MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Workshop => General => Topic started by: Petrus on October 6, 2019, 13:09

Title: The alternative line
Post by: Petrus on October 6, 2019, 13:09
or how to avoid swapping ends.

Assuming we all know how the mid engined Spyder behaves, we know that we need to have all done befor peeling off into the corner. We all know that braking, lifting while cornering, does a power of no good to the line we want to drive, the direction we want to travel in.

The other base line is limited traction.
Assuming we are just bordering understeer/oversteer, that there is not much margin of extra traction.

Enter the certainty of the unexpected.
Whether on track or the public road, it is a given that the unexpected wíll happen.
Even in corners you can oversee completely, another racer can change line, a heap/patch of wet leaves can have collected, you name it.

One step back.
There are basically wo ways to take a corner:
In like a fart and out like shit
or in like shit and out .... you get it.

Line defending apart, vvidence based best practice is slow in fast out.
´Slow´ between backets because we are talking adhesion limits.
It means opting for the fastest line out versus the fastest in.
One famous racers, I thínk it was Sir.Jackie Stewart remarked; better slow in than dead out.
On the public road there is no line defending so we go SIFO.
This applies to our MR in particular because of the need to have it all set up before turning in.

Ah yes, the unexpected. You need to change line, slow down.

You know that limited traction margin means you cannot ánd steer ánd brake.
The answer is brake.
Wheels straight and BRAKE!
Use all the track/lane width you have.
It is amazing how fast you can loose speed braking HÁRD in a straight line. Important that latter; straight line.

You will find yourself on the outside at a lower speed.
Thus a different line with less centrifugal force from speed, thus more traction available for a tighter turn.

It is rather obvious but oddly enough it is a hard thing to do. We are appearantly hard wired to want to take the turn; ´scared´ of the outside.

On our MR2 we have the luxury of abs and that will under braking give you a safety ´margin´ but beware: Not for braking but for driver error; you not being able to resist giving steering input.
It will not see you immediately cross the traction limit, not immediately see you plowing straight on with less braking, but it will reduce the braking effort.

Bottom line is that there most often is space for a different line option at reduced speed.
But what mid corner? Basically same thing. Braking/lifting with the wheels at an angle will most likely see you swap ends without reducing much if any speed.

Lastly; íf you have no choice but crash, our MR has the best crumple zone up front. Lots of empty space and the airbags versus an engine against your back.

Summed up:
SIFO,
try the different line,
try avoid swapping ends.


(https://pds.exblog.jp/pds/1/201410/23/75/f0032275_2121526.jpg)



Oh, and....
have fun  ;D
Title: Re: The alternative line
Post by: JB21 on October 6, 2019, 17:57
Slow in, fast out keeping it all as smooth as possible whilst still being at the limit of grip for me.

I brake hard for a short amount of time in a straight line (less brake heat), heel and toeing on the down shift yet still on the brakes slightly (trail braking) as I turn in keeping weight over the front wheels for better entry grip and once at or just before the apex back on the power, trying never to have the car neutral between acceleration and braking.

Also just wanted to add when I say 'slow in' I mean controlled in, setting the car up for the mid corner and exit without having to correct my line.
Title: Re: The alternative line
Post by: Petrus on October 6, 2019, 18:31
Some natural science:

Braking = converting kinetic energy in heat.

The same speed reduction produces the same amount of heat.

The shorter the time, the higher the temp as the heat has less time to dissipate.

The higher the temp. the greater the temp. difference with the air, the more dissipation.


As to trail breaking the opinions are divided. Bondurant (school of driving) is an avid advocate. Jackie Stewart, a firm opposer, observed about that; ´and how many world championships has hé won with that?!´

The problem with it in cars is that front and rear brake are integrated so all wheels will be braking.
As the rear weels are driven, in effect only the front are braking.
I can not see the purpose on our Spyder as it only increases understeer and generates heat.

Anyway, just take with you that the other line is an alternative to swapping ends  ;D

On a side note; I am not aware of a cool ´SiFo´ decal. Would be a nice one to have adorning the horn button.
Title: Re: The alternative line
Post by: james_ly on October 7, 2019, 13:09
Trail braking essential IMO, keeps the weight on the nose for turn in, then on the MR2 you can pretty much straighten the wheel and get on the power early. And the rears brake quite a bit on these cars, I've locked up the rears sliding on oil/coolant before.
Title: Re: The alternative line
Post by: Petrus on October 7, 2019, 18:59
Quote from: james_ly on October  7, 2019, 13:09And the rears brake quite a bit on these cars, I've locked up the rears sliding on oil/coolant before.

When trail braking, feathering the throttle, at the rear the drive will negate the braking. Trail braking is the mild version of the same principle as a rolling burn out without lighting up the rear rubber.

Kuddos to you if you can make work for you! For me it leads to understeer which I ab-so-lu-te-ly loáth.

Btw. I find you observation about either braking or accellerating interesting. Does definitely not work for me with the Spyder either.

There are many roads leading to Rome, even driving the same car!

Thanks for sharing!!