Ok i picked up a turbo kit for my 2 yesterday and just trying to work out exactly what it is! ive looked at all images i can find of various setups and it looks like this might be hybrid of the TTE kit and possibly the SP240 kit ?, finding info/details and pictures of these kits now they are so old is proving difficult but parts on this seem very well made and looking forward to getting it all fitted.
I have some pictures ive just taken of the kit i have which i will put below, but first a picture from herecomesthewifes thread on here about jack the Sp240 turbo which looks like same setup i have, certainly manifold, exhaust downpipe and intake pipework anyhows, are these SP240 kit parts as look much better than stock TTE kit ?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160325/4127e20853f25738bc0fc6456a29ef57.jpg)
And engine bay shot before i removed the kit i have..
(http://www.carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2turbokitoldcar.jpg)
here is complete kit of parts ive got
(http://www.carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2turbokit1.jpg)
Manifold
(http://www.carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2turbomanifold.jpg)
Intercooler
(http://www.carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2turboic1.jpg)
If anyone can shed any light on it much appreciated, i will be doing a build thread soon once i get started on it all :D
It's an Silverstone performance turbo kit running low boost due to standard injectors
You bought from Patrick rogue I'm guessing
It will need larger injectors uprated clutch and remap to increase power to 230 ish bhp
Quote from: s12vea on September 29, 2019, 09:21It's an Silverstone performance turbo kit running low boost due to standard injectors
You bought from Patrick rogue I'm guessing
It will need larger injectors uprated clutch and remap to increase power to 230 ish bhp
Except its got a link ecu. Which is way more advanced than the unichip piggyback the SP240 came with.
Ditch the intercooler they're pants.
Quote from: s12vea on September 29, 2019, 09:21It's an Silverstone performance turbo kit running low boost due to standard injectors
You bought from Patrick rogue I'm guessing
It will need larger injectors uprated clutch and remap to increase power to 230 ish bhp
Thanks I thought so, is the SP kit a hybrid of the TTE kit or totally separate do you know ?
Yes I took it off a car that Patrick@Rogue had bought, turns out when I was removing I found that it isn't on stock injectors either which was an added bonus:D no wonder it made 173hp at the hubs on safe map :D.... not sure exactly what the injectors are yet need to do some research on the numbers on them.
Clutch will need doing for sure, I may yet install it all on stock clutch to make sure everything works ok then do clutch afterwards, we will see.
Quote from: 1979scotte on September 29, 2019, 09:49Except its got a link ecu. Which is way more advanced than the unichip piggyback the SP240 came with.
Ditch the intercooler they're pants.
Yep got the Link G4 storm all wired in with AEM wideband etc so plenty of scope :D
Will be going chargecooler in future but will see how the intake temps are on this IC to get everything up and running.
The ic is not great and you'll end up paying for mapping twice.
Sp kit was based on tte turbo. Should be a tb2559. Old hat these days.
Looking at the dyno print a stock clutch should be fine.
Handy if injectors are bigger than stock. They need to be at least 440cc for for bigger boost
Hmm not sure on the injectors now!, initially when removing I could see they were blue and loom connectors had been changed which led me to believe they are not stock, I knew mine were green but on searching for more info on these blue ones it seems some later 1zz cars did get blue ones of more or less same capacity!
I know colour is not identification in itself but I thought they were all green and seeing that someone had modified harness/connectors I took them as being non standard spec, it seems that might not be the case though as ive just popped my coil cover off and checked the harness connectors which are same as these blue injectors!, looks like at some point in its life the car this turbo kit came from has had different injectors which required connector changed, but stock connectors are now fitted though.
They could still be larger capacity and the power it supposedly made on dyno would tie up with that, however the number on injector ive yet to find a match online to see what cc it is, I cant get into map on Ecu to see what setting are on that either until I can get it powered up and source a cable to connect to it.
Mystery continues! but will expect to have to upgrade the injectors I think, if I get lucky and these are higher capacity its a bonus.
For reference the Injectors are branded Denso (well 1 i can make out is at least other 3 it looks like something beginning with A ?? ), all blue in colour and number on denso item is 0150 429 19 if anyone can help identify them ? pics below
Denso branded one pic
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-injectors1.jpg)
Other 3 same colour and looks same externally identical brand on them looks like something beginning with letter A ??
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/mr2-injectors2.jpg)
Surely you can't run different injectors in the same engine.
Can't search that part no.
Quote from: 1979scotte on September 29, 2019, 11:21The ic is not great and you'll end up paying for mapping twice.
Sp kit was based on tte turbo. Should be a tb2559. Old hat these days.
Im mapping myself as required so not an issue that, I just want to get it up and running and then work on chargecooler once im happy.
How much of SP kit was changed from TTE kit? I can see the intake is very different on TTE as that's uses the stock airbox setup. also downpipe/exhaust different as TTE used the stock cat looking at TTE install manual but this kit has a very different layout, I think rear silencer has been changed on this to custom spec but downpipe and cat looks like they might of been SP spec ?
Non of this really matter I just like to know what im starting with :D
Quote from: 1979scotte on September 29, 2019, 11:45Surely you can't run different injectors in the same engine.
Can't search that part no.
I think injectors are all same spec just the branding/marking different which ive seen before, I might send them off to clean and flow test as I cant find anything from that part number
173hp at crank? That's well within stock injector range.
They look like the "newer" injectors of same spec. More holes I believe. Someone here was putting them on a stock setup in the hope it would lead to more power/efficiency. I believe it did nowt. As expected.
Tbh, I'd not run this kit at 230. It's much more suited to 180-190 at crank. If you want more, do yourself a favour and replace the turbo with something more suitable. 180hp then also makes thst intercooler a bit more useful. 230hp is too much for that IC. That's not my opinion. That's measured fact.
So, take the kit. Run it at 6psi. Map it for driveability and smooth transitions over time. Not top end power and nothing else. It makes for a very unpleasant day to day driver.
Potential here for a very smooth and safe turbo kit with almost unnoticeable lag.
Quote from: shnazzle on September 29, 2019, 11:56173hp at crank? That's well within stock injector range.
They look like the "newer" injectors of same spec. More holes I believe. Someone here was putting them on a stock setup in the hope it would lead to more power/efficiency. I believe it did nowt. As expected.
Tbh, I'd not run this kit at 230. It's much more suited to 180-190 at crank. If you want more, do yourself a favour and replace the turbo with something more suitable. 180hp then also makes thst intercooler a bit more useful. 230hp is too much for that IC. That's not my opinion. That's measured fact.
So, take the kit. Run it at 6psi. Map it for driveability and smooth transitions over time. Not top end power and nothing else. It makes for a very unpleasant day to day driver.
Potential here for a very smooth and safe turbo kit with almost unnoticeable lag.
Yes it does look like they are the new stock rate units but would be nice to confirm so I know the limits, I would like to get this kit to sit around 190-200hp at the crank smooth and reliably, im not interested in making anymore than that at this stage as aware of how much more is required to get that to work properly, also i think 200 should be a sweet spot for chassis and as you say making a peaky car is not a fun car.
Dynapack graph I have (see below) shows it 173hp at the hubs not crank, im told that was on the kit exactly as removed so I questioned the fuelling as to me that's more like 225hp at the crank! (usually around x1.3 ratio on a dynapack hub to crank number) which to me the stock injectors wouldn't do safely ? especially on a returnless fuel system like this.
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/mr2turbodyno1.jpg)
Stock injectors won't do 225 crank not a chance.
Get some 440 injectors.
I liked my SP240 made 235 crank rocket ship it was.
I just wanted more and with piggyback and intercooler being a bit pants seemed better to move it on than modify. Also as Dan proved you can put something better together for not much more money using the ecumaster group buy.
Those turbos are proper old fitted to saab 9000.
The above setup will be fun just install check everything works and enjoy for a bit.
Yes not the newest tech out there but If I can get around 200 reliable/drivable crank hp It will do for now until I decide if im going to go any further, I know I can go chargercooler and up boost or change turbo and get 230+ hp if I want to but in no rush to do that.
Ive spent many years in past chasing numbers and now in my old age im just after something brisk I can use without too much hassle, last forced induction setup I built was on M X 5 with supercharger from a mini cooperS, initial setup was 190hp and bullet proof on road and track, got greedy after a year of that so fitted a bigger charger which pushed it upto 240hp but it was never as nice to drive as with smaller charger, ended back to stock and sold after 6months.
I got a reasonable deal on this kit I think (lot less than advertised) and with the G4+ Ecu, EP baffled sump (selling that I think) and other bits I think I would of struggled to build up something similar for same sort of price as I did the numbers before committing to this setup, hopefully I don't regret it!
The Elise Parts baffled sump I think I will sell as I think the oil return fitting is too low and more suitedto the 2zz n/a motor it was designed for, so rather than fit another higher up I might as well drill my pretty new stock sump and get some money back from the EP sump.
These turbo cars don't like the oil return being too low that's for sure. And if its for the road shouldn't need it.
Quote from: 1979scotte on September 29, 2019, 13:28These turbo cars don't like the oil return being too low that's for sure. And if its for the road shouldn't need it.
Yes that was my thinking, It will be going on track but mainly short sprint events so extra baffles over stock shouldn't be an issue, I will be adding an oil cooler to increase capacity/cooling etc once all up an running.
Nearly ready to start installing this lot and will get a thread up soon, just to close off the injector/power mystery I sent the injectors off to be cleaned and flow tested to see what we had.
Just had the report and it was good news and bad news, mostly bad news really lol.... first the good news they are not stock and all flowed over 425cc which explains car making 220+ hp with this kit, also good news is 2 of them are genuine Denso and flowed 468cc, now the bad news the other 2 are suspected cheap Chinese copies and one flowed 456cc other 426cc!....so they are going in the bin and I will get a new set of 440cc or similar.
Wise move replacing them all, you can install the new set with confidence and then tweak the map accordingly.
Looking forward to the build thread
Indeed not worth risking it when that far apart on flow, probably go with some new VXR Bosch 470cc and adaptors as cheapest quality option, although one my suppliers has some DeatschWerks 440cc plug and play so will see if I can get a deal on them as another option.
I know nothing of these things. But binning unknowns for a set of knowns is always going to be the right move. Later if not immediately.
Yes indeed I agree, not even going to bother getting them sent back to me and I will just buy new ones ready for when kit goes on.
Well done you're doing the right thing. What twit was running the car on injectors with 3 different flows ffs?
We don't know who fitted them probably first place that fitted the turbo kit but I don't know who that was, he has been lucky not to lean out on that low flow injector and probably running a little richer everywhere else to compensate.
Got some new Bosch 470cc ordered this morning just need to get some plug adaptors now.
Wait till you see the state of the air filter I took of the car, surprised it even ran if that's badly clogged!.....I guess being tucked behind rear light makes it hard to inspect but its well overdue an inspection and I doubt it will clean up now so probably replace that as well!
Quote from: thetyrant on October 16, 2019, 07:41We don't know who fitted them probably first place that fitted the turbo kit but I don't know who that was, he has been lucky not to lean out on that low flow injector and probably running a little richer everywhere else to compensate.
Got some new Bosch 470cc ordered this morning just need to get some plug adaptors now.
Wait till you see the state of the air filter I took of the car, surprised it even ran if that's badly clogged!.....I guess being tucked behind rear light makes it hard to inspect but its well overdue an inspection and I doubt it will clean up now so probably replace that as well!
It's a very very dirty place to put a filter as it turns out.
I remember the state Helen's filter was in on the SP240 when we got it. I'm surprised it ran at all,just like you.
Had the extra fun of having to remove that damn ducktail spoiler, to remove the light, to remove the filter. Nightmare.
Stupid modified cars :)
Quote from: shnazzle on October 16, 2019, 09:24It's a very very dirty place to put a filter as it turns out.
I remember the state Helen's filter was in on the SP240 when we got it. I'm surprised it ran at all,just like you.
Had the extra fun of having to remove that damn ducktail spoiler, to remove the light, to remove the filter. Nightmare.
Stupid modified cars :)
Yes it seems so and i will be working on improving this area of kit if i can.
So what's your rough total budget for this? I sometimes toy with the idea of a turbo, not sure how much of it I could DIY though.
Quote from: thetyrant on October 16, 2019, 10:20Yes it seems so and i will be working on improving this area of kit if i can.
The imo best is sticking to the OEM layout and stay within the max power limit this sets.
Quote from: james_ly on October 17, 2019, 11:04So what's your rough total budget for this? I sometimes toy with the idea of a turbo, not sure how much of it I could DIY though.
I want to be under £3k all in which "should" be easy enough as im well under that so far at just over 2k spent, depends on clutch i guess as im expecting to have to change that which will add a few hundred on depending what spec i go with, i dont know what my current clutch is or how old it is either but car as 103k miles on so if original and stock spec its not going to be happy with 200ftlbs or more! lol..... Matt tells me stock clutch in good health will just about take 200 but its right on limit so i expect to have to change it, i will be starting out on actuator pressure to get things settled in which should be around 180/180 im told and stock clutch can handle that if not abused, we will see.
Quote from: Petrus on October 17, 2019, 11:17The imo best is sticking to the OEM layout and stay within the max power limit this sets.
This kit puts the air filter just behind rear light in front of the stock air feed coming over from side vent so similar to oem and well away from hot manifold/turbo, im not sure why it gets so dirty here as the stock pipework which is in same place doesnt, maybe having the filter right there is sucking dirt up from wheel arch area i dont know and ive yet to investigate that, maybe some extra sheilds will be needed to help with this we will see.
Quote from: thetyrant on October 17, 2019, 12:28Quote from: Petrus on October 17, 2019, 11:17The imo best is sticking to the OEM layout and stay within the max power limit this sets.
This kit puts the air filter just behind rear light in front of the stock air feed coming over from side vent so similar to oem and well away from hot manifold/turbo, im not sure why it gets so dirty here as the stock pipework which is in same place doesnt, maybe having the filter right there is sucking dirt up from wheel arch area i dont know and ive yet to investigate that, maybe some extra sheilds will be needed to help with this we will see.
Maybe it is not the location but the aumented quántity of air filtered. Suck through 50% more air and that is 50% more dirt.
Also, the inner wheel plastic is not air tight and the slightest lowering of air pressure inside will see dust from the tyres sucked in. Enlarge the entry behind the battery, under the fusebox? That is after all the same size as the OEM air duct through the wheel well so probably quite restrictive for the larger quantity of air needing to pass through.
This was Helen's. Aside from the obvious big hole, it was just thick with muck. I blew through it and it made my cheeks poof up, that's how blocked it was IMG-20180330-WA0000_resize_67.jpg
Quote from: shnazzle on October 17, 2019, 19:40This was Helen's. Aside from the obvious big hole, it was just thick with muck. I blew through it and it made my cheeks poof up, that's how blocked it was IMG-20180330-WA0000_resize_67.jpg
On a side note it seems to have done a pretty good job of filtering the particles as the hole shows nothing deeper in the material.
Nasty looking filter! mine is worse I think will get a picture, going to get a new one ordered up before I fit the kit as not worth cleaning it I don't think, although its clean inside so been doing its job well just such a mess and I don't think I can bothered trying to get it clean as probably wont come perfect.
Quote from: Petrus on October 17, 2019, 20:13Quote from: shnazzle on October 17, 2019, 19:40This was Helen's. Aside from the obvious big hole, it was just thick with muck. I blew through it and it made my cheeks poof up, that's how blocked it was IMG-20180330-WA0000_resize_67.jpg
On a side note it seems to have done a pretty good job of filtering the particles as the hole shows nothing deeper in the material.
Unfortunately not so much so. The inside of the filter was gritty. Maybe bevause of the massive hole :)
Quote from: thetyrant on October 17, 2019, 20:14Nasty looking filter! mine is worse I think will get a picture, going to get a new one ordered up before I fit the kit as not worth cleaning it I don't think, although its clean inside so been doing its job well just such a mess and I don't think I can bothered trying to get it clean as probably wont come perfect.
Don´t clean.
You want a larger suface anyway.
When sucking in say 50% more than the n.a. engine, the fliter should ideally be 50% larger than the OEM one. Should be space for that.
These clogged filters made me think about the air flow. With the OEM duct taken out, she space in the rear quarter is a non-hermetic plenum chamber with the entry behind the battery and many leaks.
Dust from the tyres wíll enter.
The more air is sucked from the chamber the more will enter that way, so it is more of an issue for you f.i. guys but applies to anyone with a deduct. Had not thought of that.
@shnazzle; could be. The material itself seems to be clean further down.
Btw if all the particles are stopped at the outside, the filter material is not ideally suited is it?
Quote from: Petrus on October 17, 2019, 20:32Don´t clean.
You want a larger suface anyway.
When sucking in say 50% more than the n.a. engine, the fliter should ideally be 50% larger than the OEM one. Should be space for that.
These clogged filters made me think about the air flow. With the OEM duct taken out, she space in the rear quarter is a non-hermetic plenum chamber with the entry behind the battery and many leaks.
Dust from the tyres wíll enter.
The more air is sucked from the chamber the more will enter that way, so it is more of an issue for you f.i. guys but applies to anyone with a deduct. Had not thought of that.
@shnazzle; could be. The material itself seems to be clean further down.
Btw if all the particles are stopped at the outside, the filter material is not ideally suited is it?
Im not going to clean it :) what makes you think its too small ?
Here are some pics of the filthy animal haha
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/dirtyfilter1.jpg)
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/dirtyfilter2.jpg)
And inside which is pretty clean to be fair!
(http://carbotech-europe.com/images/MR2/dirtyfilterinside.jpg)
Quote from: Petrus on October 17, 2019, 20:32@shnazzle; could be. The material itself seems to be clean further down.
Btw if all the particles are stopped at the outside, the filter material is not ideally suited is it?
It was a cheap ebay filter from the looks of it. So no, the filter was only ideally suited to the bin.
Jesus that's dirty
It is isnt it! nasty indeed.
Probably replace with once of the Ramairs as below link which is just very slightly (10mm) bigger OD on fat end but otherwise same size, just need to check space available once i start fitting the kit, plenty of air flow for 300+ hp so should be enough :D
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRORAM-Universal-70mm-ID-Neck-Performance-High-Flow-Induction-Cone-Air-Filter/392060429468
Quote from: thetyrant on October 17, 2019, 21:15It is isnt it! nasty indeed.
Did a good job though.
As such the fliter itself is not the culprit if perhaps small.
One staged solution is a (preferrably sticky oiled) foam ´sock´ over a the finer filter. That would keep the courser particles from clogging up the outer layer.
As to the amoúnt of crap, that is another issue not tackled by whichever filter.
I think it os dust from the tyres being sucked into the ´plenum chamber´.
Quote from: thetyrant on October 17, 2019, 20:44Im not going to clean it :) what makes you think its too small ?
It appears (could be wrong OFCOURSE!) to have less filtering surface than the OEM cartridge and it should have 50% more at least.
Don´t base yourself on the filter manufacturers data: They are the sellers!
Best to base yourself on the OEM filter and add as much surface as you want to add hp. Reemeber that ány resistance = power left on the table.
If you would extend the intake duct with a shallow elbow, you could have a quite hefty tubular filter parallel to the inner sheet metal.
Quote from: Petrus on October 17, 2019, 21:39Quote from: thetyrant on October 17, 2019, 20:44Im not going to clean it :) what makes you think its too small ?
It appears (could be wrong OFCOURSE!) to have less filtering surface than the OEM cartridge and it should have 50% more at least.
Don´t base yourself on the filter manufacturers data: They are the sellers!
Best to base yourself on the OEM filter and add as much surface as you want to add hp. Reemeber that ány resistance = power left on the table.
If you would extend the intake duct with a shallow elbow, you could have a quite hefty tubular filter parallel to the inner sheet metal.
I appreciate your trying to help but im not sure how you come up with all this when you dont have the facts to hand ? you have no idea the size and area of the filter ive removed from this kit so you are just guessing critical information and coming up with incorrect assumptions.
I have both filters in front of me and a tape measure, the cone filter i have removed has more than double the open area of stock panel filter, the stock panel filter has deeper pleats so the filtration area % is very good for its open area size like most oem filter giving long service life, the cone filters filtration area is not as good % wise due to shallower pleats but its certainly capable of flowing a lot more air that stock filter (when both are new) and has proven itself good enough to keep dirt out and make 230hp on this kit.
Also for reference the stock panel filter is clearly capable of flowing a lot more air than a stock 1zz can consume, at least enough to make 190hp as same filter is used in the 2zz celica, maybe even the 215hp corolla compressor but im not 100% sure on that one.
Anyhows i will be replacing with at least same size filter and possibly looking as some shielding if it dirty's up quick, however i dont know how long this filter i removed has been on or what sort of environments its been used in so i may not have same problem, or at least not so much its worth the hassle of engineering a solution, if it lasts a year then im fine with just replacing it at that point :D
Now to get back to swapping over the engine harness :D
Quote from: thetyrant on October 18, 2019, 07:13Quote from: Petrus on October 17, 2019, 21:39Quote from: thetyrant on October 17, 2019, 20:44Im not going to clean it :) what makes you think its too small ?
It appears (could be wrong OFCOURSE!)
I appreciate your trying to help but im not sure how you come up with all this when you dont have the facts to hand ?
I stand corrected.