I'm definitely going to need a new set of tyres if I want to do trackdays as I don't fancy shredding the Continental Premium Contact 2's on mine - especially now that I've seen the prices (£380 for a set) as I'm sure they won't like being thumped around a track!
Onto trackday tyres, I thought about replacing my AD08R's, but the first pricing I got from a local company was £485 for a set of Yoko AD08Rs (inc fitting).
Blackcircles are quoting AD08R's at £410, so pretty sure I can get the local guys down to that...
Any other recommendations?
I was considering the Yoko V701's (better in the wet, econmomy and price), but they don't seem to do FL rear's... which is a shame as I think they're the right sort of in-between trackday and road tyre that I'm after.
@Carolyn swears by something else - I thought it was "NS2's", but the closest I can find are the Nakang NS20's?
I can't seem to find the Toyo equivalents to AD08R's - do they do still do those in FL sizes?
It's Nankang ns2r.
I've got them on face-lift wheels.
Brilliant in the dry and OK in the wet.
I've gone for slightly larger than the stock set up though.
Quote from: BahnStormer on September 30, 2019, 14:43I'm definitely going to need a new set of tyres if I want to do trackdays as I don't fancy shredding the Continental Premium Contact 2's on mine - especially now that I've seen the prices (£380 for a set) as I'm sure they won't like being thumped around a track!
Onto trackday tyres, I thought about replacing my AD08R's, but the first pricing I got from a local company was £485 for a set of Yoko AD08Rs (inc fitting).
Blackcircles are quoting AD08R's at £410, so pretty sure I can get the local guys down to that...
Any other recommendations?
I was considering the Yoko V701's (better in the wet, econmomy and price), but they don't seem to do FL rear's... which is a shame as I think they're the right sort of in-between trackday and road tyre that I'm after.
@Carolyn swears by something else - I thought it was "NS2's", but the closest I can find are the Nakang NS20's?
I can't seem to find the Toyo equivalents to AD08R's - do they do still do those in FL sizes?
You got it. Nankang NS20. Not NS2R, which are much more 'racey' and much less 'all-weather'. Helen (herecomesthewife) has them too. You do have to settle for 195 at the front though. I run 215 rear, 195 front.
Quote from: Carolyn on September 30, 2019, 14:48Quote from: BahnStormer on September 30, 2019, 14:43I'm definitely going to need a new set of tyres if I want to do trackdays as I don't fancy shredding the Continental Premium Contact 2's on mine - especially now that I've seen the prices (£380 for a set) as I'm sure they won't like being thumped around a track!
Onto trackday tyres, I thought about replacing my AD08R's, but the first pricing I got from a local company was £485 for a set of Yoko AD08Rs (inc fitting).
Blackcircles are quoting AD08R's at £410, so pretty sure I can get the local guys down to that...
Any other recommendations?
I was considering the Yoko V701's (better in the wet, econmomy and price), but they don't seem to do FL rear's... which is a shame as I think they're the right sort of in-between trackday and road tyre that I'm after.
@Carolyn swears by something else - I thought it was "NS2's", but the closest I can find are the Nakang NS20's?
I can't seem to find the Toyo equivalents to AD08R's - do they do still do those in FL sizes?
You got it. Nankang NS20. Not NS2R, which are much more 'racey' and much less 'all-weather'. Helen (herecomesthewife) has them too. You do have to settle for 195 at the front though. I run 215 rear, 195 front.
My bad, not ns2r's then. They are questionable if best in the wet.
You'll be fine with road tyres on track IMO - obviously you'll have less grip but that's no bad thing with a standard 1zz. The car is light enough that you won't be trashing them that fast.
Other options are the Nankang NS2Rs, which are equivalent to AD08R (which are phasing out, AD08RS the new one!).
Thanks for the quick feedback guys - saves me going nuts looking for 185 wide NS20's, etc....
Thanks for the feedback James - I might give these Conti's a last hoorah with a trackday, but there's a lot of grip left on them yet :)
Fleva V701's keep grabbing my eye due to the price + wet rating... and they look more viable as a long-term road + trackday tyre... which the ~£400 set of Continentals are not - more on replacement price than actual viability in terms of grip....
215/45R16 (4968814944186)
185/55R15 (4968814944117)
I just can't seem to find anybody that stocks the rears...
If you want to use your car in the clod and wet, I would recommend a proper all-weather tyre. That's what the NS20's are.
I find them, still, quite sporty and sticky. The downside is I go through a set of rears annually. But, the, I'm a bit of a B road hooligan,
Specific sizes: Rear 215 45 16 Front 195 50 15 Around £50 per corner.
I'd seen the AD08RS... the price is just as eye-watering as before (£410+ fitting from https://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk).
I'll probably end up with something like those, but I'm just trying to explore a few other options first. Keen to know if people have found the Fleva V701's somewhere in the right sizes (i.e. 215/45/R16)...
Quote from: Carolyn on September 30, 2019, 15:02If you want to use your car in the [cold] and wet...
I have a set of the Conti TS860S for proper winter as AD08R's below 10C are the wrong kind of fun on ANY surface... as far as Winter tyres go - I'm comfortable that those are one of the best combo winter / wet / all season performers: it's used by evo and John Benson's tyretest (Youtube channel) as the benchmark for a good quality winter tyre that still holds its own against the best all-season tyres when there isn't snow and ice on the ground.
I'm just looking for something slightly more road friendly and pocket friendly than the AD08R's and hunting around for options - not in any rush - just wanting to start a chat and see what this summer's favourites are, so I'm ready for next season... I'll stick with the Conti Premium Contact2's until the winter wheels go on in a month or so...
What about Nankangs in
195/55 R15
205/55 R15
The tire diameter is less than 24 inch in the rear so I think it wont rub with TTE springs? Reason Im asking is because I have 5.5 kg forged wheels that are 15".
I was happy with falkens that come in the correct sizes.
Interesting that this has turned into a PFL thread :))
I'm looking at replacing my T1-Rs with Rainsport 3s as they appear to come in Facelift sizes.
I think the best quote I found was around £300 fully fitted, so somewhere in between Carolyn's Nankangs and the AD08RS's. Probably not much cop on track, although they aren't apparently the worst in the dry.
I'm always interested to read that people find the AD08R to be dangerous in the winter.
I know
@BahnStormer uses his to commute so is up early on cold wet roads but I've never really had an issue unless it was raining cats and dogs.
Obviously we both live down south I wouldn't recommend them year round to those in more northern areas.
Federal 595RSR get my vote as they are great wet and dry for road and track, also cheap considering the amount of grip they have!, wet weather are very good when new until about half worn the wet weather performance drops off, still better than AD08 though in wet i found but not tried the AD08R which is meant to be better in wet despite same tread pattern.
Mine's a PFL but the new Toyo Proxes TR1's are really amazing wet/dry. There's also loads of good reviews including for track use and they're fairly priced. Think I got mine online for £170 or something so not bad. Might be ideal if you plan to drive the car back from the track as well.
I've tried quite a few but this is my new favourite tyre and I hated the previous crappy T1R's with a passion lol.
Quote from: Ozzy on October 1, 2019, 11:32Mine's a PFL but the new Toyo Proxes TR1's are really amazing wet/dry. There's also loads of good reviews including for track use and they're fairly priced. Think I got mine online for £170 or something so not bad. Might be ideal if you plan to drive the car back from the track as well.
I've tried quite a few but this is my new favourite tyre and I hated the previous crappy T1R's with a passion lol.
Thats interesting to know as i also despised the old Toyo T1-R it was a terrible mushy tyre when i had them years ago, previous to fitting them i had the T1-S which was brillant tyre before they screwed it up with the R!. Might try some of the TR1's next :D
I'm with
@1979scotte Never found the ad08r to be any bother in the wet.
As regards a tyres performance in the wet, the only rating is in respect of braking performance. RAC website (https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/tyres/what-do-your-tyre-labels-mean/) says this:
Tyre labelling for wet grip ranges from A to G. A black arrow and white letter points to the rating for that tyre. The rating depicts stopping distances in rainy weather.
The difference between each letter is around 2.5 metres when braking from 50mph – that's well over half a car-length. An 'A' rated tyre will come to a stop 18 metres before an 'F' rated tyre in the wet.
AD08R is a 'B' rating, so as guys are alluding to, is comparatively quite good.
Quote from: thetyrant on October 1, 2019, 12:10Quote from: Ozzy on October 1, 2019, 11:32Mine's a PFL but the new Toyo Proxes TR1's are really amazing wet/dry. There's also loads of good reviews including for track use and they're fairly priced. Think I got mine online for £170 or something so not bad. Might be ideal if you plan to drive the car back from the track as well.
I've tried quite a few but this is my new favourite tyre and I hated the previous crappy T1R's with a passion lol.
Thats interesting to know as i also despised the old Toyo T1-R it was a terrible mushy tyre when i had them years ago, previous to fitting them i had the T1-S which was brillant tyre before they screwed it up with the R!. Might try some of the TR1's next :D
agreed - T1S's were awesome... then they put that extra stripe on the shoulder and made them all squidgy....
Quote from: ManInDandism on October 1, 2019, 13:25As regards a tyres performance in the wet, the only rating is in respect of braking performance. RAC website (https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/tyres/what-do-your-tyre-labels-mean/) says this:
Tyre labelling for wet grip ranges from A to G. A black arrow and white letter points to the rating for that tyre. The rating depicts stopping distances in rainy weather.
The difference between each letter is around 2.5 metres when braking from 50mph – that's well over half a car-length. An 'A' rated tyre will come to a stop 18 metres before an 'F' rated tyre in the wet.
AD08R is a 'B' rating, so as guys are alluding to, is comparatively quite good.
Alluding. Like that word.
Hi, I'm a Newbie who has recently bought a set of FL alloys. I got some advice after my post on running 205/40 r17 all round, which the car came with. So I need to buy tyres over the winter. I am finding this tricky- so many opinions!
My use is perhaps 1500 mostly dry B road miles per year. I found the Toyo TR1's on demon tweeks. Available sizes seem to be front 195/55 15 85v and rear 225/45 16 93w xl. Opinions welcome please on this choice and sizes.
Should I be concerned with the difference in load rating?
Michelin PS3 are pretty much the best dry/wet tyre in FL sizes. Falken do some great tyres but not sure in 15/16"
Falken do (or at least did when I had mine) in the correct sizes. 15 16.
My concern isn't so much braking as I find my car brakes well in all weathers, even with T1Rs, it's the propensity to switch ends in the wet and twitch a little too much that scares the life out of me.
I clearly don't have much talent, so I need some help.
Best tyres I've ever had were the OEM spec Bridgestone. Shame they no longer make them,
Quote from: The Other Stu on October 1, 2019, 22:35it's the propensity to switch ends in the wet and twitch a little too much that scares the life out of me.
Lack of talent or otherwise. A 2 should not be doing what you are alluding to.
this suggests A, a tyre issue, B, a geo issue, C driving like a Tw@.
I'm ruling C out as you are a great chap.
I'm on stock suspension, I've been on worn Bridgestones, a set of Falkens and now the so called "notoriously death trap in the wet AD08Rs?" and not once has it wanted to swap ends.
When that happens what are the circumstances?
Yup, particularly when it swapped ends, I was doing under 50 on a "damp" (honestly, that's what it was - not heavy rain) dual carriageway, having just come off a roundabout. I've noticed it twitch a lot too. Even when they're warm. I now have one of those tyre monitors and they tell you not only the pressure, but the temperature.
Had the geo checked last year. Starting to wonder if either something has come loose or these tyres are just underperforming.
Quote from: The Other Stu on October 2, 2019, 10:06Yup, particularly when it swapped ends, I was doing under 50 on a "damp" (honestly, that's what it was - not heavy rain) dual carriageway, having just come off a roundabout. I've noticed it twitch a lot too. Even when they're warm. I now have one of those tyre monitors and they tell you not only the pressure, but the temperature.
Had the geo checked last year. Starting to wonder if either something has come loose or these tyres are just underperforming.
Something is definitely out of order in the suspension department. If you want to bring it here, we can put her up and have a proper poke about, plus we can check the alignment. Our alignment tool is no laser, but it will show if something is massively out.
I would replace the T1R's to rule that out as they are the worst tyre ive ever used, and there has been a lot over the years/cars!, closely followed by the old Goodyear F1 GSD3 which like the T1R having a much superior predecessor in the T1S as the F1's previous GSD2 incarnation was a decent tyre, unlike the GSD3 which was like driving on marbles until about half worn, much like the T1R which i started to get one with when about only 3mm of tread left but only in dry as wet weather grip was poor then, glad to get them removed!
Worth getting suspenion checked over as well for function and geo as well to be safe.
Not sure I am familiar with all the technical terms.
Tw@. is presumably short for "two stop" as in braking!!!
Quote from: The Other Stu on October 1, 2019, 22:35My concern isn't so much braking as I find my car brakes well in all weathers, even with T1Rs, it's the propensity to switch ends in the wet and twitch a little too much that scares the life out of me.
I clearly don't have much talent, so I need some help.
Best tyres I've ever had were the OEM spec Bridgestone. Shame they no longer make them,
Bloody awful the T1Rs, mine have improved as I've worn them down but I'd take the Bridgestones anyday.
I'll add my tuppence to the discussion!
I loved my Bridgestones and agree that I wish they still did them! I'm sure there are newer better tyres out there, but used them in all weathers and even in snow, when well worn!
On Carolyns recommendation, I now have NS20s on and while I havent driven in anger they do grip well and I'm sure they will be just as good as the Bridgestones. They do have a softer sidewall, so need a couple of extra PSI in to compensate.
I can also verify now, that they are good in the wet, and with standing water, as I had to drive in torrential rain on Saturday. They never put a foot wrong, unless you were really stupid and floored it out of a junction to test them - yes they did loose grip, but was only for a moment and perfectly controllable.
Happy with them and for the price - cant argue with them. I got them in 195/50/15 and 225/45/16 sizes.
Hi All,
Regarding the car swapping ends, I honestly think that has more to do with the LSD as anything else. My MR2 is the only car I've ever owned that has one. Even my 130i manual and E36 328i manual didn't have one; just electronic traction control. My 328i wouldn't step out at all, even if provoked, even in the wet with the traction turned off. Seriously, you'd have to drive it like you stole it before it would get sideways. The 130i, with a shorter wheelbase and even more power (265 hp), would step out a little, but only if provoked.
My 2 is the least powerful car I've owned in many a year, but the most back endy by far, especially pulling out enthusiastically in first gear these last few colder wet mornings. What's the difference? Many would blame the mid mounted engine in 2. But the 130i and 328i had 50/50 weight distributions, or thereabouts, and the 2's 58/42 split isn't that much different to that in the big scheme of things.
I think that feeling the 2 gives that it's always threatening to swap ends in the wet if pushed, comes from the LSD. LSDs are known to accentuate oversteer, as they enable continued forward progress when grip limits on one wheel have been reached. I'm on AD08Rs at mo, but my "winter" tyres (actually all season Vredesteins), oversteer just the same in cold, wet conditions.
I do drive in a 'spirited' manner on our local B roads. I never feel that my car wants to swap ends. Unless the tyres are close to worn out. Got to be on the right rubber though.
Personally I do think 225 is too wide for the rear of this car btw.
The key word for me here is "damp"
Give me full fat, solid, in yer face wet, over "damp" any day.
For damp, read "greasy"
Even so, I'm on rears, that are long past their best. But never feel it want's to swap ends.
Quote from: Carolyn on October 4, 2019, 20:26I do drive in a 'spirited' manner on our local B roads. I never feel that my car wants to swap ends. Unless the tyres are close to worn out. Got to be on the right rubber though.
Personally I do think 225 is too wide for the rear of this car btw.
Agreed
Please listen.
IF YOUR 2 FEELS LIKE IT'S TRYING TO SWAP ENDS EITHER SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH IT OR YOU ARE NOT DRIVING CORRECTLY FOR THE MID ENGINE LAYOUT.
Weight distribution is not the same has having the weight in the centre of the wheel base.
I drive in all weather's.
I've driven on pfl and FL wheels.
All my 2s have had a minium of 80bhp over stock.
All my 2s are maintained to a high standard with excellent quality tyres and new suspension.
The only times I have had issues is when I've had poor tyres. Wrong pressure. Broken subframe. Suspension out of alignment. Run out of talent.
I'm currently driving on 205 rear ado8r with 257 ftlbs torque at the wheels more than double the 1zz makes and I'm not dead yet.
Coming at this from a different perspective, is it not all about common sense?
Know your car and it's set up, tyres etc.
Understand your own abilities.
Take the weather (inc temp) into consideration.
Enjoy!!
Quote from: Johnny5 on October 4, 2019, 20:15Hi All,
Regarding the car swapping ends, I honestly think that has more to do with the LSD as anything else. My MR2 is the only car I've ever owned that has one. Even my 130i manual and E36 328i manual didn't have one; just electronic traction control. My 328i wouldn't step out at all, even if provoked, even in the wet with the traction turned off. Seriously, you'd have to drive it like you stole it before it would get sideways. The 130i, with a shorter wheelbase and even more power (265 hp), would step out a little, but only if provoked.
My 2 is the least powerful car I've owned in many a year, but the most back endy by far, especially pulling out enthusiastically in first gear these last few colder wet mornings. What's the difference? Many would blame the mid mounted engine in 2. But the 130i and 328i had 50/50 weight distributions, or thereabouts, and the 2's 58/42 split isn't that much different to that in the big scheme of things.
I think that feeling the 2 gives that it's always threatening to swap ends in the wet if pushed, comes from the LSD. LSDs are known to accentuate oversteer, as they enable continued forward progress when grip limits on one wheel have been reached. I'm on AD08Rs at mo, but my "winter" tyres (actually all season Vredesteins), oversteer just the same in cold, wet conditions.
The weight distribution you refer to and engine location is a ´bit´ more complicated that just that.
The mid engine concept greatests impacts are on the distance of the mass to the centre of gravity while at the seme time having more weight on the rear.
The concept is léss not more prone to swapping ends because of the increased traction at the rear.
Because of the mass being closer to the cog, the momentum is smaller, meaning the car changes direction quicker. This also means that when oversteering, this is livelier.
So while the tencency to oversteer is way is less, it needs quicker driver response.
On the Spyder Toyota did a réally god job in retaining the benefits and making the inherent driver demands less by making the wheelbase as long as possible and set the steering geometry up for initial understeer.
It is about as driver friendly as a lightweight mid engine car gets.
Yes, there are some ´shortcomings´ like the electric power steering and the seats* but that is nit picking and unavoidable user friendlyness for a runabout car.
Again, the MR2 Spyder/Roadster is a véry driver friendly mid engined car.
* the power steering means that the feedback about what the car is doing is less direct so you are just that bit slower on the ball and response also are easily overreacting.
The limited side support of the seats means that it is more challenging to only steer and not partly ´hold on´ to the steering wheel resulting in the driver giving unwanted steering imput which is compounded by the power steering.
Take note that this is nit picking and nót an issue untill you really start pushing the limits of the car.
Quote from: H1GRM on October 5, 2019, 08:59Coming at this from a different perspective, is it not all about common sense?
Know your car and it's set up, tyres etc.
Understand your own abilities.
Take the weather (inc temp) into consideration.
Enjoy!!
+ a BIG one!
Our MR2 is a very driver friendly car but if you give it enough stick for the rear to become unstuck you need respond timely and measured; more so than most front engined cars, less so than most mid engined cars.
I like it a lot because it is a proper handling mid engined car which is driver friendly for public road use. It is not as razor sharp handling/steering as an Elise for good reason as you can cut yourself very easily too with razor sharp.
Living in the mountains of souther spain I have 300 sunny days / year but it does rain and there are four months of near/sub zero mornings. The solution is not the car or tyres. It´s me.
Quote from: Petrus on October 5, 2019, 11:59Quote from: H1GRM on October 5, 2019, 08:59Coming at this from a different perspective, is it not all about common sense?
Know your car and it's set up, tyres etc.
Understand your own abilities.
Take the weather (inc temp) into consideration.
Enjoy!!
+ a BIG one!
Our MR2 is a very driver friendly car but if you give it enough stick for the rear to become unstuck you need respond timely and measured; more so than most front engined cars, less so than most mid engined cars.
I like it a lot because it is a proper handling mid engined car which is driver friendly for public road use. It is not as razor sharp handling/steering as an Elise for good reason as you can cut yourself very easily too with razor sharp.
Living in the mountains of souther spain I have 300 sunny days / year but it does rain and there are four months of near/sub zero mornings. The solution is not the car or tyres. It´s me.
I don't think I've ever agreed with one of your comments more than the last 2.
Quote from: Petrus on October 5, 2019, 11:59Quote from: H1GRM on October 5, 2019, 08:59Coming at this from a different perspective, is it not all about common sense?
Know your car and it's set up, tyres etc.
Understand your own abilities.
Take the weather (inc temp) into consideration.
Enjoy!!
+ a BIG one!
Our MR2 is a very driver friendly car but if you give it enough stick for the rear to become unstuck you need respond timely and measured; more so than most front engined cars, less so than most mid engined cars.
I like it a lot because it is a proper handling mid engined car which is driver friendly for public road use. It is not as razor sharp handling/steering as an Elise for good reason as you can cut yourself very easily too with razor sharp.
Living in the mountains of souther spain I have 300 sunny days / year but it does rain and there are four months of near/sub zero mornings. The solution is not the car or tyres. It´s me.
Yep totally agree with this.
Most fun and easiest to slide and control was my "Seven" because you are nearly seated over the rear axle and you feel everything. Apply less power and the slide starts to correct apply more power and it just steps out a little more. So progressive but even less practical than a "2".
Bringing this back to tyres I seem to remember I had Yoko's on the 7.
Quote from: Johnny5 on October 4, 2019, 20:15Hi All,
Regarding the car swapping ends, I honestly think that has more to do with the LSD as anything else. My MR2 is the only car I've ever owned that has one. Even my 130i manual and E36 328i manual didn't have one; just electronic traction control. My 328i wouldn't step out at all, even if provoked, even in the wet with the traction turned off. Seriously, you'd have to drive it like you stole it before it would get sideways. The 130i, with a shorter wheelbase and even more power (265 hp), would step out a little, but only if provoked.
My 2 is the least powerful car I've owned in many a year, but the most back endy by far, especially pulling out enthusiastically in first gear these last few colder wet mornings. What's the difference? Many would blame the mid mounted engine in 2. But the 130i and 328i had 50/50 weight distributions, or thereabouts, and the 2's 58/42 split isn't that much different to that in the big scheme of things.
I think that feeling the 2 gives that it's always threatening to swap ends in the wet if pushed, comes from the LSD. LSDs are known to accentuate oversteer, as they enable continued forward progress when grip limits on one wheel have been reached. I'm on AD08Rs at mo, but my "winter" tyres (actually all season Vredesteins), oversteer just the same in cold, wet conditions.
My issue with the above is, why aren't all the other LSD cars reporting the same thing?
Whatever it is, I think the LSD is a red herring.
As explained to me my ChrisGB, who I think we can all agree is a "rather seasoned driver" , the Torsen LSD can give the impression of an unstable back end while it does what it does on a straight line. You'd normally never feel this. But in an mr2, you feel all.
The worst thing to do is to try and correct it. Loosen grip on the steering wheel and let the LSD do its thing.
And yes, 225 is too wide for damp/wet conditions. And Yokohama AD08Rs are not suitable for UK weather after September. And -2deg camber isn't great for all conditions. Yet I have all of those, because in the warm/dry... Oh my.. :)
But after September time. It's slow and steady for me.
As per Petrus' comment; drive to your setup and conditions. You're on your own, there are no electronic aids.
Also; weight distribution is a funny thing. Weight distribution at standstill is very different to under various loads. Yes at standstill the weight is quite well-distributed. But if I throw the mr2 around a corner, you better believe that rear end has some momentum to it by way of the fact that steering is in the front :)
Quote from: shnazzle on October 5, 2019, 14:19Also; weight distribution is a funny thing. Weight distribution at standstill is very different to under various loads. Yes at standstill the weight is quite well-distributed. But if I throw the mr2 around a corner, you better believe that rear end has some momentum to it by way of the fact that steering is in the front :)
The rear is relatively heavier than the front but still not heavy and the relative extra weight adds móre grip. Because the car is light, thus the rear light, the rubber has the max grip it can offer; no load sensitivity in play.
Mine is a PFL on OEM size wubbah, so 205 rear and imo is spot on.
The rear being light also means that any sideways movement is easy to correct. You just need to be on the ball and NÓT overcorrect. The long wet!! drift video here on the forum is a purrrrr-fect example.
Btw, the weight distribution on the Lotus Elise is 38/62.
Quote from: GavS on October 1, 2019, 20:52Hi, I'm a Newbie who has recently bought a set of FL alloys. I got some advice after my post on running 205/40 r17 all round, which the car came with. So I need to buy tyres over the winter. I am finding this tricky- so many opinions!
My use is perhaps 1500 mostly dry B road miles per year. I found the Toyo TR1's on demon tweeks. Available sizes seem to be front 195/55 15 85v and rear 225/45 16 93w xl. Opinions welcome please on this choice and sizes.
Should I be concerned with the difference in load rating?
I wouldn't get too excited about load rating, but you're going wider on all your tyres.... more grip, but heavier and less fun: OEM should be 185/55R15 and 215/45R16 - probably cheaper and keep the car fun and lively :)
Quote from: 1979scotte on October 1, 2019, 10:13I'm always interested to read that people find the AD08R to be dangerous in the winter.
I know @BahnStormer uses his to commute so is up early on cold wet roads but I've never really had an issue unless it was raining cats and dogs.
Obviously we both live down south I wouldn't recommend them year round to those in more northern areas.
Yes - my use-case is different from most MR2 owners - I was doing high mileage B road commuting, incl mostly ungritted country lanes often <6am and >9pm... so I'd often be scraping ice off my windows before each leg of my commute.
AD08R's are fine in summer rain - it's the cold that made me nervous: "Not so much dangerous in the wet"... as "glassy in the cold".... it is a complete novelty to 1ZZ owners to be able to snake the back of the car out with even a modest prod of the accelerator out of every junction, but the novelty wears off pretty fast it's a fairly uncontrolled slide and probably shredding some fairly expensive (brittle) tyres that are more at home in the warm... essentially if you're scraping your windscreen before you drive, you're driving VERY carefully on AD08R's.
My advice: £100-£250 for a set of spare OEM rims and get a set of tyres for each use-case :)
To be clear - I'm not afraid of the cold / wet in my MR2 - I just prefer to give my care the right contact for the surface: I've done plenty of those commutes on solid-packed ice and snow, while zig-zagging around stupid summer tyre shod Range Rovers...
You could always remove the rear antisway bar in winter to make it softer.
Quote from: BahnStormer on October 6, 2019, 19:57it is a complete novelty to 1ZZ owners to be able to snake the back of the car out with even a modest prod of the accelerator out of every junction, but the novelty wears off pretty fast
Not for me :D
Quote from: james_ly on October 7, 2019, 10:06Quote from: BahnStormer on October 6, 2019, 19:57it is a complete novelty to 1ZZ owners to be able to snake the back of the car out with even a modest prod of the accelerator out of every junction, but the novelty wears off pretty fast
Not for me :D
I'm not talking about where the "danger" is that you'll get thrown off a run-wot-u-brung trackday at Silverstone for drifting every corner (again).... I'm talking about glassy slides into taffic where you're just hoping the gravel on the shoulder will help you catch the slide, 'cos no amount of skill will help if your tyres are behaving like they're on pure ice... same junctions, even heavier acceleration and the Conti winter tyres behave perfectly!
Quote from: The Other Stu on October 2, 2019, 10:06Yup, particularly when it swapped ends, I was doing under 50 on a "damp" (honestly, that's what it was - not heavy rain) dual carriageway, having just come off a roundabout. I've noticed it twitch a lot too. Even when they're warm. I now have one of those tyre monitors and they tell you not only the pressure, but the temperature.
Had the geo checked last year. Starting to wonder if either something has come loose or these tyres are just underperforming.
Just an observation - but most of those tyre monitors add asymmetric, unsprung weight, so I've always been really wary of them... I assume you have the "behind the valve" variety and the wheels were re-balanced afterwards?
choices need to be made soon....
Yoko Fleva 701's now seem to be around in FL OEM sizes, for £320, fitted. More road focussed.
Nankang NS2R's not available in 215/45/16's + 185/55R15.... not that I can find anyway....
Nankang NS2's for £155 + fitting... but then only 205mm rears.... lovely and cheap, much more road-focussed.
Then the spanner in the works: Yoko AD08RS's are on special £360 incl fitting from a decent local garage!
The NS20's look like phenomenal value, but road focused and I'm after something for summer: I already have 2 full sets of wheels with all other bases covered with two good sets of Continentals: general purpose Premium Contact 2's and TS860S winters...
Avon ZV7s come in the proper FL sizes for around £250 fitted.
I have recently fitted Toyo TR1 all round on my facelift , 225/45/16 and 195/55/15, not done to many miles on them yet but happy with them, spirited road use when I can, no trackdays (yet)
Rob
Quote from: Bossworld on February 7, 2020, 21:05Avon ZV7s come in the proper FL sizes for around £250 fitted.
Thanks, but those look very road-focused and panned in reviews: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/104042/avon-zv7-review
Quote from: Zxrob on February 7, 2020, 21:23I have recently fitted Toyo TR1 all round on my facelift , 225/45/16 and 195/55/15, not done to many miles on them yet but happy with them, spirited road use when I can, no trackdays (yet)
Rob
I saw these - got excited and then realised the only option is to go for non-standard tyre sizes... and I don't want tonnes of extra rubber, I just want progressive, predictable grip....
AD08RS's are still winning it for me in terms of a road legal, track capable summer tyre...
Quote from: BahnStormer on February 8, 2020, 13:33Quote from: Bossworld on February 7, 2020, 21:05Avon ZV7s come in the proper FL sizes for around £250 fitted.
Thanks, but those look very road-focused and panned in reviews: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/104042/avon-zv7-review
Quote from: Zxrob on February 7, 2020, 21:23I have recently fitted Toyo TR1 all round on my facelift , 225/45/16 and 195/55/15, not done to many miles on them yet but happy with them, spirited road use when I can, no trackdays (yet)
Rob
I saw these - got excited and then realised the only option is to go for non-standard tyre sizes... and I don't want tonnes of extra rubber, I just want progressive, predictable grip....
AD08RS's are still winning it for me in terms of a road legal, track capable summer tyre...
I've absolutely no issues with them on my car, nor the ZZ5s on my Cooper S with a lot more power than the MR2. 'Panned' is one interpretation of that review, but I take your point you don't want road tyres.
Still if nothing else, shows there's a dwindling supply of the stock sizes from various manufacturers.
Quote from: Bossworld on February 8, 2020, 15:30I've absolutely no issues with them on my car, nor the ZZ5s on my Cooper S with a lot more power than the MR2. 'Panned' is one interpretation of that review, but I take your point you don't want road tyres.
The review wasn't a great one - either the quality of the journalism or the appraisal of the tyre: on everything except cabin noise, they came 8th/9th/10th (out of ten?)... and the comment was that every else had moved they game on a lot in the last few years and these were feeling dated... and the review is from 2018.
I try to avoid assuming that if a manufacturer has one good/bad set of tyres, the rest of their range will automatically follow... so I try to find reviews that suit my use-case as closely as possible.
So on that note, I should treat the only online review of the ZV7's with a pinch of salt as they reference "Texas heat" and presumably NOT with a lightweight roadster... so I'm sure they're a decent road tyre for the MR2 in Blighty and certainly seem decent value.
Overall it's a pretty lightweight summary of a review and I can't find the full test that it references anywhere. I've found a few other high-level summaries, where the Zv7's come out fairly well, but I can't date those or verify the uses for those test either, so if other people have these on MR2's, it would be good to know if they're a good alternative road tyre as Nankang NS20's and Premium Contact 2's are the more frequently used... so this would be a good mid-point / alternative any of our other regular brands stop producing (or if the Conti PC2's get any more expensive!)
Quote from: Bossworld on February 8, 2020, 15:30Still if nothing else, shows there's a dwindling supply of the stock sizes from various manufacturers.
100% agree on this - and most of those that are left are pricing themselves for low-volume niche buyers - all the the high-end brands are now over £300 for a set in FL sizes, sometimes over £400 :|
edit: added a few reviews.... AutoBild 2017 and 2018 tests: note that none of these are in MR2 sizes (320d and in one case 225 width tyres), so not ideal. Although the ZV7's consistently get towards the lower end of the grouping (16th/17th out of 20). The only other direct comparison with tyres for our cars - V701's get panned (in a much larger size) and slightly above the ZV7's in the smaller size.... I'm not going to count the "similar" reviews, such as the Conti SportContact6 as a proper reflection of where the SportContact2's might place - I know they change the rubber compound and tread patterns as they move through the different ranges, so it's no real indication of what is good for our cars.
Just fitted a set of Uniroyal Rainsport 5's to my FL wheels. 195/50/15 front 205/45/16 rear. They also come in in 215 and 225 for the rear.
Not tested them properly yet but they seemed grippy on the few miles I tested them even with the mould release agent still not burned off yet. I must say though they did dumb down the sharpness of the car but that's to be expected given they replaced Nankang AR1's which are super stiff.
Quote from: JB21 on February 10, 2020, 08:17Just fitted a set of Uniroyal Rainsport 5's to my FL wheels. 195/50/15 front 205/45/16 rear. They also come in in 215 and 225 for the rear.
Not tested them properly yet but they seemed grippy on the few miles I tested them even with the mould release agent still not burned off yet. I must say though they did dumb down the sharpness of the car but that's to be expected given they replaced Nankang AR1's which are super stiff.
205 rears should keep you honest on the accelerator ;) I thought about those sizes for trackday tyres as it'll allow more throttle adjustability on the rear without increasing the power... but I'm also wanting them for road use, so sticking to OEM to keep insurance less complicated.
Quote from: BahnStormer on February 10, 2020, 09:23Quote from: JB21 on February 10, 2020, 08:17Just fitted a set of Uniroyal Rainsport 5's to my FL wheels. 195/50/15 front 205/45/16 rear. They also come in in 215 and 225 for the rear.
Not tested them properly yet but they seemed grippy on the few miles I tested them even with the mould release agent still not burned off yet. I must say though they did dumb down the sharpness of the car but that's to be expected given they replaced Nankang AR1's which are super stiff.
205 rears should keep you honest on the accelerator ;) I thought about those sizes for trackday tyres as it'll allow more throttle adjustability on the rear without increasing the power... but I'm also wanting them for road use, so sticking to OEM to keep insurance less complicated.
They'll only be used for track commuting and wet track days so should do a job. MK3 race cars run this stagger so shouldn't be to bad.
Quote from: BahnStormer on February 10, 2020, 08:00edit: added a few reviews.... AutoBild 2017 and 2018 tests: note that none of these are in MR2 sizes (320d and in one case 225 width tyres), so not ideal. Although the ZV7's consistently get towards the lower end of the grouping (16th/17th out of 20). The only other direct comparison with tyres for our cars - V701's get panned (in a much larger size) and slightly above the ZV7's in the smaller size.... I'm not going to count the "similar" reviews, such as the Conti SportContact6 as a proper reflection of where the SportContact2's might place - I know they change the rubber compound and tread patterns as they move through the different ranges, so it's no real indication of what is good for our cars.
At the end of the day, tyres are a massively subjective consumer good, which is why it's great we have these discussions.
What I value more, and I think you made this point further up, is other people's reviews from real-world usage. To take an example, Peugeot used to fit the Pirelli P6000 (which you'd think from a premium manufacturer would be great) and they were known to the 306 community as 'ditch finders'. Equally, Toyo seem to be a go-to tyre for both the 306 and MR2 due to low cost, despite repeated comments about soft sidewalls and having to bump up the PSI.
By the same token, I wouldn't have considered Nankang if it hadn't been for Carolyn singing their praises, but I value her opinion and may try them if I wear out the Avons while the car is still mine.
Appreciate you won't be buying them but before I got removed from the UK FaceBook group, there were a few people on there running with the Avons, though to your other point, they may not be tracking their cars. I went with them following a positive experience from the ZZ5 (18" wheels on the Mini hence the change in product line as they don't do the ZV7 in that size). Maybe apples and oranges but equally, there there does seem to be a marked difference between Nankang's track-orientated tyres and the day-to-day ones.
So in summary, who knows lol
My Mk3 came with the ZV7's and I had already put ZZ5's on my daily driver - all my cars are rwd.
My priorities are Wet Grip, Noise Level and Price.
So far I am quite happy with the Avons and can only compare them to the Yokohamas on my Mk1 for what that's worth.
Fortunately, I'm not having to look for a tyre that satisfies anything other than driving on public roads and I doubt if the tyre exists that can meet all the driving conditions that people want e.g. Road/Track/Sprint/What day of the week is it?/Non OEM wheels and suspension setups/et al- it's all too subjective. :)
Quote from: BahnStormer on February 8, 2020, 13:33Quote from: Bossworld on February 7, 2020, 21:05Avon ZV7s come in the proper FL sizes for around £250 fitted.
Thanks, but those look very road-focused and panned in reviews: https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/104042/avon-zv7-review
Quote from: Zxrob on February 7, 2020, 21:23I have recently fitted Toyo TR1 all round on my facelift , 225/45/16 and 195/55/15, not done to many miles on them yet but happy with them, spirited road use when I can, no trackdays (yet)
Rob
I saw these - got excited and then realised the only option is to go for non-standard tyre sizes... and I don't want tonnes of extra rubber, I just want progressive, predictable grip....
AD08RS's are still winning it for me in terms of a road legal, track capable summer tyre...
I have to agree with you, I still think the RS will be better than any of the others at that.
You have your summer and winter tyres, so get your road legal, track capable tyres!
Oh and do tell us what you think of them as everyone running AD08R's are wanting to know how good / bad they actually are!
Quote from: tricky1138 on February 10, 2020, 16:16You have your summer and winter tyres, so get your road legal, track capable tyres!
Oh and do tell us what you think of them as everyone running AD08R's are wanting to know how good / bad they actually are!
That was kind of the plan... except I know I'll keep the "track" tyres on for most of summer, so they need to very reasonable in the wet, etc... as I want to be ready for any potential impromptu trackdays.
Sadly any meaningful AD08R vs AD08RS comparison is a non-starter as that was a different setup: BC Racings on my 2007sable, while I've got Koni/Tein suspension in the 2006black... according to WIM, it's a near identical suspension geometry setup, but obviously slightly different height and completely different spring rate and damping: it would be an unfair tyre comparison if I was driving them back to back.... and the sable was written off 6 months ago...