Hi All,
Looking for some advice on TTE exhaust on turbo applications.
Does anyone happen to know or have experience in the bhp limitations of the TTE exhaust when used in conjunction with a turbo.
I have a 2.5" down pipe, going straight into a 2.5" malian sports cat then into the standard TTE exhaust.
I've just made 233bhp on my turbo build but was looking for more, hoping I've got some more ponies to be had by an exhaust change.
Currently eyeing up the malian twin centre exit (lotus style).
Cheers
Gary
Some of the others will reply shortly but I can say that its quite small on the inside so if you are looking for more just go with custom exhaust. Wont be much more than malian stuff.
Yes it does restrict, my old setup made similar power with tte exhaust and mapper said exhaust was holding it it back. A more free flowing exhaust would help your setup for sure.
The tte exhaust hold there money so the sale would prob cover most of the cost of replacement, team moon or SP are the only off the shelf backbox I would recommend but pretty rare. Prob best to get one made
Any reason why you want more?
A roadster with that power is a very swift car.
Cheeky I know as mine has much more grunt but it does become pointless on the road and around track the 2s light weight makes it quick anyways.
Also reliability wise for stock engine and gearbox do you want much more? I wouldn't.
You definitely want the tte gone but no rush why not enjoy as is for the time being and then go exhaust and standalone at the same time.
The logical reasoning:
In the standard set up, the breathing improves:
- marginally if at all with the pre-cats out
- a bit, definitely noticable but not a lot, with the OEM muffler replace by a straight through
- a lót with a decat pipe; nów the better manifold and quite good OEM intake show their worth
Apply the above to a lot more gas flowing because of charging it.
As a footnote I am not convinced the TTE flows any better than stock, most likely it flows less. With the noise regulations as the given and TTE being a dealer option, it is not complicated to think through why.
Quote from: 1979scotte on September 15, 2019, 09:54Any reason why you want more?
A roadster with that power is a very swift car.
Cheeky I know as mine has much more grunt but it does become pointless on the road and around track the 2s light weight makes it quick anyways.
Also reliability wise for stock engine and gearbox do you want much more? I wouldn't.
You definitely want the tte gone but no rush why not enjoy as is for the time being and then go exhaust and standalone at the same time.
I suppose its just one of those things always wanting more!
In all honesty I'll probably only change the exhaust if something comes up at a reasonable price other wise I'll wait until forging and going with a proper ecu.
You're right with this amount of power it's certainly makes for a very interesting drive and you soon run out of road.
Quote from: Petrus on September 15, 2019, 09:59The logical reasoning:
In the standard set up, the breathing improves:
- marginally if at all with the pre-cats out
- a bit, definitely noticable but not a lot, with the OEM muffler replace by a straight through
- a lót with a decat pipe; nów the better manifold and quite good OEM intake show their worth
Apply the above to a lot more gas flowing because of charging it.
As a footnote I am not convinced the TTE flows any better than stock, most likely it flows less. With the noise regulations as the given and TTE being a dealer option, it is not complicated to think through why.
Noboby thinks the tte flows better than stock but it does sound much better.
For the above turbo application it needs to go.
I had one on the V6 for a while and I wouldn't recommend it.
Quote from: Gaz2405 on September 15, 2019, 10:03Quote from: 1979scotte on September 15, 2019, 09:54Any reason why you want more?
A roadster with that power is a very swift car.
Cheeky I know as mine has much more grunt but it does become pointless on the road and around track the 2s light weight makes it quick anyways.
Also reliability wise for stock engine and gearbox do you want much more? I wouldn't.
You definitely want the tte gone but no rush why not enjoy as is for the time being and then go exhaust and standalone at the same time.
I suppose its just one of those things always wanting more!
In all honesty I'll probably only change the exhaust if something comes up at a reasonable price other wise I'll wait until forging and going with a proper ecu.
You're right with this amount of power it's certainly makes for a very interesting drive and you soon run out of road.
Do you know what she weighs?
My FL with turbo was 1050kg I think. Coilovers Style bar.
On power to weight its bloody fast.
You're around 220 bhp per ton similar too an Elise 111R or a Chimera 4.0
The TTE even holds back a 2zz, let alone 8-10psi of boost :)
All said and done it's a pretty crap exhaust but I do so love the sound hehe
Quote from: shnazzle on September 15, 2019, 10:37The TTE even holds back a 2zz, let alone 8-10psi of boost :)
All said and done it's a pretty crap exhaust but I do so love the sound hehe
I think Toyota dropped the ball by not designed a bit more sporty sound in the standard exhaust but think it more mûhhhh that a TTE exhaust is basically a ricer option.
Attractive ricer though.
Ok, do laugh but I have seriously contemplated fitting
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KbcAAOSwdEhdBg~v/s-l500.jpg)
and only the total cost stopped me.
:o
now bare in mind i've only driven mine on and off the trailer but it wasn't ridiculously loud - it's literally a down pipe, sports cat and out. I'm not sure how it will be at rev's but the turbo doesn't half quieten it down - you're welcome to try it out as mines not going to be on the road anytime soon
Here´s an article on turbo and sound:
http://designingsound.org/2014/07/30/turbocharging-and-its-effect-on-our-soundscape/
I have a mint condition Team Moon duals catback sitting on the shelf. Will it give my TTE turbo (currently with TTE catback) any more ponies, or is the main cat the serious restriction?
Quote from: Bugster_MR2 on September 15, 2019, 22:02I have a mint condition Team Moon duals catback sitting on the shelf. Will it give my TTE turbo (currently with TTE catback) any more ponies, or is the main cat the serious restriction?
You have a team moon???? Where'd you get that from?
The main cat is the biggest restriction. No point changing backbox without changing cat first.
So, might as well sell the team moon to me
As already stated today elsewhere. Every day is a school day.
What the chuff is a team moon.
I imagine it is not the England XV bending over and dropping their shorts.
Just as a point of order.
I'm calling dibs which shnazzle hasn't, prior to it ever being put up for sale.
(Even if I don't know what it is)
Quote from: Ardent on September 15, 2019, 22:24As already stated today elsewhere. Every day is a school day.
What the chuff is a team moon.
I imagine it is not the England XV bending over and dropping their shorts.
Just as a point of order.
I'm calling dibs which shnazzle hasn't, prior to it ever being put up for sale.
(Even if I don't know what it is)
You wouldn't want it Jase! It's basically a straight-through pipe. It's not known to be quiet, that's for sure. Think sp exhaust, but louder and more raspy. But it flows.
Quote from: shnazzle on September 15, 2019, 22:48You wouldn't want it Jase! It's basically a straight-through pipe. It's not known to be quiet, that's for sure. Think sp exhaust, but louder and more raspy. But it flows.
The nice thing about Team Moon pots is that they (also?) made them using aluminium.
If anyone has a picture of a team moon, bang one up. Thinking a out making my own from the cat back.
The Team Moon looks exactly like the OEM pot with two outlets.
Two outlets is only for visual purposes. It only adds weight and is difficult to design with good flow.
You can easily see why, if the muffler internals design does not disrupt it, this type flows best and has the least material:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Bi4AAOSwdg5dU8QK/s-l1600.jpg)
I don´t know what´s in there but the best damping would be the pipe going into an expansion chamber and then ´continue´ with absorbtion damping. Very simple, effective and flowing thumbs up.
Anyway, the Achilles heel with the MR2 is lack of space thus short pipes and tight bends. A secondary issue is the location; the heat; in front engined cars the exhaust heat is taken away under the car.
Bottom line is that you want a replacement system to straighten the flow as much as possible and OUT!!
The rest is easy to figure out ;-)
Have a look at:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/_6f_OJedDo08/Tc8-0UINpVI/AAAAAAABN8E/dyr0UNe84WI/s800/dynomax2.jpg)
With all repsect and I totally get the looks but fúnctionally the two issues are obvious; extra tight bends ánd rerouting heat back trough the engine room.
Apart from the legal issues and the looks, flów wise the formula is:
- decat header
- decat midpipe
- ´straight through´ muffler with exit on RHS
For a turbo the same applies minus the header and with the advantage of muffling by the turbo; as straight as possible and OUT!
Quote from: Bugster_MR2 on September 15, 2019, 22:02I have a mint condition Team Moon duals catback sitting on the shelf. Will it give my TTE turbo (currently with TTE catback) any more ponies, or is the main cat the serious restriction?
Team moon is very free flowing and one of the louder exhausts for the roadster. Brad has one on his sp240 years ago and it was the only sp turbo to make 240bhp which was believed partly down to the exhaust.
It will flow better than tte for sure
I think I'm going to get hold of an exhaust flange and some 2.5" pipe and bend my own.
Or ask Malian to make their centre exit lotus style one with just one back box. (or a removable one)
Quote from: Gaz2405 on September 16, 2019, 10:36Or ask Malian to make their centre exit lotus style one with just one back box.
That already exists.
(https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw8/zhf5gt60/products/4201/images/16865/catback-tymrspyder-4-1__64796.1545172913.386.513.jpg?c=2)
The issue is that space limitation then dictates a very slim ´box´.
Also; any such style exhaust has the extra bends and rerouting of heat; form before function.
If you source an old OEM box, you have the flange and bends ready made.
As a perspective here the Fujitsubo solution. It has a free flow main box, a resonator and an additional absorbtion damper:
(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1142/5890/products/3_f072c6b6-d3dc-4e9e-a442-2d087f0ea37c_570x570_crop_top.png?v=1546481775)
The data according to the manufacturer:
Intermediate acceleration
Stock: 3.1 seconds -> Fujitsubo: 3.0 seconds
Maximum output
Stock: 97.6kw (132.8ps) / 6180rpm -> Fujitsubo: 101.2kw (137.6ps) / 6270rpm
Maximum torque
Stock: 170.5N · m (17.4kg · m) / 4290rpm -> Fujitsubo: 173.5N · m (17.7kg · m) / 4240rpm
Weight
Stock: 12.6kg -> Fujitsubo: 11.4kg
Volume idling
Stock: 68dB -> Fujitsubo: 68dB
Middle RPM Sound
Stock: 83dB -> Fujitsubo: 83dB
High RPM Sound
Stock: 93dB -> Fujitsubo: 94dB
Mid RPM Acceleration Sound
Stock: 99dB -> Fujitsubo: 101dB
Quote from: Petrus on September 16, 2019, 11:18Quote from: Gaz2405 on September 16, 2019, 10:36Or ask Malian to make their centre exit lotus style one with just one back box.
That already exists.
(https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-zfvgw8/zhf5gt60/products/4201/images/16865/catback-tymrspyder-4-1__64796.1545172913.386.513.jpg?c=2)
The issue is that space limitation then dictates a very slim ´box´.
Also; any such style exhaust has the extra bends and rerouting of heat; form before function.
If you source an old OEM box, you have the flange and bends ready made.
Brilliant that's the one I'm after....
Here some more wonderfully creative solutions:
(https://www.avb-sports.be/slir/w500-h500-q95/files/product_image/1176137493/00001975.jpg)
and my absolute favorite:
(http://www.eatsleeptinker.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Exhaust1a.jpg)
Quote from: Gaz2405 on September 16, 2019, 11:37Brilliant that's the one I'm after....
Be warned that it is LOUD. It has minimal abosobtion damping only.
Also, the cat is the main restriction.
Thanks I have a 200 cell high flow cat.
Quote from: Gaz2405 on September 16, 2019, 12:15Thanks I have a 200 cell high flow cat.
With turbo and cat you can get away with less muffling.
Im going to build a rear silencer for mine using 2.5" pipe/bends and universal silencer either from ebay or https://jetex.co.uk/custom-exhaust-parts/ , also might go mild steel rather than stainless as its easier for me to fabricate and cheaper as well as being better at absorbing sound, lifespan will be good enough im sure as its not hanging down under the car like a front engine setup. Ive priced it up around £150 for parts i would use depending how big silencer i go with.
Quote from: thetyrant on September 16, 2019, 12:25Im going to build a rear silencer for mine using 2.5" pipe/bends and universal silencer either from ebay or https://jetex.co.uk/custom-exhaust-parts/ ,
I have used their mufflers for DIY on three cars now. Good, durabele stuff but HEAVY. They also have a decibel reducer insert.
Because of the weight I opted for a motorcycle muffler but that has sofar bitten me in the bum.
Quote from: shnazzle on September 15, 2019, 22:06Quote from: Bugster_MR2 on September 15, 2019, 22:02I have a mint condition Team Moon duals catback sitting on the shelf. Will it give my TTE turbo (currently with TTE catback) any more ponies, or is the main cat the serious restriction?
You have a team moon???? Where'd you get that from?
The main cat is the biggest restriction. No point changing backbox without changing cat first.
So, might as well sell the team moon to me
It was on my first MR2 that I bought in 2008. In 2009 I converted it to 2zz with a PPE racekat and MWR header. These three pieces combined made the noise levels unbearable. Would never pass the inspection overe here in Norway. I bought a brand new TTE twin back then, which reduced the noise to perfect level in my opinion.
Had the Team Moon lying here since then. I think I want to try it on my TTE turbo now. :)
It has a magnaflow muffler btw.
(https://i.imgur.com/EZMyc9q.jpg)
This isn't a great pic but that's the sport cat wrapped and then straight out
Quote from: tets on September 18, 2019, 07:19(https://i.imgur.com/EZMyc9q.jpg)
This isn't a great pic but that's the sport cat wrapped and then straight out
Haha! Damn. That's dedication to max flow and early onset deafness
Haha! Damn. That's dedication to max flow and early onset deafness
[/quote]
I was surprised how "quiet" it was when I fired it up to put on the trailer and then get it off and drive it into my unit!!
Quote from: Petrus on September 15, 2019, 09:59As a footnote I am not convinced the TTE flows any better than stock, most likely it flows less. With the noise regulations as the given and TTE being a dealer option, it is not complicated to think through why.
The twin exit is less muffler per exit, so balances out to noisier, but very similar flow - I'm pretty sure the flow similar to stock: I hope so as I declared mine on the insurance, but as a non-performance mod. My main justification is that the TF300 cars were still rated to the same power and I genuinely don't think it makes any performance improvement at all... it's a weight penalty, so the car is arguably a tiny little slower, but it just has a lovely meaty burble and once you get it up to temp there's sometimes some nice little pops too.... I got it because the soundtrack makes me smile, not because it makes the car faster.
I wouldn't put it anywhere near a 2ZZ or a V6 as you're needing to flow at least 40% more gas (40% higher RPM or 50% more cylinders), so it will start to become really restrictive pretty quickly.... I'm sure it does limit forced induction 1ZZ's, but less obvious/easy to say by how much.
Back to Scotte's comment - 230bhp should be plenty, even for track use and unless you're planning on a re-enforced gearbox, custom internals and a LOT of extra cooling mods, you're never going to reliably get much over ~220whp out of a 1ZZ and you're pretty much on that already!
Quote from: tets on September 18, 2019, 09:51I was surprised how "quiet" it was when I fired it up to put on the trailer and then get it off and drive it into my unit!!
Well, you have not revved it at full bore yet??
Th sports cat does not muffle much; just a bit of energy losses in flow friction and heat absorbtion but not the least bit of moderating the waves nor pulses.
It shoúld be louder than a decat with absorbtion damper and that is LOUD.
The Magnaflow is as I understand it an expansion chamber and absorbtion damping combined on a ´straight though´; max muffling while not impeding flow. Too loud even on a cat to get through periodic inspection but in mý opion ok on the road. Just be sensible with the pedal.
Again; a turbo changes things a bit; louder because of bigger bangs but recycling a lot of the energy in the exhaust gasses.
Lóve the wonderful creativity of the not off the peg solutions!!!
That is indeed the most mental exhaust system I've seen on a road-used mr2.
I thought decat pipe was hardcore... That's childplay compared to this.
Why not go whole hog and just do away with the cat? :)
Manifold straight out the back
Quote from: shnazzle on September 20, 2019, 17:32That is indeed the most mental exhaust system I've seen on a road-used mr2.
I thought decat pipe was hardcore... That's childplay compared to this.
Why not go whole hog and just do away with the cat? :)
Manifold straight out the back
I think tets has a turbo but not sure :)
I think tets has a turbo but not sure :)
[/quote]
I do indeed have a turbo - bought as a project car but i'm not sure the shell is worth saving now i've got it to the unit and up in the air.
I've got to say when I first saw the exhaust I immediately thought ASBO car but was very surprised when I fired it up. When I took it off the trailer I had to drive it about 100 yds into my unit and it genuinely didn't hurt my ears but I never revved it over a couple of thousand rpm.
Quote from: tets on September 21, 2019, 08:25it genuinely didn't hurt my ears but I never revved it over a couple of thousand rpm.
That is a wold, no two worlds; throttle bore and revs, of difference.
Have a listen at the sound track of Southern Bell. Nice and sexy up to kK and mid throttle. Definitely too passionate for daily living together towards full bore/ 5k....