The cars just thrown this code -catalyst efficiency below threshold bank 1. The car was pretty hot when it threw this yesterday after some 80 miles driving M25/M11/A11. Not seen this before so what's the cure/solution guys?
Norman
A quick google search
Faulty oxygen sensor
Faulty air-fuel sensor
Worn or internally failing catalytic converter (Most Common)
A leak in the exhaust system
Misfire (the root cause of converter failure)
Rich or Lean air-fuel ratio (the root cause of converter failure)
Leaded Gasoline (the root cause of converter failure)
O2 sensor or Cat isn't it?
@Ardent @shnazzle @Carolyn
There is a thread here that may help;
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=67682.0
Quote from: 1979scotte on December 11, 2020, 15:22O2 sensor or Cat isn't it?
@Ardent
@shnazzle
@Carolyn
Yes it is - nine times out of ten - it's the cat, though the cat is less likely to be at fault when it's hot.
Either way it's a bit of a bugger- 'cos it's a 'replace the part and see what gives' scenario.
The original cats on these are getting long in the tooth and many of us have replaced the original with an aftermarket one from Cats2U. (The oem one costing a first born child and the national debt!)
So it's either £60 for a sensor or £135 for a cat plus crush ring gaskets. If you're unlucky, you end up buying both.
How about go to a friendly MOT station and ask if they can perform a cat emission test on it. The readings will help you make a more informed choice.
If the CO is high and the lambda reading is correct or close enough you know its the cat at fault..
First check the condition of the flexi's. It may that you have a leak on the system. You won't necessarily hear it blowing.
If you have an aftermarket pre cat with no support and a 12year old cat. The flexi's may have failed.
Then sensor checks.
The cat below efficiency is a code that is only tripped when certain parameters are satisfied. I do not know them specifically but it is when the car has enough start and stop cycles and high way conditions where the temps are stabilized. If you reset the code it may not come back immediately and will usually come back on once those conditions are met again which can take a few days if you only do quick trips or will come on once you drive a good while on the highway.
I would reset the ECU and then observe how fast or how slow the CEL is illuminated. If it take a good while then its most certainly the catalyst that has to be replaced.
As far as I know the flexis were in great condition checked them out in the summer.
Reset the code this afternoon and had a brisk drive to get some Cataclean - thats been added to around 23 litres of fuel then drove home about 10 miles in total no repeat light on dash.
Back in September I mistakenly left off the oil filler cap the result was I sprayed just over a litre of very clean synthetic oil all over the engine including the manifold O2 leads could this cause the problem it was a bloody mess lucky its clean oil, could this have caused a bad connection on the cat socket?
Recheck the flexis, Cat Sensor first I guess then? Its not burning excess fuel have done some 230 miles on just half a tank of fuel
Norman
Nothing really to add other than in true ROC fashion. Let's start at the free/cheap end of the diagnosis pathway.
Edit.
If you have an obd dongle and torque Pro, and look for the post cat senor info, that may also give a clue. Go for a drive and record the sensor data.
Is it actually doing anything?
Just looked at the cat prices and we need a type approved cat cost 180 to 280 depending on make Cats2u prices.
Will run the car for a bit and see what happens now, will clean up the plugs and sockets of oil tomorrow if its dry.
Next would be Cat sensor then cat, chances are I might damage the the old sensor removing it so little point try to add to a new cat. What a bugger just as Essex is bordering on Tier 3 I need the fitter son's skills.
Norman
Quote from: normanh on December 11, 2020, 17:18Just looked at the cat prices and we need a type approved cat cost 180 to 280 depending on make Cats2u prices.
Will run the car for a bit and see what happens now, will clean up the plugs and sockets of oil tomorrow if its dry.
Next would be Cat sensor then cat, chances are I might damage the the old sensor removing it so little point try to add to a new cat. What a bugger just as Essex is bordering on Tier 3 I need the fitter son's skills.
Norman
£120: plus you'll need gaskets.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-MR2-ROADSTER-CATALYTIC-CONVERTER-CAT-1-8-VVTi-03-00-02-01-FITTING-KIT/130353313042?fits=Model%3AMR+2&epid=2065675609&hash=item1e59a9b512:g:M8MAAMXQ1PNRZbGg
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-MR2-ROADSTER-CATALYTIC-CONVERTER-CAT-1-8-VVTi-03-00-02-01-FITTING-KIT/130353313042?fits=Model%3AMR+2&epid=2065675609&hash=item1e59a9b512:g:M8MAAMXQ1PNRZbGg
Thats not type approved Caroline and should only be fitted to cars pre Feb 2001 mines later 2001 and comes in at from 180 plus post but includes the bolts and gaskets crush rings for the manifold end and wire cone to the exhaust. I checked with Cats4U earlier.
Norman
Quote from: normanh on December 11, 2020, 18:19https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-MR2-ROADSTER-CATALYTIC-CONVERTER-CAT-1-8-VVTi-03-00-02-01-FITTING-KIT/130353313042?fits=Model%3AMR+2&epid=2065675609&hash=item1e59a9b512:g:M8MAAMXQ1PNRZbGg
Thats not type approved Caroline and should only be fitted to cars pre Feb 2001 mines later 2001 and comes in at from 180 plus post but includes the bolts and gaskets crush rings for the manifold end and wire cone to the exhaust. I checked with Cats4U earlier.
Norman
They are ALL the same, honest. Don't believe all the listings. The 'type approval' is a certificate that comes with it.. many members on here have fitted this item, regardless of model year. No tester ever asks for the certificate.
But so long as you're happy.
ps My name is Carolyn...
Quote from: normanh on December 11, 2020, 18:19https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TOYOTA-MR2-ROADSTER-CATALYTIC-CONVERTER-CAT-1-8-VVTi-03-00-02-01-FITTING-KIT/130353313042?fits=Model%3AMR+2&epid=2065675609&hash=item1e59a9b512:g:M8MAAMXQ1PNRZbGg
Thats not type approved Caroline and should only be fitted to cars pre Feb 2001 mines later 2001 and comes in at from 180 plus post but includes the bolts and gaskets crush rings for the manifold end and wire cone to the exhaust. I checked with Cats4U earlier.
Norman
If it passes MOT Norman which they do why worry?
The £60 saving has just covered the sensor. Win win.
Quote from: mr2garageswindon on December 11, 2020, 15:49How about go to a friendly MOT station and ask if they can perform a cat emission test on it. The readings will help you make a more informed choice.
If the CO is high and the lambda reading is correct or close enough you know its the cat at fault..
You still get high CO (and high HC) if the sensor has failed as the engine runs rich, coats the cat in fuel residue and the cat stops working too... so once you've fixed the O2 sensors, one bottle of cataclean and a good (revvy) run and it might be fine...
https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?topic=64800.msg760204#msg760204
The pre cat lambda sensors look after the fueling the post cat sensor is to monitor how the cat is doing, it is often known at the diagnostic sensor as it checks the cat is doing what it is supposed to.
If the sensor is faulty but the other lambdas and cat are fine the CO should be low enough to pass the MOT.
This would indicate the post cat sensor is faulty.
The MRs didn't have a post cat sensor on them.
I would personally get it checked on an emissions tester (Easy for me as I am an MOT station).
Most likely is a knackered cat but I have also seen just the sensor post cat to fail too.
The cars booked in for next Monday for an emissions test, meanwhile, I ordered a Bluetooth reader, what APP can be recommended?
Driven some 80 miles now and no repeat code.
Norman
Torque pro for android is good for very little outlay.
Whats the one that
@shnazzle likes thats a bit more costly?
+1 on the torque Pro
Think the shnazzle one is something like dash command. (Could be wide of the mark though.)
Quote from: normanh on December 15, 2020, 19:06The cars booked in for next Monday for an emissions test, meanwhile, I ordered a Bluetooth reader, what APP can be recommended?
Driven some 80 miles now and no repeat code.
Norman
Happens. 2 trip logic. Could be 10 miles Could be hundreds. (ask me how I know)
Quote from: 1979scotte on December 15, 2020, 19:21Torque pro for android is good for very little outlay.
Whats the one that @shnazzle likes thats a bit more costly?
You mean ELMScan Toyota?
I only use Torque Pro and ELMScan Toyota.
The latter really only for deeper diagnostics of VVTi and stuff that torque can't read.
Left field solution: If it´s just the sensor, then a distance piece is cheapest.
I have that code on mine, however, mine is de-cat, the eml comes on only after a fare few miles, just get rid of it with torque pro
Rob
I have already cancelled the code Zxrob and it hasnt reappeared after 80 miles.
Norman
Just had the emissions test done this morning and it looks like the cat is on its way out, surprisingly its didnt fail. Results as follows compared to the ones earlier in the year -
test 21/12/20 10/1/20
fast idle CO 0.28 0.03
Fast Idle HC 34 9
lambda 1.001 1.003
Natural idle CO 0.14 0.02
The MOT is due from the 10th Jan and its unlikely I will be doing many miles now with Tier 4 so if the test is a repeat its going to pass as its stands so maybe the urgency is less than I originally thought. Providing CO is below 30 on fast ideal
Norman
Quote from: normanh on December 21, 2020, 12:20Just had the emissions test done this morning and it looks like the cat is on its way out, surprisingly its didnt fail. Results as follows compared to the ones earlier in the year -
test 21/12/20 10/1/20
fast idle CO 0.28 0.03
Fast Idle HC 34 9
lambda 1.001 1.003
Natural idle CO 0.14 0.02
The MOT is due from the 10th Jan and its unlikely I will be doing many miles now with Tier 4 so if the test is a repeat its going to pass as its stands so maybe the urgency is less than I originally thought. Providing CO is below 30 on fast ideal
Norman
What did you do to obtain the values in the new test?
See above m8 those dated 21/12/20 last MOT is dated 10/1/20. Now have the phone reader will try that sometime when its not raining.
Norman
In Sweden when our old Volvos having problem passing MOT cause of high CO, we are overdosing fuel system water remover with good outcome.
Just a thought ;D
Good News Today - MOT Passed no advisories
Emissions today as follows -
Fast Idle
CO 0.26%/Vol
HC 27ppm
Lambda 0.994
Natural Idle
CO 0.31%/Vol
The manic rush id=s now off, will wait for the weather to warm up an then change the cat/sensor.
Norman
Quote from: MRSwede on December 21, 2020, 15:27In Sweden when our old Volvos having problem passing MOT cause of high CO, we are overdosing fuel system water remover with good outcome.
Just a thought ;D
thats good to know. something like isopropanol?
Quote from: jonbill on January 11, 2021, 22:39Quote from: MRSwede on December 21, 2020, 15:27In Sweden when our old Volvos having problem passing MOT cause of high CO, we are overdosing fuel system water remover with good outcome.
Just a thought ;D
thats good to know. something like isopropanol?
Temporarily bypassing the PCV helps as well :)
We have some 10% ethanol already in our fuel adding IPA might be a tad risky - not talking about the beer guys
Norman
Where are you based if you have 10% ethanol?
According to the safety pamphlet containing
Ethanol
Propan-2-ol
4-Metylpentan-2-on
Butanone
Unleaded has/will have 10% bio-ethanol https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/104126/e10-petrol-be-uk-standard-wont-work-1m-older-cars
Was 5% and increased to reduce emissions, compatibility is questionable with older cars. TBH I filled up the other day and never looked at the pump to see whether it was E5 or E10 fuel
Norman
Quote from: normanh on January 12, 2021, 21:16Unleaded has/will have 10% bio-ethanol https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/104126/e10-petrol-be-uk-standard-wont-work-1m-older-cars
Was 5% and increased to reduce emissions, compatibility is questionable with older cars. TBH I filled up the other day and never looked at the pump to see whether it was E5 or E10 fuel
Norman
From the link that Norman provided we can see:
Toyota Motors Group
Toyota:
E10 petrol is cleared for use in all Toyota European petrol models made from January 1998, excluding:
• Avensis 2.0 litre with engine 1AZ-FSE made between July 2000 and October 2008.
• Avensis 2.4 litre with engine 2AZ-FSE made between June 2003 and October 2008.
It would seem on this basis that E10 fuel is compatible with our 2's.
I will wager a coffee it was E5. Not seen an E10 pump yet. but will be dodging them, should I encounter.
I don't think ethanol is that good at mixing fuel and water. Too short to do the job.
I think MRswede is referring to the use of de-icer which is IPA based.
Norman
No not de-icer (spraying on surfaces).
Hard to link to something that seems to be sold mainly in Scandinavian
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