I've got some (HEL) stainless braided brake hoses on order, they should be arriving soon. I think I understand the general process for fitting them but have a few questions...
- How much brake fluid is going to come out when I disconnect the old? Is it a dribble or a stream and what can I do to minimise it?
- When I come to disconnect the old, should I disconnect at the caliper or at the brake line end first?
- Once they're installed, what is the equivalent to clamps used on flexible hoses for disconnecting a caliper and doing a job on it (such as painting)?
Quote from: househead on March 12, 2020, 11:01I've got some (HEL) stainless braided brake hoses on order, they should be arriving soon. I think I understand the general process for fitting them but have a few questions...
- How much brake fluid is going to come out when I disconnect the old? Is it a dribble or a stream and what can I do to minimise it?
- When I come to disconnect the old, should I disconnect at the caliper or at the brake line end first?
- Once they're installed, what is the equivalent to clamps used on flexible hoses for disconnecting a caliper and doing a job on it (such as painting)?
You shouldn't clamp braided lines, they'll stay kinked. Undo the caliper end first - cos it will be easier to catch the dribble from a flexible line. Leave the cap on the reservoir (that will slow the dribbling down) until you've got a pot under the line. Then you can remove the cap to speed up the process.
You will only get a steady dribble out the fitting when loosened off but leave lid on res under bonnet it helps slow the flow, dont hang about though as you dont want to run res dry whatever you do!
I use brake hose clamps on rubber flexi (not on braided replacement though) and undo caliper end first, get new hose ready then do bulkhead and swap it all over, once fitted open nipple on caliper and let it slowly gravity bleed into caliper before doing normal pump/bleeding. It doesnt really matter which way you do it as long as you dont take to long you wont loose much fluid, main thing is as below though....
First thing before you start is check to see if the bulkhead fixings and caliper banjos are going to come undone and make sure to use a proper brake pipe spanner on bulkheads to help stopping rounding them, i tried to change my flexis recently and had to give it up as the bulkhead fixing and hard pipe isnt playing ball, i can crack the nut ok but hardpipe is seized into nut and wasnt confident it was going to free up and may need to splice in new piece, i will attack again in future when i have more time and be prepared to replace some hardpipe if it doesnt come apart.
@Carolyn and @the tyrant answered while I was typing.
I particular like the correct spanner and check it all comes undone first comment.
I would add that best do any painting etc with the old hoses in situ, no need to clamp and no paint on the new hoses.
Thanks all, very helpful. I'll make sure I can loosen all fittings before committing fully!
The kit came with replacement banjos for the caliper end and some strange plastic clips which appear to be for fitting around the banjo bolt to stem flow from line while fitting.
Quote from: Joesson on March 12, 2020, 11:36@Carolyn and @the tyrant answered while I was typing.
I particular like the correct spanner and check it all comes undone first comment.
I would add that best do any painting etc with the old hoses in situ, no need to clamp and no paint on the new hoses.
Cheers. I've not decided on whether to bother with the painting yet but if I was, I had been planning to remove the caliper completely (including popping the piston out etc) ... so I guess doing that with the flexible hoses (which can be clamped) would be a good idea.
Correct spanner would be a flare nut spanner, right? What size do I need?
They look like this:
brake pipe spanner s.jpg
Tend to come in sets. Other wise, measure across the flats on your hose end.
@Carolyn I notice that the spanner is marked 7/16 and 3/8 inch is that one of your "early" AF sizes and do they now come in Metric sizes?
Quote from: Joesson on March 12, 2020, 13:15@Carolyn
I notice that the spanner is marked 7/16 and 3/8 inch is that one of your "early" AF sizes and do they now come in Metric sizes?
We have them in both. I just grabbed a random one.
10/11mm https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-Brake-Pipe-Spanner-Flare-Nut-Wrench-10-11-mm-31967-Braking-Tools/293012930892?epid=10017007915&hash=item4438ee814c:g:o5kAAOSwkl5Xe5Vv
Awesome, thanks Gaz, saved me a trip outside with the jack!
Moar toooolz!
Quote from: Carolyn on March 12, 2020, 13:28Quote from: Joesson on March 12, 2020, 13:15@Carolyn
I notice that the spanner is marked 7/16 and 3/8 inch is that one of your "early" AF sizes and do they now come in Metric sizes?
We have them in both. I just grabbed a random one.
Thank you Carolyn.
Quote from: Gaz mr-s on March 12, 2020, 13:4310/11mm https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Draper-Brake-Pipe-Spanner-Flare-Nut-Wrench-10-11-mm-31967-Braking-Tools/293012930892?epid=10017007915&hash=item4438ee814c:g:o5kAAOSwkl5Xe5Vv
Thank you Gaz.
Although if in doubt 10mm often seems to suit!
Is there an option for leave the standard hoses as is? ;)
Quote from: james_ly on March 12, 2020, 14:42Is there an option for leave the standard hoses as is? ;)
Of course, but where's the fun in that?!
Am looking for a stiffer pedal-feel and to bullet-proof the buggers.
Just done discs, pads, sliders all round and caliper/hub cleanup. Figured this would be the cherry on top.
Quote from: james_ly on March 12, 2020, 14:42Is there an option for leave the standard hoses as is? ;)
My understanding is that the stainless steel braided hose expands less than a regular hose in operation. This would give a Nano second increase in response time, perhaps gives a firmer feel to the brakes.
However the OE brakes on our 2, in good condition, have few if any bad reports normal road situations.
For track usage there may be some benefit, but for everyday road use the OE high pressure hoses and after market alternatives are available that do not affect the "feel" of what is generally accepted as an efficient compromise.
To stop the flow of fluid when disconnecting brake lines open one of the bleed nipples and push the brake pedal all the way to the floor, a bit of fluid will squirtout but just fit a rag over the nipple.
Then use something like a long breaker bar and jam it against the seat to keep the pedal down. No fluid should come out of any lines then when disconnecting.
Standard hoses in good order will give very little difference in pedal feel to fitting braided lines, so if your stock flexi hoses are in good order save your money and dont bother swapping them, i was only going to do mine as i had some in stock but im in no hurry as my stock hoses are in good shape at moment.
People often go on about how changing to braided hoses has "transformed the pedal feel" but its nearly always just because they have bled the brakes while doing the swap and nothing to do with change of flexi, Modern rubber flexi hoses dont expand like the old ones used to ;)
Quote from: househead on March 12, 2020, 11:40Thanks all, very helpful. I'll make sure I can loosen all fittings before committing fully!
The kit came with replacement banjos for the caliper end and some strange plastic clips which appear to be for fitting around the banjo bolt to stem flow from line while fitting.
I think the HELs need a sort of U clip for attaching to the shock as they dont work with the standard bolt alone? I cant remember the exact details as I didnt fit mine though.
Hopefully these are what you are describing above?
Quote from: Topdownman on March 12, 2020, 21:19Quote from: househead on March 12, 2020, 11:40Thanks all, very helpful. I'll make sure I can loosen all fittings before committing fully!
The kit came with replacement banjos for the caliper end and some strange plastic clips which appear to be for fitting around the banjo bolt to stem flow from line while fitting.
I think the HELs need a sort of U clip for attaching to the shock as they dont work with the standard bolt alone? I cant remember the exact details as I didnt fit mine though.
Hopefully these are what you are describing above?
Hmm, not quite, at least I don't think these are for that. I'll get some pics up the morrow and y'all can help me not make a pig's ear of it!
think mine came with the U clip things.
HEL lines did indeed have the issue where the connector missed the wide "ledge" that allows it to sit on the back of the mount on the strut. So, the connector just slides through the hole on the mount.
You use fresh U-clips to prop it in place tightly (and ever so rightly).
Mine have been in place for years.
The goodridges don't have this issue, but they do have a bit of an issue with the angle of the fronts I believe.
Fresh stock is best but not for the price!
Also, when I did my lines, after struggling for ages with fluid pissing everywhere the friendly mechanic on site ambled over and calmly said;
"put some cling film under the master reservoir cap, or press the brake in and prop it down against the seat. Never leak fluid". And then he ambled away again smugly. Whilst
@Tomo70 and I paused and replayed the last 2hrs in our head wondering where the F... he was 1.5hrs and about 200ml of fluid ago.
So, there you go.
I watched a YT video of one chap installing braided lines and he propped the brake pedal down. Seemed to make a lot of difference so good tip that one.
I'll get some pics up of the kit. There are some clips but I'm not quite sure how they're meant to work. Instructions in the pack are somewhat generic.
Quote from: shnazzle on March 13, 2020, 00:39HEL lines did indeed have the issue where the connector missed the wide "ledge" that allows it to sit on the back of the mount on the strut. So, the connector just slides through the hole on the mount.
You use fresh U-clips to prop it in place tightly (and ever so rightly).
Mine have been in place for years.
The goodridges don't have this issue, but they do have a bit of an issue with the angle of the fronts I believe.
Fresh stock is best but not for the price!
Am I detecting a hint of Roachford? ;)
Quote from: SV-3 on March 13, 2020, 11:01Quote from: shnazzle on March 13, 2020, 00:39HEL lines did indeed have the issue where the connector missed the wide "ledge" that allows it to sit on the back of the mount on the strut. So, the connector just slides through the hole on the mount.
You use fresh U-clips to prop it in place tightly (and ever so rightly).
Mine have been in place for years.
The goodridges don't have this issue, but they do have a bit of an issue with the angle of the fronts I believe.
Fresh stock is best but not for the price!
Am I detecting a hint of Roachford? ;)
That has gone right over my head, but then there is very little for it to get tangled in!
Here is the kit that arrived...
DE0B03F9-7B3B-4341-9665-FF613D9830D3.jpeg
So I presume the black clips do something like this...
2ED09B9E-A809-4C08-8079-0E21C11CB145.jpeg
Or are they for something else and the line should be allowed to move a little within that mount?
Looks like you need the clips too.
On ebay for £2.98, Hel performance brake hose retaining circlip clips (4 pack ).
Quote from: Topdownman on March 13, 2020, 12:24Looks like you need the clips too.
On ebay for £2.98, Hel performance brake hose retaining circlip clips (4 pack ).
Great stuff, I'll get them on order, thanks.
Quote from: shnazzle on March 13, 2020, 00:44Also, when I did my lines, after struggling for ages with fluid pissing everywhere the friendly mechanic on site ambled over and calmly said;
"put some cling film under the master reservoir cap, or press the brake in and prop it down against the seat. Never leak fluid". And then he ambled away again smugly. Whilst @Tomo70 and I paused and replayed the last 2hrs in our head wondering where the F... he was 1.5hrs and about 200ml of fluid ago.
So, there you go.
I do both, probably from previous advice you've given on here. Cling film under the cap and a brick or two on the brake pedal.
Quote from: SV-3 on March 13, 2020, 11:01Quote from: shnazzle on March 13, 2020, 00:39HEL lines did indeed have the issue where the connector missed the wide "ledge" that allows it to sit on the back of the mount on the strut. So, the connector just slides through the hole on the mount.
You use fresh U-clips to prop it in place tightly (and ever so rightly).
Mine have been in place for years.
The goodridges don't have this issue, but they do have a bit of an issue with the angle of the fronts I believe.
Fresh stock is best but not for the price!
Am I detecting a hint of Roachford? ;)
Eh?
Quote from: shnazzle on March 13, 2020, 14:34Quote from: SV-3 on March 13, 2020, 11:01Quote from: shnazzle on March 13, 2020, 00:39HEL lines did indeed have the issue where the connector missed the wide "ledge" that allows it to sit on the back of the mount on the strut. So, the connector just slides through the hole on the mount.
You use fresh U-clips to prop it in place tightly (and ever so rightly).
Mine have been in place for years.
The goodridges don't have this issue, but they do have a bit of an issue with the angle of the fronts I believe.
Fresh stock is best but not for the price!
Am I detecting a hint of Roachford? ;)
Eh?
Give a listen to "Only to be with you" (Roachford)
As the car ages the soft brass fittings on the hard line become so hard to remove that its possible to have them rounded out easily. I had this problem as well as a few others when changing the lines where the flared wrench made for this application wasn't enough. This tool was invaluable if you can find it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WDYJFC0/ref=dp_cerb_1
Quote from: Dev on March 14, 2020, 15:16As the car ages the soft brass fittings on the hard line become so hard to remove that its possible to have them rounded out easily. I had this problem as well as a few others when changing the lines where the flared wrench made for this application wasn't enough. This tool was invaluable if you can find it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00WDYJFC0/ref=dp_cerb_1
Thanks Dev, I'll invest in that if the flared wrench and gallons of plusgas don't do the job!
Can anyone confirm the black plastic clips are to be used like this...
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=68989.0;attach=8979;image
Or do they have some other use?