MR2 Roadster Owners Club

Hi there I have just acquired my MR2, prefacelift. It has 112,000 on the clock. Precat removal is on my mind. Previous owner didn't have any knowledge of what precat is. I'd like to find out if I still have the original exhaust manifold or if it has been replaced with a decat one.

Is there an easy way to check this?

Thanks.

post a picture- we'll tell you.

Quote from: treeroy on September  5, 2020, 17:21Hi there I have just acquired my MR2, prefacelift. It has 112,000 on the clock. Precat removal is on my mind. Previous owner didn't have any knowledge of what precat is. I'd like to find out if I still have the original exhaust manifold or if it has been replaced with a decat one.

Is there an easy way to check this?

Thanks.

Have a look in
Workshop
Maintenance problems and trouble shooting
Pre cats how I removed them.

There are 21 pages of discussion and advice accrued over many years.

Thanks @Joesson  yeah I have had a look at the multiple threads regarding precat but it is not too clear.

Quote from: Carolyn on September  5, 2020, 17:35post a picture- we'll tell you.

I'm assuming the exhaust manifold is under the big silver metal cover?
Tried to look either side but can't really see much. Doesn't look very easy to remove either since theres pipes coming out of holes within it.

(https://i.imgur.com/c1aifJO.jpg)

You almost certainly have a stock manifold. It is possible to find something aftermarket under that heat shield - but very unlikely  If the engine isn't using oil - don't worry about it.

Quote from: Carolyn on September  5, 2020, 18:35You almost certainly have a stock manifold. It is possible to find something aftermarket under that heat shield - but very unlikely  If the engine isn't using oil - don't worry about it.

Thanks.

If the engine isn't using oil, then don't worry about the precat failure?

Do the precat only kill itself if you have an oil problem? And what causes the car to use more oil?

To be fair I have no idea how much oil the car uses as I only just got it. I've heard people say that the 1ZZ uses a lot of oil.


My gut instinct tells me that if the precat was going to fail, it would already have done so in the past 18 years and 112,000 miles, since people have had precat issues since almost day 1 the car was released. But, for peace of mind, I expect I will upgrade to a decat manifold. I have just destroyed one car a couple weeks ago, I don't wish to lose another car yet!

1ZZs don't 'always' use oil.  But they often do.  It depends on how well they've been looked after.  Infrequent oil changes can result in gummed-up oil control rings on the pistons.  Then oil gets past the pistons -into the pre-cats and (after awhile) they start to break up. 

There is another myth that this only applies to pre-face-lift engines.  Not true.  Poorly maintained face-lift engines gum up as well.

Do keep an eye on your oil levels, while you get to know your car.  Change the oil every 5,000 miles max. (I do every 3,000). Or once a year, whichever comes first. Oil is cheap - engine rebuilds aren't.

An older engine with unsure history is a candidate for gummed-up rings - but we've seen well maintained high-mileage engines with no such issues.  Each one must be judged on its own merits.

Many of the things about pre-cats and 'oval bores' out there are oft-repeated myths that have become 'facts' simply by repetition. 

In this club you will get the facts from people who have had a lot of engines apart and who know first-hand, what the deal really is!

If it turns out that your car is using some oil - despair not - many 'oil burners' run on for many miles more!

@treeroy
With ref to your post.
That pretty much covers it.

Whilst new to you. Do keep any eye on any oil usage.

Been a while since I looked but a litre per 621miles (1000km) is deemed in spec as per the manual.

The oil consumption and pre cat failure are invariably down to poor maintenance earlier in its life.

If its not using any. Keep up the regular oil changes and enjoy.

Edit
Despite the time difference.
Cross Post with Carolyn.

Quote from: Carolyn on September  5, 2020, 19:401ZZs don't 'always' use oil.  But they often do.  It depends on how well they've been looked after.  Infrequent oil changes can result in gummed-up oil control rings on the pistons.  Then oil gets past the pistons -into the pre-cats and (after awhile) they start to break up. 

There is another myth that this only applies to pre-face-lift engines.  Not true.  Poorly maintained face-lift engines gum up as well.

Do keep an eye on your oil levels, while you get to know your car.  Change the oil every 5,000 miles max. (I do every 3,000). Or once a year, whichever comes first. Oil is cheap - engine rebuilds aren't.

An older engine with unsure history is a candidate for gummed-up rings - but we've seen well maintained high-mileage engines with no such issues.  Each one must be judged on its own merits.

Many of the things about pre-cats and 'oval bores' out there are oft-repeated myths that have become 'facts' simply by repetition. 

In this club you will get the facts from people who have had a lot of engines apart and who know first-hand, what the deal really is!

If it turns out that your car is using some oil - despair not - many 'oil burners' run on for many miles more!

Thanks for the info as to the cause of the precat failure.

Guess I should get an oil change done then so I know where I stand. The car has no service history. No service book and no manual, so unsure of oil change intervals. Is 5,000 miles the Toyota recommendation for oil change? Seems like a lot.

Toyota is, I believe longer.  Toyota aren't allways right :)

An oil change is always a smart move.

Easy to do and cheap.
A filter and a 4 litre tub. A 5/30 full synthetic of choice will see you right.
You only need 3.7l.
Start there and monitor.

I agree with you in principle, if its got this far. Its likely to have been looked after.

Re oil consumption - it's worth a read of page 168 of the owner's manual. Suggests that usage of up to 1 litre per 1000 km (621 miles) is 'normal' and to check the oil level each time you refuel.

Bearing in mind that we all know what a PITA it is to read the dipstick, I found it amusing that this also gives reasons why the level it shows might be inaccurate!

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 12:05Re oil consumption - it's worth a read of page 168 of the owner's manual. Suggests that usage of up to 1 litre per 1000 km (621 miles) is 'normal' and to check the oil level each time you refuel.

As per my post #7, glad you confirmed it, as I was only going from memory.

Quote from: Ardent on September  7, 2020, 12:16

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 12:05Re oil consumption - it's worth a read of page 168 of the owner's manual. Suggests that usage of up to 1 litre per 1000 km (621 miles) is 'normal' and to check the oil level each time you refuel.

As per my post #7, glad you confirmed it, as I was only going from memory.

Remember to return the dipstick the correct way up ;)

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 12:05Re oil consumption - it's worth a read of page 168 of the owner's manual. Suggests that usage of up to 1 litre per 1000 km (621 miles) is 'normal' and to check the oil level each time you refuel.

Bearing in mind that we all know what a PITA it is to read the dipstick, I found it amusing that this also gives reasons why the level it shows might be inaccurate!

Thanks. That's quite heavy oil usage.

I haven't got a manual for the car so can't look up the oil change intervals.

Quote from: treeroy on September  7, 2020, 16:15

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 12:05Re oil consumption - it's worth a read of page 168 of the owner's manual. Suggests that usage of up to 1 litre per 1000 km (621 miles) is 'normal' and to check the oil level each time you refuel.

Bearing in mind that we all know what a PITA it is to read the dipstick, I found it amusing that this also gives reasons why the level it shows might be inaccurate!

Thanks. That's quite heavy oil usage.

I haven't got a manual for the car so can't look up the oil change intervals.

You're right - that's an utterly ridiculous level of consumption..  As I recall Toyota says 10,000 km.

Quote from: treeroy on September  7, 2020, 16:15

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 12:05Re oil consumption - it's worth a read of page 168 of the owner's manual. Suggests that usage of up to 1 litre per 1000 km (621 miles) is 'normal' and to check the oil level each time you refuel.

Bearing in mind that we all know what a PITA it is to read the dipstick, I found it amusing that this also gives reasons why the level it shows might be inaccurate!

Thanks. That's quite heavy oil usage.

I haven't got a manual for the car so can't look up the oil change intervals.

You can download a copy of the owner's manual for free here (https://www.toyota.com/owners/resources/warranty-owners-manuals/mr2-spyder/2003) .  Official Toyota site btw - US version but same content no doubt.

Quote from: treeroy on September  7, 2020, 16:15That's quite heavy oil usage.
thats what we think

I haven't got a manual for the car so can't look up the oil change intervals.
many change twice a year. I would say 10k tops.

Quote from: treeroy on September  7, 2020, 16:15

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 12:05Re oil consumption - it's worth a read of page 168 of the owner's manual. Suggests that usage of up to 1 litre per 1000 km (621 miles) is 'normal' and to check the oil level each time you refuel.

Bearing in mind that we all know what a PITA it is to read the dipstick, I found it amusing that this also gives reasons why the level it shows might be inaccurate!

Thanks. That's quite heavy oil usage.

I haven't got a manual for the car so can't look up the oil change intervals.

It would seem that Toyota did make some improvement to reduce potential oil consumption from the PFL to the FL.
My MR2 Owner's manual (PFL (2002) p.155
" A new engine consumes more oil, since its pistons, piston rings and cylinder walls have not been conditioned.
Oil consumption: Max. 1.0L per 1,000km (1.1 qt / 600 miles, 0.9 Imp. qt/ 600 miles ) "
So, a 21 miles / L improvement for the FL!

The ToyotaService and Warranty booklet for 2002 refers to:

1.Full health and safety check every 20,000 miles or 2 years whichever comes first.
2. Intermediate oil and filter service ...... every 10,000 miles or 1 year whichever comes first.

So , a maximum of 10k or one year.

But, this is a general document for the range of Toyota

I change the oil and filter annually but I do a very low mileage.

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 18:01

Quote from: treeroy on September  7, 2020, 16:15

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 12:05Re oil consumption - it's worth a read of page 168 of the owner's manual. Suggests that usage of up to 1 litre per 1000 km (621 miles) is 'normal' and to check the oil level each time you refuel.

Bearing in mind that we all know what a PITA it is to read the dipstick, I found it amusing that this also gives reasons why the level it shows might be inaccurate!

Thanks. That's quite heavy oil usage.

I haven't got a manual for the car so can't look up the oil change intervals.

You can download a copy of the owner's manual for free here (https://www.toyota.com/owners/resources/warranty-owners-manuals/mr2-spyder/2003) .  Official Toyota site btw - US version but same content no doubt.

Thanks for the link. I can't actually see service intervals in the manual though.

If @Joesson above is right, that sounds much more likely, 10,000 miles.

Why do people on this forum recommend 5,000 mile changes?

Quote from: treeroy on September  7, 2020, 21:18

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 18:01

Quote from: treeroy on September  7, 2020, 16:15

Quote from: ManInDandism on September  7, 2020, 12:05Re oil consumption - it's worth a read of page 168 of the owner's manual. Suggests that usage of up to 1 litre per 1000 km (621 miles) is 'normal' and to check the oil level each time you refuel.

Bearing in mind that we all know what a PITA it is to read the dipstick, I found it amusing that this also gives reasons why the level it shows might be inaccurate!

Thanks. That's quite heavy oil usage.

I haven't got a manual for the car so can't look up the oil change intervals.

You can download a copy of the owner's manual for free here (https://www.toyota.com/owners/resources/warranty-owners-manuals/mr2-spyder/2003) .  Official Toyota site btw - US version but same content no doubt.

Thanks for the link. I can't actually see service intervals in the manual though.

If @Joesson above is right, that sounds much more likely, 10,000 miles.

Why do people on this forum recommend 5,000 mile changes?

Service intervals are not in the manual. They are in a separate ( general) document for my car.
I suggest that people on this forum recommend 5,000 mile intervals  because we are aware that the Toyota piston / ring design is not the best and dirty / old oil is unlikely to help that situation.

You can never change too often.

We just love these cars and anything that helps it along the way, such as a 5k oil change.

Not an expensive thing to do.

That said, a lot is going to depend on how you use your 2.

I've never done 10k annually, (I wish)
But it gets changed every year. Regardless of how few I've done.
I enjoy mine, but I don't rag the nuts off it. It's never seen a track. Rarely sees above 5000 rpm, So a good quality 5/40 (fuchs super syn) sees me right.