MR2 Roadster Owners Club

The Workshop => Maintenance, Problems & Troubleshooting => Topic started by: Benlake on October 4, 2020, 09:52

Title: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 4, 2020, 09:52

Looking for some help!
I have some braided hoses to fit but Im a bit stuck getting my old ones off. I have managed to get one loose (the 10mm nut at the metal break line end) using wd and a flared spanner but the spanner keeps slipping on the other ones. Is there a handy trick anyone happens to know?

Thanks
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Carolyn on October 4, 2020, 10:28
By 'flared spanner' do you mean one of these?:

brake pipe spanner s.jpg
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 4, 2020, 10:42
Yep thats the one I just and bought a 9mm one to see if I could a tighter fit but its too small the 10mm feels a little loose, which is why it keeps slipping.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 4, 2020, 10:43
Im thinking drastic measures might be needed  :(
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Carolyn on October 4, 2020, 10:51
3/8" imperial is just a nadger smaller than 10mm -if you can get one.

Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Joesson on October 4, 2020, 10:56
@Carolyn ' s spanner is Imperial , you have Metric, there maybe a slight difference. But, as you are removing the brake hoses and if the " open ended" spanner is not working for you, you could try cutting the hose so that you can use a ring spanner or better still a long reach socket with six points. This will be messy so be prepared to catch the old fluid in a tray.

PS, Carolyn's "try an Imperial spanner" is far less drastic, so try that first!
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 4, 2020, 10:59
Ok thanks I will try the 3/8 spanner first and if that doesn't work it will have get ugly!
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: MRSwede on October 4, 2020, 11:02
If you don't have any plan to reuse it, use a pipe wrench
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Joesson on October 4, 2020, 11:17
Quote from: MRSwede on October  4, 2020, 11:02If you don't have any plan to reuse it, use a pipe wrench

There's ugly , then there's a pipe wrench.😉
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 4, 2020, 12:25
Haha starting to wish Id left them alone :(

I think the little nut might be needed the goodridge hoses only seem to have a thread at the end.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 4, 2020, 12:28
Why couldn't the other 3 nuts be more like my little buddy on passenger side front.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: househead on October 4, 2020, 13:23
Holy thread hijack :)

I have some of these to fit too, and I've asked on here about these clips before but got no answer.

Does anyone have the foggiest what I do with these little things..

(Black plastic clips Shown in the bottom left of the photo, next to the washers)

D9C2970F-A072-432C-886B-354ED09A564B.jpeg

Been stalling on doing this job till I find out what they do
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: MRSwede on October 4, 2020, 14:12
Quote from: Joesson on October  4, 2020, 11:17
Quote from: MRSwede on October  4, 2020, 11:02If you don't have any plan to reuse it, use a pipe wrench

There's ugly , then there's a pipe wrench.😉

Standard equipment in the tool box, if you have this standing beside the MR2  ;D P8230004.JPG
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: barchetta_ms on October 4, 2020, 14:47
I completely fubar'ed my front brake hard lines when doing this - I ended up replacing the hard lines all the way from the ABS unit - not something I want to do when I do the rears. I started with a flared spanner and ended up with a pipe wrench and a knackered nut on the on brake line. I think the age of the car and the fact it had probably never been undone doesn't help.

Watching this with interest to see what other suggestions come up. Is cutting the hard line and putting a new nut on the end and then re-flaring the pipe an option?
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Joesson on October 4, 2020, 14:53
Quote from: househead on October  4, 2020, 13:23Holy thread hijack :)

I have some of these to fit too, and I've asked on here about these clips before but got no answer.

Does anyone have the foggiest what I do with these little things..

(Black plastic clips Shown in the bottom left of the photo, next to the washers)

D9C2970F-A072-432C-886B-354ED09A564B.jpeg

Been stalling on doing this job till I find out what they do

They look like they can be fitted after the hoses are installed. There are 8 of them for 4 hoses , so  2 for each hose. They must be to locate/ limit the movement of the hose relative to some bracket or other.
Someone might now take pity and come up with an experience base answer.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Joesson on October 4, 2020, 14:55
Quote from: MRSwede on October  4, 2020, 14:12
Quote from: Joesson on October  4, 2020, 11:17
Quote from: MRSwede on October  4, 2020, 11:02If you don't have any plan to reuse it, use a pipe wrench

There's ugly , then there's a pipe wrench.😉

Standard equipment in the tool box, if you have this standing beside the MR2  ;D P8230004.JPG

You could have "that" parked over your 2, it would keep the rain off!
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Joesson on October 4, 2020, 15:03
Quote from: barchetta_ms on October  4, 2020, 14:47I completely fubar'ed my front brake hard lines when doing this - I ended up replacing the hard lines all the way from the ABS unit - not something I want to do when I do the rears. I started with a flared spanner and ended up with a pipe wrench and a knackered nut on the on brake line. I think the age of the car and the fact it had probably never been undone doesn't help.

Watching this with interest to see what other suggestions come up. Is cutting the hard line and putting a new nut on the end and then re-flaring the pipe an option?

Re-flaring  a line in situ would be difficult/ impossible, but would also mean that the line would be shorter which may be then difficult to get into the same position.
Some things on our cars are unfortunately due for replacement now  because of TMB.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: househead on October 4, 2020, 15:24
Quote from: Joesson on October  4, 2020, 14:53
Quote from: househead on October  4, 2020, 13:23Holy thread hijack :)

I have some of these to fit too, and I've asked on here about these clips before but got no answer.

Does anyone have the foggiest what I do with these little things..

(Black plastic clips Shown in the bottom left of the photo, next to the washers)

D9C2970F-A072-432C-886B-354ED09A564B.jpeg

Been stalling on doing this job till I find out what they do

They look like they can be fitted after the hoses are installed. There are 8 of them for 4 hoses , so  2 for each hose. They must be to locate/ limit the movement of the hose relative to some bracket or other.
Someone might now take pity and come up with an experience base answer.

That was my hunch too actually. Wasn't sure which bracket to fit them around. Makes sense to not have them moving around in the brackets too much.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 4, 2020, 16:11
If the 3/8 flares spanner won't get it could it carefully be cut with dremmel and pried off - risk might be ending up with a mangled thread. The other risky option I was thinking was blow torch maybe if the line was drained from the caliper end.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: MRSwede on October 4, 2020, 16:15
Quote from: Benlake on October  4, 2020, 16:11If the 3/8 flares spanner won't get it could it carefully be cut with dremmel and pried off - risk might be ending up with a mangled thread. The other risky option I was thinking was blow torch maybe if the line was drained from the caliper end.

Heat Gun ?
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 4, 2020, 16:32
Yeah there is a risk I blow myself and the car up though!
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: gazza1286 on October 4, 2020, 19:17
The nuts on the hard brake lines for cars (particularly Toyotas) of a certain are are problematic. I learned this many years ago.
I now would never use open spanners (including flared spanners) unless I can be certain they will undo. I go straight for locking pliers. This avoids most rounding-over issues. Granted a couple of the flats will be marred but doing this first ensures a solid purchase for the jaws of the pliers.

When I bought my MR2 in 2014 the pipework was in excellent condition being a 2006 car - I therefore undid all four corners then using a flared spanner to avoid future problems. I've repeated this every year or so since to prevent the inevitable should I need or choose to swap out the flexis.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Joesson on October 4, 2020, 19:41
Quote from: househead on October  4, 2020, 15:24
Quote from: Joesson on October  4, 2020, 14:53
Quote from: househead on October  4, 2020, 13:23Holy thread hijack :)

I have some of these to fit too, and I've asked on here about these clips before but got no answer.

Does anyone have the foggiest what I do with these little things..

(Black plastic clips Shown in the bottom left of the photo, next to the washers)

D9C2970F-A072-432C-886B-354ED09A564B.jpeg

Been stalling on doing this job till I find out what they do

They look like they can be fitted after the hoses are installed. There are 8 of them for 4 hoses , so  2 for each hose. They must be to locate/ limit the movement of the hose relative to some bracket or other.
Someone might now take pity and come up with an experience base answer.

That was my hunch too actually. Wasn't sure which bracket to fit them around. Makes sense to not have them moving around in the brackets too much.

Having reviewed the situation, and no other input! maybe the item that these clips locate is the black "bracket" on the hose.
As previously, the clips go around the hose and it may well become intuitive once you offer the hose up to position it.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: AdamR28 on October 4, 2020, 20:05
Yeah I would say they locate the black brackets, and the black brackets are bolted to the damper. Will be obvious once you start the job!
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: househead on October 4, 2020, 22:58
Like this right?

D529061D-BFE7-4456-B9F5-1C6788A9BE1D.jpeg
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Jay on October 5, 2020, 09:10
Quote from: barchetta_ms on October  4, 2020, 14:47I ended up replacing the hard lines all the way from the ABS unit - not something I want to do when I do the rears.

Is cutting the hard line and putting a new nut on the end and then re-flaring the pipe an option?

I haven't even looked near these on my Roadster but the older Starlets I have there's been quite a few similar issues.  I cut the rear hard lines back to a suitable spot, used the cut off sections as templates to make new ones then added a union so as I could replace the affected length of pipe in one piece. 

You need a roll of fresh pipe, brake line cutter, hand held flaring tool, couple of small files, some cable ties and a lot of swear words but it is possible.  Getting the flare right whilst lying under the car is tricky but if it was easy it wouldn't such fun eh?

EDIT: Used this sort of join to connect the new section to the old pipe:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brake-Pipe-Connectors-10mm-x-1mm-2-Way-Inline-Female-Male-Nuts-For-3-16-Pipe/282690272518?hash=item41d1a73d06:g:IAcAAOSwihJZ3hEH

Hope that helps explain it better.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Joesson on October 5, 2020, 10:28
Quote from: househead on October  4, 2020, 22:58Like this right?

D529061D-BFE7-4456-B9F5-1C6788A9BE1D.jpeg

That's as I envisage. Don't fix the clips until the hose and bracket are installed. I believe the clips limit or restrict the movement of the hose through the bracket, relatively straightforward to position on the rear. On the front, of course, the caliper moves with the road wheel so I would turn the wheel lock to lock to see what is happening and fix the clips accordingly.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Joesson on October 5, 2020, 10:47
@Benlake
I do hope you've been making good progress while we've been busy hi jacking!
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Bossworld on October 5, 2020, 11:05
It's not too bad to redo the front lines in kunifer/copper (and I speak as a complete amateur) but you will want one of the decent £30 hand flaring tools rather than the cheap crap bars that come with the kits.

On the other hand, complete lines really weren't that expensive direct from Toyota when I looked, but there was a bit of a wait to get them delivered.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 5, 2020, 17:09
I am eagerly awaiting my 3/8s flared spanner maybe it will come tomorrow, I will try it out. I ve been squirting more wd on them. If it starts rounding Ill stop and get the pipe wrench out.

Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: 1979scotte on October 5, 2020, 21:09
Quote from: Benlake on October  5, 2020, 17:09I am eagerly awaiting my 3/8s flared spanner maybe it will come tomorrow, I will try it out. I ve been squirting more wd on them. If it starts rounding Ill stop and get the pipe wrench out.



WD?

Wouldn't plus gas be better?
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 6, 2020, 10:26
I just bought wd rust penetrating stuff but will try it out - need all the help I can get.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: AdamR28 on October 6, 2020, 10:39
Try a 50:50 mix of acetone and ATF, shaken in a spray bottle to mix, then squirted onto a joint that has been heated with a blowtorch. Sounds daft but Google it - works amazingly well.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Joesson on October 6, 2020, 14:12
Quote from: AdamR28 on October  6, 2020, 10:39Try a 50:50 mix of acetone and ATF, shaken in a spray bottle to mix, then squirted onto a joint that has been heated with a blowtorch. Sounds daft but Google it - works amazingly well.

Just don't forget your PPE.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: AdamR28 on October 6, 2020, 14:51
And toffee apple ;)
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on October 7, 2020, 22:26
Well that didn't go to plan, got the bolt free on the other front pipe but its still somehow stuck to the hose, the rears aren't going anywhere. I think its time for new brake lines the fronts will disconnect ok. Looks like you need to drop the petrol tank to get at the rear union where they attach :(
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on November 3, 2020, 20:42
Well petrol tank is on the garage floor and I have shiny new brake lines finally, this will be a good little lock down project. I didn't fancy doing it myself with the copper ones with it been a track car I'll pay more for peace of mind.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: puma2 on November 4, 2020, 10:17
 :) just for info.
i recenly had a garage do this with other work and they gave me the car back with N/S/Rear to do. they did try but there was no movent and did not want the stuck at his place.

hopefully next week he will be haveing the back car to finish this  off and he has everything ready to even   make a new line as well if needed.

I do no of othes on here who have done this job  and always  find 1 of them is realy hard to do
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on November 4, 2020, 12:13
Yeah it looked so simple two bolts and shiny new hoses! I spent 150 with mr2-ben for all 4 hard lines, Id be interested to know what a garage change for making up new ones?
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: AdamR28 on November 4, 2020, 12:14
Crikey. Think I'd have gone copper tbh, and just route them somewhere out of harm's way.
Title: Re: Brake hose removal
Post by: Benlake on December 13, 2020, 22:36
We managed to fit the new Toyota brake hard lines and finally the goodridge hoses. For anyone interested the procedure for the rears involved removing fuel pump and petrol tank. This allows access to the unions which sit above the tank. Then a fair bit of wiggling and jiggling. The fronts were much more straight forward. At 157 quid for the hard lines as others have said not a very cheap option, but it worked.

Can now start planning some track days for spring :)