the engine room.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: lgriffiths on August 22, 2019, 11:49
Fair point about the OE setup, almost completely blocked off. Could be there for heat soak...?
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Petrus on August 22, 2019, 13:32
Quote from: lgriffiths on August 22, 2019, 11:49Fair point about the OE setup, almost completely blocked off. Could be there for heat soak...?

Hûh???

If you mean absorbing heat than no; it has no mass; just sheet metal.
Imo the louveres are a cool styling bit and the tray to keep debris and water from the engine.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: H1GRM on August 22, 2019, 14:10
So does the "stock" car not have the electric fan under the louvres?
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Petrus on August 22, 2019, 14:19
Quote from: H1GRM on August 22, 2019, 14:10So does the "stock" car not have the electric fan under the louvres?

No.
It has a metal tray.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/AFQAAOSwW6BaC5b9/s-l500.jpg)
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: H1GRM on August 22, 2019, 16:11
I wonder how good the fan is at actually dispersing the heat.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: lgriffiths on August 22, 2019, 18:26
Quote from: Petrus on August 22, 2019, 13:32Hûh???

If you mean absorbing heat than no; it has no mass; just sheet metal.

Heat soak is when things you're trying to keep cool soak up heat from something hot when its not moving as there's no airflow to keep it cool. After a hard drive, things are pretty toasty in that engine-bay.

Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Petrus on August 22, 2019, 18:58


So what I thought.
So no, no mass.

Btw, the engine room gets less hot than you would expect; léss than the front engine layout; there is a topic about that ;-)

It appéars to get a lot hotter because when you open the lid or are even behind the car, you feel the heat of the cat and muffler and yes those dó get hot, hotter than the traditional layout.
The engine however is in front of that, cooled by water ánd enveloped by a stream of fresh, cool ambient air from both side intakes.
When under load, so when exhaust/cat get hót, that airflow takes the heat immediately out the back; góne.
Only when hardly moving or stopped, do the muffle/hat radiate heat to the engine but that is per definition unloaded so not an issue.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Joesson on August 22, 2019, 19:58
Quote from: H1GRM on August 22, 2019, 16:11I wonder how good the fan is at actually dispersing the heat.

iirc @Ardent has a fan on the engine lid of his turbo.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: lgriffiths on August 22, 2019, 20:17
Quote from: Petrus on August 22, 2019, 18:58So what I thought.
So no, no mass.

Adding mass would make heat soak worse  as it would get up to temp when moving, then radiate the stored heat when your not moving.

To reduce heat soak you want to have a way for heat to get out, might not be for this at all, just a thought.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Ardent on August 22, 2019, 23:35
Quote from: Joesson on August 22, 2019, 19:58
Quote from: H1GRM on August 22, 2019, 16:11I wonder how good the fan is at actually dispersing the heat.

iirc @Ardent has a fan on the engine lid of his turbo.

@H1GRM
Good enough. Wearing shorts as often as I can, this is how I discovered which way the fan works. I got out after a drive, heat was enough to kick the fan in and could feel the warm air around my legs. I was surprised as imiagined the fan would suck the warm out the top, but in fact blows the ambient air in, which then exits down, sides and rear. like when you are moving.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: 1979scotte on August 23, 2019, 06:18
Quote from: H1GRM on August 22, 2019, 14:10So does the "stock" car not have the electric fan under the louvres?

No that's a tte turbo extra.
Sucks air into the engine bay.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: H1GRM on August 23, 2019, 06:56
@s12vea sucks air in or hot air out?
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Petrus on August 23, 2019, 08:34
Quote from: Ardent on August 22, 2019, 23:35I was surprised as imiagined the fan would suck the warm out the top, but in fact blows the ambient air in, which then exits down, sides and rear. like when you are moving.

Indeed surprising and .... questionable:
1. When on the move, the louvres are in a turbulent, lower pressure drag area behind the hood.
2. The side vents take in air.
3. Sucking in aire from a low pressure area, into the engine room, raising the pressure, has less air coming in the side vents...
4. When not on the move the natural tendency for hot air is to ríse and going wíth the flow generally more effective than going against it.
5. I don´t get it.

On an NA though, a fan set up is contraproductive. It hampers flow when not blowing, is needless extra weight, sapping the battery thus engine and an extra complication potentially causing problems.
There is nothing better that natural air circulation; like thermosyphon; like gravity; the default is that it works.



On an u
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Carolyn on August 23, 2019, 08:51
When I saw Ardent's fan set-up, I thought the blowing down was weird.

Then I looked at where the heat was (the turbo and it's manifold), and where the potential heat soak is and blowing down made sense.

On my supercharger car, I've set the fan to blow up.  That's because the exhaust sits above the supercharger and it's ducting.

One has to remember that 'on the move' might well mean crawling along in traffic(or sitting still at the lights/junction etc.), when the side vents aren't doing much.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: shnazzle on August 23, 2019, 09:28
Air doesn't "flow" over the grill at the back. It tumbles all over and around it. Especially at speed.
Hood up, the airflow actually seems to come back towards the rear window and towards the passenger side (driver's side for you Petrus). I've noticed this tons of times in the rain at speed. The water pulls almost horizontally across the windscreen. Not downwards and towards the back of the car.
Hood down, you'll notice that if your wind deflector is up and it's a bit on the loose side, at high speed it actually folds inwards towards the interior. Mine's not THAT loose, so the force is quite big on it.

When I had my TTE banana spoiler, it didn't do this. Not sure what that means as I'm no airflow expert.

Easily sorted with an experiment with some strips of paper and tape I guess. Drive around and see if the strips just dance around like mad and fly off the car or whether they lie flat against the engine lid at speed.

In any case, I'm almost certain that next to no air "flows" in via the grill. The only evidence I've seen of any "flow" is nearer the sides. On a rainy day on a dirty car, you can see streaks on the lleft and right sides of the engine lid. I've seen someone put vents there. That makes more sense.
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: s12vea on August 23, 2019, 10:42
Quote from: H1GRM on August 23, 2019, 06:56@s12vea sucks air in or hot air out?

Sucks air in
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Petrus on August 23, 2019, 13:43
Quote from: shnazzle on August 23, 2019, 09:28Air doesn't "flow" over the grill at the back. It tumbles all over and around it. Especially at speed.
...
In any case, I'm almost certain that next to no air "flows" in via the grill.[ /quote]

Hence my reasoning that sucking the air oút of the engine is the most logical:
- low pressure/turbulence above the louvres
- side entering air
- laws of nature: hot air rises

Even at low/no speed it seems odd to go against the flow, literally.

It´s the way it is though; the TTE fan sucks. Euh, sucks air ín ;-)

The spoilers.... that is a bit more complicated and depending on which one we are talking about. The TTE, TRD, ducktail and after market wing all have different effects, following the same principles ofcourse.

p.s. had a look on the web; kew TOM´s did something to this effect.

And here it is:

(http://www.mk84.com/gallery/tomsmrs/toms-mrs10.jpg)

They put scoops facing forward, besides the top and two entries on either side of the rear lid. Can´t see wheather is has a fan in the chamber, blowing down, but it should.
Now, this is not proof of anythng ofcourse; just an illustration of what TOM´s did.

(https://images.cdn.circlesix.co/image/1/1000/0/uploads/posts/2016/08/eacbae0c7965194d8f0517d90c86a9af.jpeg)
Title: Re: Just got this from ropeyracing
Post by: Ardent on August 23, 2019, 17:35
Just to add another small variable.
Remember the fan only kicks in at a certain temp. It's not on all the time.
If you are moving it generally doesn't, It has, but rare.

We all seem to agree on the general normal air flow. The fan only kicks in and generates some, when there isn't.

Whether it is air or water flow.
Looking at the lovers and trays underneath. They line up rather nicely with rounded edge of the back box heat shield. I don't believe that is by accident. Equally the slim rear vent.

On the subject of air flow/turbulence. Driving along today windows down so air flow all over the place.
Then zap kapow, a wasp entered stage left and smacked itself into the rev counter binnicle face first and stayed there the rest of the ride. Dazed and confused.