I am having some noise for a while now. It can be best described as driving a car with straight cut gears. It is in the low revs up to 2600 rpms and then disappears. More noisy when cold in the morning.
Things replaced:
1. Belt tensioner.
2. Oil tensioner.
3. Alternator.
4. Idler pulley.
5. Water pump 5k km ago.
6. Belt 5k km ago.
7. Gearbox with a second hand one, filled with good fluid. The noise was there prior to gearbox replacement.
Car is lowered on MeisterRs if that matters.
Any ideas what to look for?
What tyres are on it?
Had something similar on a different car. Sounded like all bearings were shot. Though don't recall being rev specific.
Was it there before you replaced the oil tensioner?
Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2020, 09:23Was it there before you replaced the oil tensioner?
Yes. The noise persist through all of the above replacements.
Quote from: Ardent on July 29, 2020, 09:15What tyres are on it?
Had something similar on a different car. Sounded like all bearings were shot. Though don't recall being rev specific.
I have it on both of my tires sets - Advans and Winter tires.
Do you have a stethoscope?
Does it whine when stationary?
Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2020, 09:53Do you have a stethoscope?
Does it whine when stationary?
I dont have a stethoscope but can get one if necessary.
While stationary idling it doesnt make the noise, also when revving no noise. When on the lift and into gear revving no noise. It does it only when on the ground while driving, when there is load on the wheels.
Can it be that the car is too low and the driveshafts are making noise? The wheel bearings are all replaced too, all 4 corners.
Bloody hell - most of the car is brand new!!
Drive shafts or brakes.... I had a whine that pretty much fitted that description a few years ago. Turned out a pad wear indicator at the back was starting to touch the brake disc.
Could it be a rusted disc protector plate catching somewhere?
Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2020, 10:08Bloody hell - most of the car is brand new!!
Drive shafts or brakes.... I had a whine that pretty much fitted that description a few years ago. Turned out a pad wear indicator at the back was starting to touch the brake disc.
Brakes all new too, sloted discs + yellow stuff pads. I could try to remove the boots from the shafts and re grease them to see if thats gonna help.
Like you said all of the suspension and the brakes + bearings were changed so the only thing left are the driveshafts.
Quote from: Topdownman on July 29, 2020, 11:10Could it be a rusted disc protector plate catching somewhere?
Will check them out tonight, last time when the car was in the air seemed fine.
Not sure it matches your situation, but I recall some slotted discs made odd noises, but that was more speed related not revs.
Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 10:02Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2020, 09:53Do you have a stethoscope?
Does it whine when stationary?
I dont have a stethoscope but can get one if necessary.
While stationary idling it doesnt make the noise, also when revving no noise. When on the lift and into gear revving no noise. It does it only when on the ground while driving, when there is load on the wheels.
Can it be that the car is too low and the driveshafts are making noise? The wheel bearings are all replaced too, all 4 corners.
Drive shaft bearings aren't eternal, in the early days of front wheel drive I recall particularly the Austin 1800's stranded with one front wheel outside the bodywork.
My 2002, 2 started to leak fluid from the drive shaft boots at around 60k. What I found in there was liquid, no longer the grease that was put in there when assembled.
I had not heard a noise, but perhaps caught the problem in time.
PS.
What is / where is an "Oil tensioner"?
Quote from: Joesson on July 29, 2020, 13:21Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 10:02Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2020, 09:53Do you have a stethoscope?
Does it whine when stationary?
I dont have a stethoscope but can get one if necessary.
While stationary idling it doesnt make the noise, also when revving no noise. When on the lift and into gear revving no noise. It does it only when on the ground while driving, when there is load on the wheels.
Can it be that the car is too low and the driveshafts are making noise? The wheel bearings are all replaced too, all 4 corners.
Drive shaft bearings aren't eternal, in the early days of front wheel drive I recall particularly the Austin 1800's stranded with one front wheel outside the bodywork.
My 2002, 2 started to leak fluid from the drive shaft boots at around 60k. What I found in there was liquid, no longer the grease that was put in there when assembled.
I had not heard a noise, but perhaps caught the problem in time.
PS.
What is / where is an "Oil tensioner"?
Guessing he means timing chain tensioner :) I guess it does work on oil pressure to release haha.
Helen's old car had this noise as well. And mine has it on overrun a bit. Her's didn't have slotted/drilled discs, just plain. So that's not it
Thanks for the suggestion
@shnazzle.
In the days of vee belts I saw a mechanic check out a "noise" by trickling water onto the vee belt, the noise stopped, problem resolved.
The auxiliary drive belt and related pulleys are today's equivalent of the vee belt and I suggest as close as you'll get to "straight cut gears" on a 2.
I doubt that a trickle of water onto the belt would damage anything and just may help, or at least eliminate, one source.
Could worn engine mounts allow movement/vibration?
Quote from: Topdownman on July 29, 2020, 13:57Could worn engine mounts allow movement/vibration?
Mine are filled with poly and I do have the vibration but I dont mind it. Just try to watch a video with a straight dog box gears but in low rps. It almost sounds like a root style supercharger.
Quote from: shnazzle on July 29, 2020, 13:37Quote from: Joesson on July 29, 2020, 13:21Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 10:02Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2020, 09:53Do you have a stethoscope?
Does it whine when stationary?
I dont have a stethoscope but can get one if necessary.
While stationary idling it doesnt make the noise, also when revving no noise. When on the lift and into gear revving no noise. It does it only when on the ground while driving, when there is load on the wheels.
Can it be that the car is too low and the driveshafts are making noise? The wheel bearings are all replaced too, all 4 corners.
Drive shaft bearings aren't eternal, in the early days of front wheel drive I recall particularly the Austin 1800's stranded with one front wheel outside the bodywork.
My 2002, 2 started to leak fluid from the drive shaft boots at around 60k. What I found in there was liquid, no longer the grease that was put in there when assembled.
I had not heard a noise, but perhaps caught the problem in time.
PS.
What is / where is an "Oil tensioner"?
Guessing he means timing chain tensioner :) I guess it does work on oil pressure to release haha.
Helen's old car had this noise as well. And mine has it on overrun a bit. Her's didn't have slotted/drilled discs, just plain. So that's not it
Are your cars lowered on coilovers? I recall reading something about early years driveshafts(dont remember exactly what) and the guys were recommending re greasing to stop some kind of noise. Im afraid that the car is lowered too much because the guys who got the coils on didnt set the ride height the same as the TTE suspension.
Quote from: Joesson on July 29, 2020, 13:55Thanks for the suggestion @shnazzle.
In the days of vee belts I saw a mechanic check out a "noise" by trickling water onto the vee belt, the noise stopped, problem resolved.
The auxiliary drive belt and related pulleys are today's equivalent of the vee belt and I suggest as close as you'll get to "straight cut gears" on a 2.
I doubt that a trickle of water onto the belt would damage anything and just may help, or at least eliminate, one source.
So the suggestion is to spray the belt with some water? It could stop any noise caused by slipping.
Maybe after the driveshafts I could check the power steering pump and AC? Are these known to go bad and how one would sound?
Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 14:10Maybe after the driveshafts I could check the power steering pump and AC? Are these known to go bad and how one would sound?
These are the last not replaced things in the belt. I could try to remove the belt and drive the car but I dont have lift at home so its gonna be tricky to get it back on.
Power steering is electric, in the front, not on the belt.
With the symptoms you're describing, (only under power and moving) I think you can discount the A/C.
I doubt it is anything belt related.
More likely driveshafts or running gear.
Removing the big steel bands on the boots will let you clean and re-grease (which is never a bad idea, as dirty brownish white goop tends to be where black graphite grease should be).
You can buy replacement bands and a tool to put them on for not much dosh.
Getting the belt on from above is very doable.
Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 14:07Quote from: shnazzle on July 29, 2020, 13:37Quote from: Joesson on July 29, 2020, 13:21Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 10:02Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2020, 09:53Do you have a stethoscope?
Does it whine when stationary?
I dont have a stethoscope but can get one if necessary.
While stationary idling it doesnt make the noise, also when revving no noise. When on the lift and into gear revving no noise. It does it only when on the ground while driving, when there is load on the wheels.
Can it be that the car is too low and the driveshafts are making noise? The wheel bearings are all replaced too, all 4 corners.
Drive shaft bearings aren't eternal, in the early days of front wheel drive I recall particularly the Austin 1800's stranded with one front wheel outside the bodywork.
My 2002, 2 started to leak fluid from the drive shaft boots at around 60k. What I found in there was liquid, no longer the grease that was put in there when assembled.
I had not heard a noise, but perhaps caught the problem in time.
PS.
What is / where is an "Oil tensioner"?
Guessing he means timing chain tensioner :) I guess it does work on oil pressure to release haha.
Helen's old car had this noise as well. And mine has it on overrun a bit. Her's didn't have slotted/drilled discs, just plain. So that's not it
Are your cars lowered on coilovers? I recall reading something about early years driveshafts(dont remember exactly what) and the guys were recommending re greasing to stop some kind of noise. Im afraid that the car is lowered too much because the guys who got the coils on didnt set the ride height the same as the TTE suspension.
Both lowered. Her's on TTE springs and mine on BC coilovers, a fair bit lower than the TTE springs. So I don't think it's that
Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 14:09Quote from: Joesson on July 29, 2020, 13:55Thanks for the suggestion @shnazzle.
In the days of vee belts I saw a mechanic check out a "noise" by trickling water onto the vee belt, the noise stopped, problem resolved.
The auxiliary drive belt and related pulleys are today's equivalent of the vee belt and I suggest as close as you'll get to "straight cut gears" on a 2.
I doubt that a trickle of water onto the belt would damage anything and just may help, or at least eliminate, one source.
So the suggestion is to spray the belt with some water? It could stop any noise caused by slipping.
More a trickle, for example, with engine running put a drinking straw into a container of water and put your finger at the top end of the straw.
Be aware of moving parts.
Point the straw where you want the water to fall and release your finger.
It would stop or alter the noise of the belt contacting the pulleys and so you would hear if that was the source of your problem.
Not a cure just a possible help with a diagnosis.
PS
Sorry, just noticed that the noise is there only when being driven so the above would not help.
Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 14:14Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 14:10Maybe after the driveshafts I could check the power steering pump and AC? Are these known to go bad and how one would sound?
These are the last not replaced things in the belt. I could try to remove the belt and drive the car but I dont have lift at home so its gonna be tricky to get it back on.
As Carolyn said removing the auxiliary belt from above with car on the ground is doable, must be, I managed, but did find that I needed another pair of hands to move the tensioner while I put the belt on. Also prudent to make a sketch of the belt and pulley positions before taking the belt off.
Quote from: Joesson on July 29, 2020, 16:36Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 14:14Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 14:10Maybe after the driveshafts I could check the power steering pump and AC? Are these known to go bad and how one would sound?
These are the last not replaced things in the belt. I could try to remove the belt and drive the car but I dont have lift at home so its gonna be tricky to get it back on.
As Carolyn said removing the auxiliary belt from above with car on the ground is doable, must be, I managed, but did find that I needed another pair of hands to move the tensioner while I put the belt on. Also prudent to make a sketch of the belt and pulley positions before taking the belt off.
there's a trick for doing it one-handed in the 'howto'.
Is it always with a passenger? O:-)
Quote from: Carolyn on July 29, 2020, 17:19Quote from: Joesson on July 29, 2020, 16:36Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 14:14Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 14:10Maybe after the driveshafts I could check the power steering pump and AC? Are these known to go bad and how one would sound?
These are the last not replaced things in the belt. I could try to remove the belt and drive the car but I dont have lift at home so its gonna be tricky to get it back on.
As Carolyn said removing the auxiliary belt from above with car on the ground is doable, must be, I managed, but did find that I needed another pair of hands to move the tensioner while I put the belt on. Also prudent to make a sketch of the belt and pulley positions before taking the belt off.
there's a trick for doing it one-handed in the 'howto'.
Unfortunately my "troubles" came before your helpful advice Carolyn!
I think I am right in saying that grooved discs are handed - have you installed them correctly?
Norman
Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 08:59I am having some noise for a while now. It can be best described as driving a car with straight cut gears. It is in the low revs up to 2600 rpms and then disappears. More noisy when cold in the morning.
Things replaced:
1. Belt tensioner.
2. Oil tensioner.
3. Alternator.
4. Idler pulley.
5. Water pump 5k km ago.
6. Belt 5k km ago.
7. Gearbox with a second hand one, filled with good fluid. The noise was there prior to gearbox replacement.
Car is lowered on MeisterRs if that matters.
Any ideas what to look for?
I had a similar problem... Dare I ask if you have a passenger? I found if I leave mine at home to look after the kids, the whining stops....
Quote from: BahnStormer on July 29, 2020, 19:58Quote from: Nvy on July 29, 2020, 08:59I am having some noise for a while now. It can be best described as driving a car with straight cut gears. It is in the low revs up to 2600 rpms and then disappears. More noisy when cold in the morning.
Things replaced:
1. Belt tensioner.
2. Oil tensioner.
3. Alternator.
4. Idler pulley.
5. Water pump 5k km ago.
6. Belt 5k km ago.
7. Gearbox with a second hand one, filled with good fluid. The noise was there prior to gearbox replacement.
Car is lowered on MeisterRs if that matters.
Any ideas what to look for?
I had a similar problem... Dare I ask if you have a passenger? I found if I leave mine at home to look after the kids, the whining stops....
Feeeling brave... she doesn't even know this forum exists :D
What about the half shaft? It should have bearing in there right?
Quote from: Nvy on July 30, 2020, 08:01What about the half shaft? It should have bearing in there right?
Do you mean the carrier bearing (bolted to the engine)?
That could be failing, I have not come across such a failure but I see no reason why not - it's a bearing. As such failure is rare, I suspect you could get one from a breaker and it would be fine.
Quote from: Carolyn on July 30, 2020, 08:52Quote from: Nvy on July 30, 2020, 08:01What about the half shaft? It should have bearing in there right?
Do you mean the carrier bearing (bolted to the engine)?
That could be failing, I have not come across such a failure but I see no reason why not - it's a bearing. As such failure is rare, I suspect you could get one from a breaker and it would be fine.
Yeah, I mean that one, I saw on youtube some mic thing that the guy was using to diagnose wheel bearing noise. I will check whats available and if I can justify the price will go for it.
Quote from: Nvy on July 30, 2020, 09:02Quote from: Carolyn on July 30, 2020, 08:52Quote from: Nvy on July 30, 2020, 08:01What about the half shaft? It should have bearing in there right?
Do you mean the carrier bearing (bolted to the engine)?
That could be failing, I have not come across such a failure but I see no reason why not - it's a bearing. As such failure is rare, I suspect you could get one from a breaker and it would be fine.
Yeah, I mean that one, I saw on youtube some mic thing that the guy was using to diagnose wheel bearing noise. I will check whats available and if I can justify the price will go for it.
Using "some mic" to diagnose wheel bearing noise intrigued / amused me.
I found a YouTube clip of a "Steelman" device " for a hundred bucks! that apparently determined which of left side or right side front wheel bearing was faulty.
Seems a long way from the wheel bearings I am more familiar with, they were not the sealed for life units of today, they had an inner and outer and ball bearings between and could be adjusted. Testing was by rocking the elevated wheel and spinning it to listen for a broken ball.
I would think that rocking and spinning an elevated wheel on a modern car would be a lower cost option to determine the state of a wheel bearing than a hundred buck/ $100 gadget that would spend the rest of its life on the shelf.
As has been highlighted on here several times, the difficult part of car mechanics/ repairs is diagnosis and that ability comes with experience.
That is why, for non professionals, a forum such as this, where the collective experience of many and some / one in particular is such a benefit.
But the proviso is that diagnosis at a distance is even more difficult and requires a methodical approach and working through the possibilities, from simplest/ most obvious to the most difficult / obscure.
Is it normal for the idler pulley to have play? Can post video later.
Quote from: Nvy on August 2, 2020, 19:17Is it normal for the idler pulley to have play? Can post video later.
No, it should not have any play. Maybe you've found your whine??
Quote from: Carolyn on August 2, 2020, 19:57Quote from: Nvy on August 2, 2020, 19:17Is it normal for the idler pulley to have play? Can post video later.
No, it should not have any play. Maybe you've found your whine??
I think so, ill try to replace it later this week. Here is a video:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FTDFXO_PFbnriusi9NHnMXHQrh2gIo5S/view?usp=sharing
@Carolyn Any tips for removing the idler pulley, the bolt seems quite rusty and I am afraid not to break it.
It's pretty robust.
Give it a spray and let it sit for a while- then go for it!
spanner on both ends.
The new pulley has the same play like the old one. Replaced pulley plus belt, the noise is still there (facepalm)
@Carolyn Can I spray WD40 in the half shaft bearing to check if the noise is going to change?
Quote from: Nvy on August 7, 2020, 11:46@Carolyn Can I spray WD40 in the half shaft bearing to check if the noise is going to change?
See no reason why not.
I think i had a similar thing to what you're describing - when i first test drove the car it sounded like a turbo spooling up/alternator whine. I upgraded my exhaust etc aswell which sort of drowned out the noise.
Within the last month though, my waterpump started leaking, since changing this, I havent been able to hear the whine at all.