have a look at 3:50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ke2E874fto&t=63s
Dont you have devs bushes? If no its worth the cash for them for sure.
Also I have put some sound insulation to the doors last weekend. Total weight gained is around 500-600 grams but the doors dont sound like a rattle can when you bang them with your finger.
Off topic: How do you get on with the door and the arm rest there? Im hitting it when steering and i also noticed when the door card is off its more comfortable to drive.
The TRD ´brace´ does basically the same as Dev´s spacer but higher up. It´s a technically very cool solution.
Ok, more costly than Dev´s but that is just a chunk of nylon; cheaper but imo way less value for money.
Mind, functionally the are a lót of vfm and am pleased with them.
Dev himself said his are better than the TD ones he also has but nevertheless keeps them in. Still think the TRD one übercool and if it would be cheaper I´d fit a set and have even more door bracing like him too.
I have had the door panel off several times. Looked at making one in foam board but find them very nicely functional with the sturdy handle. Just took the speakers out.
No issues with space.
p.s. with the subframe spacers and door braces I coúld actually warrant a TRD sticker ;-)
p.p.s. sent a JDM seller a mail asking for a special Covid19 discount price ;-)
Quote from: Petrus on May 18, 2020, 10:02The TRD ´brace´ does basically the same as Dev´s spacer but higher up. It´s a technically very cool solution.
Ok, more costly than Dev´s but that is just a chunk of nylon; cheaper but imo way less value for money.
Mind, functionally the are a lót of vfm and am pleased with them.
Dev himself said his are better than the TD ones he also has but nevertheless keeps them in. Still think the TRD one übercool and if it would be cheaper I´d fit a set and have even more door bracing like him too.
I have had the door panel off several times. Looked at making one in foam board but find them very nicely functional with the sturdy handle. Just took the speakers out.
No issues with space.
p.s. with the subframe spacers and door braces I coúld actually warrant a TRD sticker ;-)
p.p.s. sent a JDM seller a mail asking for a special Covid19 discount price ;-)
Let me know on the price, I found a set for 130 or 170 dollars dont remember.
Quote from: Nvy on May 18, 2020, 10:35Let me know on the price, I found a set for 130 or 170 dollars dont remember.
Look véry carefully as there are two kits. The ZZW30 kit is the odd one out.
The part number MS304-0001, plenty of them available on Fleabay for around £120, until you have to pay the man and they all rise to around £160 plus delivered.
Quote from: Call the midlife! on May 18, 2020, 10:59The part number MS304-0001, plenty of them available on Fleabay for around £120, until you have to pay the man and they all rise to around £160 plus delivered.
The odd thing is that despite the same part number the kits are not the same.
For the MR2 there are two and then there are one or two more for other models. The base kit, the spacer in the door and the rider in the door post are the same but they come with different additional ´spacers´.
The seller must explicitely state it is the ZZW30 kit and the foto should show a black ´frame´ shaped thingamy. Not too many of thóse.
Yes, ebay is getting riddled with more and more scams. Mind you it´s ebay, not the sellers. It ranges from creative exchange rates to their global shipping ´service´.
I am trying to avoid ebay wherever possible.
I'm not talking about ebay scams as such, it's the VAT that makes them prohibitive. That reference number is as quoted on Spyderchat and will bring up the appropriate parts but as always, caveat emptor as there's no guarantee a seller isn't using stock images.
Quote from: Call the midlife! on May 18, 2020, 11:50I'm not talking about ebay scams as such, it's the VAT that makes them prohibitive. That reference number is as quoted on Spyderchat and will bring up the appropriate parts but as always, caveat emptor as there's no guarantee a seller isn't using stock images.
The number is correct just not model specific oddly enough. You´d think the -01 at the end would give ample opportunity to distinguish but no.
Just to add to this thread.
Dev's bushes do the exact same thing for a lot less money. Although, admittedly, the TRD stabilisers are a lot prettier and a lot more user-friendly.
Just...for the money... I'm happy with my blocks :)
If a set of the TRD landed on my lap for, say 25% of the price, I'd definitely swap over.
The person in the above video clearly cares more about the noise than what it does. Also aware that the effect is amplified by stiffer suspension.
There are a few more videos out there with slalom pre and post installs of the TRD stabilisers and there's no doubt that it does definitely help steering input and corner stability. Especially in a convertible.
Definitely worthwhile mod but as per usual, it comes with downsides.
Quote from: shnazzle on May 18, 2020, 13:17Dev's bushes do the exact same thing for a lot less money. Although, admittedly, the TRD stabilisers are a lot prettier and a lot more user-friendly.
Just...for the money... I'm happy with my blocks :)
If a set of the TRD landed on my lap for, say 25% of the price, I'd definitely swap over.
The person in the above video clearly cares more about the noise than what it does. Also aware that the effect is amplified by stiffer suspension.
There are a few more videos out there with slalom pre and post installs of the TRD stabilisers and there's no doubt that it does definitely help steering input and corner stability. Especially in a convertible.
Definitely worthwhile mod but as per usual, it comes with downsides.
As I observed the TRD one shims the lock which sits higher in the door. As such it has a geometric advantage.
The extra noise is non-issue in the MR2.
The down side of Dev´s is that if you want them to brace properly, the door will need more ... dedication to open/close. The TRD one is superior in this aspect.
Bottom line is that I am totally happy with Devs´ spacers, but will still fit the TRD ones in I can score a ´cheap´ set because they add more rigidity still.
...ánd I really like the cool engneering.
The door opening is súch an Achilles heel in the cabrio. Open both doors and have a look from the side with eyes at say half a meter hight.
By all means add an imaginary brace at Dev´s space hight. Then at door lock height.
The door lock spacer has an advantage.
Dev´s is wáy better than nothing.
For the price I´d say Dev´s is a must for any Spyder.
If you can swing it; think the added bracing/vallue is worth it; the TRD ís better.
And if you want to go nuts; fit both :-) After all, it´s the lightest chassis bracing you can fit.
I have the TRD hinges. It was debatable if they actually work and I felt that they did. It is what inspired me to make the door bushings. The TRD piece is a very neatly made and very high quality part but there is a big downside. That little plastic ramp that attaches to the door does not hold in well and pops off. The way it clips in is terrible design and I tried all sorts of things to keep it in place but they eventually fall off the metal clips they provide when you open the door randomly.
Eventually my worst fear came true and I lost one the plastic ramps and you cannot get replacements. The interference is plastic on plastic, not metal and the foot print of contact is small.
Having said that I set out to make the door bushings not to mimic just the TRD part but also the effect that mx- 5 owners have with their version of replacing their rubberized door spacers with delrin which is located in the same location. To my surprise they are not twice as effective they are five times better. I have tried other materials for the door bushings but they ended up cracking. The door bushing material that I finally used (alloy 910) was revolutionary because it was not just hard as metal it was flexible at the limit so it can take a beating, it is also costly and very hard to print with. I was determined to make them work and had to modify my 3D printer extensively and learn all sorts of firmware modifications to get them to work with not much help from the 3D printing community because they were going though the same issues. One day after trying many things to get the material to sick without warping by adjusting bed temps, extruder temps and glue sticks it finally happened. I also have a specialized dryer because the material absorbs moisture quickly and ruins the prints.
The amount of energy I had to put into getting them done was a colossal undertaking. What you have before you is not a simple piece of cheap plastic, there is a lot of labor of love and struggle in each piece that made this endeavor possible.
I might be bias here but from my own observations I tested the TRD piece with and without the bushings. It was easy to do because those plastic pieces that are fastened to the door pop off easily.
I felt that the door bushings did their job and there was no advantage to having the TRD part in combination. So much so I wanted to sell the TRD part to Petrus since he was interested. The only reason why I couldn't sell it was the missing plastic thing that fell out otherwise I had no need for them anymore but I would have certainly kept them if they added some additional effect.
Funny you should mention those plastic bits. I hadn't noticed those until I saw the video above and my first thought was... Those are going to get lost.
The mounting mechanism looks flimsy at best and then when he puts the plastic pieces in and hits them, you can hear that they're not in their solid. You can tell by the way he touches and hits them that he isn't convinced either.
I didn't fully appreciate how much time you spent on these.
It is a very odd material I have to say. It's like some weird alien matter. It feels like solid nylon, but it is very hard to file down. When it does, it files like metal.
I love mine and I retract my statement of replacing them ever.
They are definitely effective. There is absolutely no doubt. If anything the clips above prove that anyway with telemetry.
Quote from: shnazzle on May 19, 2020, 07:23Funny you should mention those plastic bits. I hadn't noticed those until I saw the video above and my first thought was... Those are going to get lost.
You need to bend out a tab a bit which increases the pressure holding them put. Also I would add two component glue.
I had a disagreement the other day on a social network with a bloke who was looking for interest should he decide to make some of what he described as "just a piece of plastic stuck to the door".
As he says it's nothing new and been used on the MXs for years, although he used Dev's YouTube video to demonstrate the fitment and use.
I suggested it was bad form and there was more to it than that but just got met with abuse...
Quote from: Call the midlife! on May 19, 2020, 09:39I had a disagreement the other day on a social network with a bloke who was looking for interest should he decide to make some of what he described as "just a piece of plastic stuck to the door".
As he says it's nothing new and been used on the MXs for years, although he used Dev's YouTube video to demonstrate the fitment and use.
I suggested it was bad form and there was more to it than that but just got met with abuse...
Please refer to my recent mention of Darwinism, you seem to have "met" an example of those that exist just to show what can go wrong with evolution.
Quote from: Call the midlife! on May 19, 2020, 09:39I had a disagreement the other day on a social network with a bloke who was looking for interest should he decide to make some of what he described as "just a piece of plastic stuck to the door".
As he says it's nothing new and been used on the MXs for years, although he used Dev's YouTube video to demonstrate the fitment and use.
I suggested it was bad form and there was more to it than that but just got met with abuse...
Wonders of Facebook. Home of the keyboard warrior and experts of all
Well, it ís juts a bit of Delrin.
Also it is not new to the MR2, appearantly is/was used before and wider in the MX
That it took a pita to produce it and that it effectively braces the door may add to the appreciation of the product but a piece of Delrin it is.
It is like the quartz cristal in an accurate watch. It is beyond brilliance from the principle to development and manufacture but go to watch forum and you get virtually crucified for venting that you think it a masterpiece.
Back to the TRD door lock brace, that is like a mechanical watch.
I appreciate both. And other watch technology. I have several vintage watches with ´inferior´ tech., even primitive all mechanical ones. No sénse in it really as the delightfully áwesome Casio F91W beats all but the Seiko SDGA001, so with those two you need no other.
So, if I can score a TRD one ´cheap´ I will go for it and have bóth in the door. Imo it will give additional bracing and if not it is a visible cool bit of engineering; like a mechanical watch with see through case back.
@Dev, is it delrin? It doesn't feel that same.
I have some delrin bits and bobs from vaping gear and this stuff seems a lot less brittle and softer.
Quote from: shnazzle on May 19, 2020, 10:33@Dev, is it delrin? It doesn't feel that same.
I have some delrin bits and bobs from vaping gear and this stuff seems a lot less brittle and softer.
Never smoked nor vaped so no clue about what´s used there but ´Delrin´ is like ´rubber´; it is produced by different chemical firms with slightly different formulas and also sold as Ultraform, Celcon, Ramtal, Duracon, Kepital, Polypenco,Hostaform et al.
Oh, it is also known as POM...
About price and value, well, that is a mine field.
Again watches: A Rolex Submariner is basically the same as a Vostok Amphibia mechanical dive watch costing a fráction. Steve Zissou conspicuously wear one with very good reason.
Today even the Amphibia is ´overpriced´ as there are superior plastic quartz ones.
Yet the demand for the as a time keeping instrument hoplessly outdated Rolex outstrips production even though the material value of its archaic mechanical technology is not a hundreths of its price. It is called added brand value.
The TRD door thing is both mechanical and ... ´TRD´ so :))
Alloy 910 seems to be very different from delrin.
Totally different properties.
Delrin is harder it seems where alloy 910 is definitely softer.
From reading it does indeed seem that alloy 910 would be much better suited to using as the door braces than delrin.
Makes me wonder actually
@Dev... Could you not print smaller and better equivalents of the plastic TRD strikers?
So keep the TRD bit that goes on the frame, but replace the bits that go on the door with better alloy 910 versions?
Best of both worlds?
Quote from: shnazzle on May 19, 2020, 07:23Funny you should mention those plastic bits. I hadn't noticed those until I saw the video above and my first thought was... Those are going to get lost.
The mounting mechanism looks flimsy at best and then when he puts the plastic pieces in and hits them, you can hear that they're not in their solid. You can tell by the way he touches and hits them that he isn't convinced either.
I didn't fully appreciate how much time you spent on these.
It is a very odd material I have to say. It's like some weird alien matter. It feels like solid nylon, but it is very hard to file down. When it does, it files like metal.
I love mine and I retract my statement of replacing them ever.
They are definitely effective. There is absolutely no doubt. If anything the clips above prove that anyway with telemetry.
Im very appreciative that you are appreciative. The material is wonderful but extremely hard to print. Its what a lot of these drone hobbyists guys are using for replacement parts. There are better materials out there that I could have tried like all of the carbon fiber infused stuff but that is just ridiculous in cost which requires specialized nozzles so they don't wear out. The skies the limit but most people would not entertain the cost and in the end It might not actually work out as well but the marketing would be great.
In regards to the TRD part if anyone get it you will know right away about those plastic ramps that come off. Also if you motion the door you will notice there is a lot more play in the door compared to the door bushings. As a hobbyist I can say its no contest but I understand why they did it because you cant be messing with the doors hinges, its a safety and convince issue therefore the TRD part will be mild in comparison.
The door bushings might be for some a little harder to close the door but you are getting the maximum effect.
Quote from: shnazzle on May 19, 2020, 11:21Alloy 910 seems to be very different from delrin.
Totally different properties.
Delrin is harder it seems where alloy 910 is definitely softer.
From reading it does indeed seem that alloy 910 would be much better suited to using as the door braces than delrin.
Makes me wonder actually @Dev... Could you not print smaller and better equivalents of the plastic TRD strikers?
So keep the TRD bit that goes on the frame, but replace the bits that go on the door with better alloy 910 versions?
Best of both worlds?
Alloy 910 seems to be very different from delrin.
Totally different properties.
Delrin is harder it seems where alloy 910 is definitely softer.
From reading it does indeed seem that alloy 910 would be much better suited to using as the door braces than delrin.
Makes me wonder actually @Dev... Could you not print smaller and better equivalents of the plastic TRD strikers?
So keep the TRD bit that goes on the frame, but replace the bits that go on the door with better alloy 910 versions?
Best of both worlds?
The Mazda guys use delrin for to replace the rubber isolators that go bad in time. They found out using this stiff material greatly improved the rigidity of the car.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-2018-Mazda-Miata-mx-engineinwrongplace -Replacement-Delrin-Door-Bushings-Set-Pair-Bushing/202981973877?hash=item2f42ab1f75:g:UGIAAOSwQOFeSgVi
I thought about Delrin but it would be a large undertaking of having a company mold and make them for our application. Then when it would come to fitment we would have a big issue with everyones car being a little different. After that the problem would be that we would have to drill holes in the door or frame of the car with a nuts and bolts operation. I cant imagine anyone wanting to go though all of this ruining their car in the process.
Now you think about the our version of it. The material is stiff but also flexible at the limit and it can be mounted with double sided tape making it easy for anyone to install and also be adjusted. Sometimes simplicity is divinity. Also sometimes people think its just too easy and rudimentary unless it involves some kind of complexity of design to be justified as anything good. Sometimes the simple solutions are the best ones and they are often met with a lot of resistance and controversy. In the end its easy to install and it functions.
I somehow think that link above is not going to work......
Quote from: Call the midlife! on May 19, 2020, 09:39I had a disagreement the other day on a social network with a bloke who was looking for interest should he decide to make some of what he described as "just a piece of plastic stuck to the door".
As he says it's nothing new and been used on the MXs for years, although he used Dev's YouTube video to demonstrate the fitment and use.
I suggested it was bad form and there was more to it than that but just got met with abuse...
It doesn't surprise me. People like to look for complexity of what they don't understand to justify something of value. If it looks easy it will be criticized even if it works but they may not understand what goes into it.
I had a few critics that went out of their way to demonize the modification when I was developing it and behave badly in a mean spirited kind of way. I always see stuff like this as being a good omen and once the reviews came I sold many sets. There was a lot of thought that went into making it simple and cost effective so that I would sell and it exceeded my expectations. If I could make it even more simple and bring down the cost I would have as there is no point in taking advantage of a community, im a hobbyist first. As far as the critics go it comes with the territory.
Quote from: Topdownman on May 19, 2020, 15:52I somehow think that link above is not going to work......
Sorry about that. I wanted to show the mx-5 product that our bushings were loosely copied from. If you notice they are relatively in the same area. The mx-engineinwrongplace owners had a significant result and that was what I was aiming for. They also have some compromises in opening and closing the doors so its not exactly perfect but the yield in results makes it worth it.
Here is a picture of the Delrin bushings for the mx-engineinwrongplace
img_3409_1.jpg
Quote from: shnazzle on May 19, 2020, 11:21Makes me wonder actually @Dev... Could you not print smaller and better equivalents of the plastic TRD strikers?
So keep the TRD bit that goes on the frame, but replace the bits that go on the door with better alloy 910 versions?
Best of both worlds?
That was actually my first thought when I decided to see if I can make my own. I actually did try to use filled plastic spacers but its just not possible. Also it would be dangerous if there was any interference with the lock mechanism. My primary concern was safety.
If you look at the TRD part it is spring loaded and moves when it the ramp plastic pushes against it. The design was just to complex to replicate. The Mazda MX-5 solution is much better in my opinion. There is a lot I don't understand about the door bushings and its possible some of the insulated felling people get might actually be some kind of hard spring damping action that makes the car feel insulated. I always thought about how this could be improved and there is just no other way based on the fact that they work quiet well.
Quote from: Dev on May 18, 2020, 22:55I have the TRD hinges. It was debatable if they actually work and I felt that they did. It is what inspired me to make the door bushings. The TRD piece is a very neatly made and very high quality part but there is a big downside. That little plastic ramp that attaches to the door does not hold in well and pops off.
I had this problem on left doors only. I disassembled everything and clean up mounting points. And it fixed the issue. Just in case I bend a little this metal clip attached to door.