Hi all,
I took my 03 roadster to Toyota for its MOT this year. It fails on its emissions lambda of 1.06 and Toyota have been unable to get it to pass. They have apparently cleaned up the sensors and done everything they can bar replace the exhaust (for £1600).
The Cat was replaced 2 years ago and the O2 sensors were all changed last year.
Oil usage has been minimal, but I'm wondering if I have engine damage.
I've been offered £175 in scrap for the car which seems a real shame.
Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Failing on high lambda alone sounds like an air leak in the exhaust.
Maybe the cat wasn't fitted right last year, maybe the exhaust box has rotted somewhere. Most likely where it connects to the cat or at the tail pipe.
If you can confirm it, get a good replacement from a breaker.
Quote from: jonbill on September 7, 2019, 21:54Failing on high lambda alone sounds like an air leak in the exhaust.
Maybe the cat wasn't fitted right last year, maybe the exhaust box has rotted somewhere. Most likely where it connects to the cat or at the tail pipe.
If you can confirm it, get a good replacement from a breaker.
Indeed. Please do NOT spend 1600 on a new exhaust.
A manifold can be had for 100, cat for 120 and used backbox for free (maybe postage)
Please don't scrap it for £175! We must try if we can to keep these little cars alive! Hope you get it sorted soon. :)
£175 is an insult. As other members have suggested it may be a simple air leak at one of the joints. Have they assured you that a new exhaust would rectify the fault? i.e. Have they identified a leak or hole in the existing system?
You may notice we aren't thr biggest fans of mainstream garages.
It's all too easy for them to write off our cars or tag a massive price tag on speculative work.
Not many places can be bothered to investigate issues with "older" cars that don't spit out a clear error message on a computer.
We can be bothered! And we'll try to sort it either for free (our preference, and often the case with these cars) or for as little as possible
@BogalogPlease please please don't take your 2 to a MR T main stealer once out of warranty all they do is take the mickey.
I have had various run ins with Rover and Toyota main dealers with brand new cars.
@Joesson had Toyota replace his coolant they didn't even check is rad a short while later it all had to be replaced again.
Also our cars have been out of production for almost 13 years most of their young mechanics have hardly ever touched one.
This will not be a difficult fix. There may even be a friendly mot tester near you.
Quote from: Bogalog on September 7, 2019, 21:28They have apparently cleaned up the sensors and done everything they can bar replace the exhaust (for £1600).
The Cat was replaced 2 years ago and the O2 sensors were all changed last year.
Oil usage has been minimal, but I'm wondering if I have engine damage.
"Everything they can..." Does that include the obvious and simple stuff like a clean air filter and clean or replaced MAF and a fresh set of spark plugs?
Lambda 1.06 is very lean indeed for idle or even fast idle.
As mentioned above, leaking exhaust does sound like the most likely culprit.
Although you're not far off passing (1.03), so you may find that an ecu reset (undo Neg terminal on battery perhaps while you clean the MAF with some carb/egr cleaner) and a good ol' thrashing on the motorway does the trick.
Cleaning the MAF is often overlooked because "you don't need to clean the MAF, they're self-cleaning".... Right....
Ask them to book a retest for a time, on the way over take the long way, get it warm, then drop it a cog and do a good few hard pulls through the rev range. Drop it while it's hot.
There's no way the car would allow an idle that lean unless the MAF was knackered or you're running some jazzy intake, so its o2 sensors must not be reading it. Meaning the leak is likely after the manifold.
The invisible one would be cat flexis. Depending on where your last cat came from, very possible.
Doing a smoke leak test on the exhaust would quickly expose the leak. Or the old piece of paper on a stick and placing it around all the main seals to see if it starts flapping.
Scotte's mention of my experience with MrT is totally accurate, in my defence I must stress that was before I found mr2roc.org!
Since then I have maintained the car myself and take it to a local un franchised garage for MOT.
Bearing in mind that the previous owner and myself both had service reports of a leaking water pump from MrT this item is doing well as it is now eight years in my possession!
This Club has helped many owners, who had little or no experience with spannering, rescue their 2, please let that happen for you.
Quote from: Bugster_MR2 on September 8, 2019, 07:46Quote from: Bogalog on September 7, 2019, 21:28They have apparently cleaned up the sensors and done everything they can bar replace the exhaust (for £1600).
The Cat was replaced 2 years ago and the O2 sensors were all changed last year.
Oil usage has been minimal, but I'm wondering if I have engine damage.
"Everything they can..." Does that include the obvious and simple stuff like a clean air filter and clean or replaced MAF and a fresh set of spark plugs?
During the four services that MrT carried out on my 2 there was no record of replacing the plugs and air filter nor cleaning the MAF.
They did wash and vacuum the car!
Nor do they remove the undertrays, had they done so they would have found the sorry state that my radiator was in.
Wow, thanks for all the replies!
I'm going to call Toyota tomorrow and get a run down of everything they tried to get the car to pass. I know for sure they ran it as hot as they could get it, and I gave it a good blast on the motorway before dropping it off.
It had a full service from Toyota about a month ago, but I'm unsure if they replaced the air filter and plugs.
I'll look into cleaning the MAF for sure.
Does anyone have any recommended garages? I'm in Bristol but I'd be willing to have a nice drive to somewhere that specialises in 2s (or is willing to help track down my faults).
Thanks again
Josh
The 1ZZ FE engine in the Two, is to be found in the Avensis, the Celica, the Rav 4. In other words, it's as common as muck!
You don't need the D(St)ealer, or a Two 'specialist', just a competent well trusted local garage that's been in business for some time.
A competent mechanic can sort this one.
Ask you neighbours who they use, Google locally and check reviews....
Quote from: Bogalog on September 8, 2019, 18:59Wow, thanks for all the replies!
Josh
That's the way we roll.
This can, and will be sorted for a fraction of the price quoted.
Sound advice from
@Carolyn as ever.
These cars, as a whole package, are special.
The engine in isolation, is not.
I have heard of Bonsai garage in Weston, near you and a Japanese expert. Not used them myself but the name stuck in my mind!
Is it a standard single exit exhaust? I have had to stuff a rag up the 2nd tailpipe on twin exit exhausts to get thru the lambda many times.
Just a thought...
Quote from: mr2garageswindon on September 11, 2019, 12:27Is it a standard single exit exhaust? I have had to stuff a rag up the 2nd tailpipe on twin exit exhausts to get thru the lambda many times.
Just a thought...
No it has a TTE exhaust, I've never heard of doing that!
So I cleaned the MAF sensor and replaced the air filter (sensor was black and the Toyota obviously didn't bother replacing the air filter a few weeks ago for the service. I wonder what they actually did)
I'm booked in to a garage in Bristol to check for exhaust leaks and redo the MOT. Will reply with the findings
Thanks again all
Quote from: Bogalog on September 11, 2019, 22:54So I cleaned the MAF sensor and replaced the air filter (sensor was black and the Toyota obviously didn't bother replacing the air filter a few weeks ago for the service. I wonder what they actually did)
Unfortunately this does not surprise me glad you've seen the light.
Quote from: Bogalog on September 11, 2019, 22:54Quote from: mr2garageswindon on September 11, 2019, 12:27Is it a standard single exit exhaust? I have had to stuff a rag up the 2nd tailpipe on twin exit exhausts to get thru the lambda many times.
Just a thought...
No it has a TTE exhaust, I've never heard of doing that!
So I cleaned the MAF sensor and replaced the air filter (sensor was black and the Toyota obviously didn't bother replacing the air filter a few weeks ago for the service. I wonder what they actually did)
I'm booked in to a garage in Bristol to check for exhaust leaks and redo the MOT. Will reply with the findings
Thanks again all
And another victim of the (st/d)ealers services.
Just never fails. Trusted independents is the way forward.
Blocking one of the pipes is indeed a trick. Alternatively the "fast idle" needs to be a bit faster :) Basically go get enough flow out the back to push out what is coming out of the cat. Not recycle ambient air from your exhaust.
Rag up the other tail pipe and it will be fine.
Had to it on a Corvette Stingray 2015 the other day, that has 4 pipes out the back.
Suprised the MOT tester didn't try it first of all save all the guessing whats wrong.... Nothing is wrong.
Had this on another car (which had twin pipes). Apparently at idle there's not enough pressure coming out, so the probe is getting some of the outside air and throwing off the reading?
EDIT: What Shnazzle said :D
Quote from: Bogalog on September 11, 2019, 22:54Quote from: mr2garageswindon on September 11, 2019, 12:27Is it a standard single exit exhaust? I have had to stuff a rag up the 2nd tailpipe on twin exit exhausts to get thru the lambda many times.
Just a thought...
No it has a TTE exhaust, I've never heard of doing that!
So I cleaned the MAF sensor and replaced the air filter (sensor was black and the Toyota obviously didn't bother replacing the air filter a few weeks ago for the service. I wonder what they actually did)
I'm booked in to a garage in Bristol to check for exhaust leaks and redo the MOT. Will reply with the findings
Thanks again all
Bingo. Let us know the results. :) Also a good idea to stick the probe in the second outlet if it fails on the first, like suggested by others on here.
Just wanted to pop back here with how things went
I finally found a garage willing to take a look at it, and they ended up capping one of the exhaust pipes to get it through the MOT. I'm planning on putting the tailpipe back on, and just undoing that when it comes to next years MOT.
Many thanks for all the helpful replies
Josh
Glad you got it sorted
Main dealers are in general, fooking useless, someone above used the word mechanic, nah, technician, thats what they like to be called, problem solving via an app
Always use a trusted skilled mechanic, they are about
Rob