Any discussion concerning the future of the motor car now always points to everything becoming electric, possibly some of you are doing your bit already by driving a Prius or similar.
What then happens to our other cars, the MR2, a classic Ferrari, when the motoring world as we know it is all electric?
If you are into classics, Practical Classics this month are doing a series of tests/comparisons on a number of converted classics ranging from Ferrari 308 to 2CV, conversion costs ranging from £15-25K, range from 40 to 140 miles, performance ranging from exceptional to in keeping with the original.
For me, the pleasure of owning a classic, or future classic is the whole thing, noise, maintaining or improving the engine and so on, running a silent Aston Martin or BSA Gold Star would be horrifying.
Converting something like the MR2 would be nigh on impossible due to lack of space for all of the batteries required, so is it's future in jeopardy?
My best guess is that internal combustion 'classics' will always have a place. The vast majority of vehicles will be electric, as the vast majority of vehicle users aren't into 'classics' anyway.
That would leave a small enough number remaining so as to be of little or no consequence to the environment. Classics will be what they've always been - an expensive hobby for a few nutters like us.
At least, I hope so.
Quote from: Carolyn on February 25, 2021, 10:10My best guess is that internal combustion 'classics' will always have a place. The vast majority of vehicles will be electric, as the vast majority of vehicle users aren't into 'classics' anyway.
That would leave a small enough number remaining so as to be of little or no consequence to the environment. Classics will be what they've always been - an expensive hobby for a few nutters like us.
At least, I hope so.
I agree
What sort of world it would be if you never got to hear the roar of a straight six the rumble of a v8 or the absolute joy of 12 cylinder engines.
People still ride horse, and they're still allowed on the road!
..but like cows, their emissions are unfriendly...
I think that most cars and infrastructure will be zero local emissions-based. This approach will take off through the current tax incentives, and once critical mass is reached and tax is applied again, the current approach for the majority of car purchases of lease/PCP will propagate and sustain it. Legislation will sort out the rest.
For current ICE cars, I can only hope that the UK with its plethora of specialist and small car manufacturers is well suited to maintaining 'classics' but that's going to depend on profitability and desirability.
The positives for the MR2 are that there are a reasonable number about, and the Japanese scene may mean parts are available internationally. They are currently very cheap so could still see large numbers scrapped in the coming decade.
For a tiny manufacturer, Lotus has a large number of specialist and aftermarket support which I feel the MR2 lacks (at least in terms of production numbers).
Quote from: ucb on February 25, 2021, 12:38For a tiny manufacturer, Lotus has a large number of specialist and aftermarket support which I feel the MR2 lacks (at least in terms of production numbers).
The amount people are willing to spend on maintaining a car is generally proportional to the value. Coming from the budget end of the classic Porsche scene it was daft to spend £5k on respraying a 924 when the final car value at best was £5k, but for a £30k 911 is makes more sense. Now prices might have doubled on both of those values.
If you're making bespoke/re-manufactured parts then you either need a huge market or high margins to sustain it. Again same with becoming a service specialist. Unless you're the only one in the country and the car needs specialist knowledge.
Quote from: scm2004red on February 25, 2021, 11:55..but like cows, their emissions are unfriendly...
Not totally if you are a rose grower.
I remember when kids were sent out with a bucket, and a shovel if they were lucky , after the milkman's or green grocer's horse had passed by.
Coal was similarly delivered at one time as was beer from the brewery to local pubs. This stoped relatively recently in London and other Cities.
One brewer started the service again during the recent situation:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/suffolk/5327540.stm
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/15/samuel-smith-brewery-uses-horse-and-cart-to-deliver-beer-to-homes-during-lockdown
Owning a car, at one time, was an aspiration, not so many families had one. Today many families have more than one. Such is progress.
But, it would seem that this one time luxury item, now a tool for getting to work to earn the money to pay for it is generating unthought of and unwanted side effects.
During the day, in normal times, our towns and cities are jammed with slow moving vehicles. At night those vehicles are often parked on the street, not everyone has an off-road parking spot. (NB I believe this is a requirement in at least one Asian country).
So, if and when these oil driven vehicles are replaced with Electric powered vehicles where and how will they be recharged. Not outside the owners house, even if he/ she is fortunate enough to have a space there.
To my mind it is a chicken and egg situation, what comes first? We have electric vehicles, with limited range, we do not have the infra structure to recharge them.
I believe this is work in progress, not so long ago a "British" car maker invested £M's in a new engine production plant, more recently that same manufacturer announced that they would start to offer only electric vehicles.
Lots of ends to join up yet I think. Legislation, as
@ucb suggests, will likely gradually reduce the desirability of owning an oil fuelled vehicle but then again, 10 years ago I bought a new diesel car, because the fuel efficiency and taxation £20 pa meant I would be foolish not to.
Time changes many things.
And as we all know (apart from the decision makers) it wont save the environment..
The pie in the sky thinking is going to put the energy grids in jeopardy. This is what happened to Texas.
Without the proper infrastructure planing or advancing technology into graphene battery tech they are going to impoverish humanity with rolling blackouts or rationing of power.
In my country there are incentives for hybrids and electric cars which are fine but they now have proposals to tax per mile carbon producing cars. They are not going to give any quarter for the vintage aficionados that want to keep these older cars longer and the rest of the world we be on a Japanese model of making it expensive to own older cars. Maybe they will have electric conversions but I see a world where they will have buy backs that goes to buying a new electric cars.
When they go full tilt don't expect something like a Tesla D or some sporty electric car, they will make sure it will be slow to get the most out of any wasted power consumption for range so it doesn't tax the grid.
In order to build the infrastructure it is an enormous undertaking financially and I think they know this but what they will do first is demonize anything that uses more resources including red meat.
Enjoy what you have for now until the public at large are radicalized to look at you with disgust for harming the environment.
Quote from: Dev on February 25, 2021, 15:14The pie in the sky thinking is going to put the energy grids in jeopardy. This is what happened to Texas.
Without the proper infrastructure planing or advancing technology into graphene battery tech they are going to impoverish humanity with rolling blackouts or rationing of power.
In my country there are incentives for hybrids and electric cars which are fine but they now have proposals to tax per mile carbon producing cars. They are not going to give any quarter for the vintage aficionados that want to keep these older cars longer and the rest of the world we be on a Japanese model of making it expensive to own older cars. Maybe they will have electric conversions but I see a world where they will have buy backs that goes to buying a new electric cars.
When they go full tilt don't expect something like a Tesla D or some sporty electric car, they will make sure it will be slow to get the most out of any wasted power consumption for range so it doesn't tax the grid.
In order to build the infrastructure it is an enormous undertaking financially and I think they know this but what they will do first is demonize anything that uses more resources including red meat.
Enjoy what you have for now until the public at large are radicalized to look at you with disgust for harming the environment.
Perhaps it's the correct attitude.
Perhaps it's what is needed.
I don't know I'm no expert.
What I do know is that if China, USA, Russia, India and Japan don't get in on the act it won't matter.
We've all got to pull together.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 25, 2021, 10:14What sort of world it would be if you never got to hear the roar of a straight six the rumble of a v8 or the absolute joy of 12 cylinder engines.
Ah well, you wíll get a cool optional sound track of those engines piped in through the hifi entertainment kit.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 25, 2021, 16:02Quote from: Dev on February 25, 2021, 15:14The pie in the sky thinking is going to put the energy grids in jeopardy. This is what happened to Texas.
Without the proper infrastructure planing or advancing technology into graphene battery tech they are going to impoverish humanity with rolling blackouts or rationing of power.
In my country there are incentives for hybrids and electric cars which are fine but they now have proposals to tax per mile carbon producing cars. They are not going to give any quarter for the vintage aficionados that want to keep these older cars longer and the rest of the world we be on a Japanese model of making it expensive to own older cars. Maybe they will have electric conversions but I see a world where they will have buy backs that goes to buying a new electric cars.
When they go full tilt don't expect something like a Tesla D or some sporty electric car, they will make sure it will be slow to get the most out of any wasted power consumption for range so it doesn't tax the grid.
In order to build the infrastructure it is an enormous undertaking financially and I think they know this but what they will do first is demonize anything that uses more resources including red meat.
Enjoy what you have for now until the public at large are radicalized to look at you with disgust for harming the environment.
Perhaps it's the correct attitude.
Perhaps it's what is needed.
I don't know I'm no expert.
What I do know is that if China, USA, Russia, India and Japan don't get in on the act it won't matter.
We've all got to pull together.
It would be nihilistic suicide. Im all for clean power and there should have been a Manhattan like project where all of our institution devoted to finding a solution but they are not doing that. They seem to have all the answers that never come to pass like peak oil, global cooling, global warming and so forth but they seem to keep calling it something else every 20 years saying we are on borrowed time and when it doesn't come they keep moving the goal posts.
What they want to do is tax and cut off resources. Set up commodity markets for carbon credits to be traded like derivatives so the wealthy get rich. India, China and most of Africa will never commit simply because it would impoverish the poor and cause world wide famine.
Oil and what is derived from it is not just for fuel its also in everything we make from all kinds of plastic and other materials that sustain the modern world. Without a plan it will cause suffering and death for those people who have moved to what was once inhibitable areas. Many places in the worlds infrastructure is dependent on fossil fuel to move life saving goods and services.
We can slice it up a million ways but its really not about all of these measure, its about population control for sustainable living. That lady with the baby car seat in her hybrid is far more dangerous to the earth than the guy with the Hummer.
Yes population levels are the issue that will be the problem, more people mean more of everything is needed, and what when there is not enough of whatever to go around..
Quote from: Petrus on February 25, 2021, 16:03Quote from: 1979scotte on February 25, 2021, 10:14What sort of world it would be if you never got to hear the roar of a straight six the rumble of a v8 or the absolute joy of 12 cylinder engines.
Ah well, you wíll get a cool optional sound track of those engines piped in through the hifi entertainment kit.
I f ing hate that.
Just maybe the pandemic will focus some minds that matter. We were caught with our trousers around our ankles with that, there was some talk of a potential pandemic but seemingly little or no preparation.
Hopefully science has now found a way to ease the immediate and will necessarily be an on going process in future.
But the root cause of the problems that affect people as @ Dev suggests is the ever increasing number of us.
Quote from: Joesson on February 25, 2021, 20:58But the root cause of the problems that affect people as @ Dev suggests is the ever increasing number of us.
Fear not, that is being addressed.
The UK plans are to stop ICE cars in 2035, with a 15 year average life that means most are off the road at 2050. Thats our Net Zero date. "Net" is important as it offers some wriggle room. I'd hate us to lose history through a lack of petrol, or even coal for vintage locos and traction engines. (dont worry i am not a steam fan!)
By 2050 i might have a different view, old age might have stopped me getting into an MR2 elegantly anyway but future generations should still be able to embrace our "old" transport solutions as hobbies.
Early petrol sales were from the hardware store -perhaps the future is "two gallons of unleaded and a 10mm socket please"
I have a cunning plan...
I have three lady friends. All three buy lottery tickets and if they win a big one will buy me a Yaris GR.
One to drive daily, two to store for later use. That will see me over :))
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 25, 2021, 18:32Quote from: Petrus on February 25, 2021, 16:03Quote from: 1979scotte on February 25, 2021, 10:14What sort of world it would be if you never got to hear the roar of a straight six the rumble of a v8 or the absolute joy of 12 cylinder engines.
Ah well, you wíll get a cool optional sound track of those engines piped in through the hifi entertainment kit.
I f ing hate that.
Some cars already have artificial engine sounds. VW soundaktor, Ford Active Noise Control, BMW Active Sound Design, and others. Very annoying. Most countries require warning sound generators for electric cars.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on February 26, 2021, 11:35Most countries require warning sound generators for electric cars.
Below 30 or 50 km/h so pedestrians can hear them coming.
Never quite know whether to laugh or cry.
There is a wind turbine near me. Huge thing. Can be seen for miles.
We had some wind this week. 14 - 20. As I drove past, guess what was it doing. Correct. Nothing. Completely static.
No doubt consuming power to either keep it static or run the systems at least.
As Terry Wogan used to say. Is it me?
Unlike my 158,500 mile 16 year old planet saving hybrid. (on which everything still works.) As it was on a decline past the static turbine, the RX was generating more KW than the turbine and not burning any juice.
Better to extend the life of what we have than dig up, process and manufacture something new. Just a thought.
One caveat. No money in that. Silly me.
Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 17:57Unlike my 158,500 mile 16 year old planet saving hybrid. (on which everything still works.) As it was on a decline past the static turbine, the RX was generating more KW than the turbine and not burning any juice.
Better to extend the life of what we have than dig up, process and manufacture something new. Just a thought.
One caveat. No money in that. Silly me.
Whenever I get into a debate with a person who wants to be a green vegan I use this argument and the population one. It throws them into a cognitive dissonance loop they cant get out of.
People who are so called environmentally enlightened because they read authoritative talking points are some of the most unwitting hypocrites damaging the environment. They don't understand the concept of conservation because it will never be brought up by people that preaches their dogmatic extreme world view.
There is a lot more green in repurposing quality engineering products that has serviceable parts. Keeping things longer with less conspicuous consumption is far more green than manufacturing new cheap items that end up as litter or there is very little return in savings over the period of ownership by buying the new part. When they talk about how their country is not green enough they don't realize they offset all of this polluting carbon from buying products made in Asian countries with a slave labor workforce that don't care about being held to the same standard. They are the same people that have to have the latest iPhone or MacBook. They also need to buy the latest hybrid car not realizing the implications of toxic battery disposal.
The world would be filled with far less pollution and greenhouse emissions if they made quality products that are reliable and serviceable that can be retrofitting with efficiency in mind. They would rather tell you to take a cold shower and other extreme measures that are not sustainable.
The last I read those wind turbines have some negative environmental consequences that was not previously known.
Quote from: Dev on February 26, 2021, 19:08The last I read those wind turbines have some negative environmental consequences that was not previously known.
Their combined efect adds up to the earthwinds changing the rotational speed of the crust with the iron core lagging, affecting the magnetic field leading to the sun changing the earth into a giant microwave zapping our brains over time.
More directly they clobber the brains of passing birds...
In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
While your daily is functioning as Mr T intended and you are not having to spend wine tokens on upkeep I suggest that you are fulfilling your part in " Saving the environment" by doing so.
Investment in an "upgrade" would not be extracting the maximum useful life from what you already have and it would be less than frugal to change.
Any " spare" wine tokens could be used on some Hi Vis reflective stickers around the periphery of your vehicle to lift it from the apparent Stealth Mode it seems (to Ninja cyclists and others) to operate in.
Excellent suggestion. I did wonder if the next ought to be a custard. To assist others in seeing it. Completely invisible to 3 others yesterday alone.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
Don't think the culd de sac is big enough to accommodate it.
Hmm. Lot of car for little money.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102189219843?atmobcid=soc3
Gs450h would do me. Do like them.
Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 12:17Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
Don't think the culd de sac is big enough to accommodate it.
Hmm. Lot of car for little money.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102189219843?atmobcid=soc3
Gs450h would do me. Do like them.
Too big?
C 350 E sport hybrid pretty quick and zero tax.
Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 12:17Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
Don't think the culd de sac is big enough to accommodate it.
Hmm. Lot of car for little money.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102189219843?atmobcid=soc3
Gs450h would do me. Do like them.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
This car and its variants are the most reliable cars ever made next to the Toyota Land Cruiser.
The build quality, workmanship and just about every aspect of this car is solid. The unique thing about a car like this in its class is, it still has a proven dipstick, normal water pump and alternator. The hybrid version might be a more expensive if the batteries go out but the parts are very reasonable but it often times requires nothing. There is a five star hotel in New York City that used these for taxi service and on some of them they logged close to 300k harsh city miles before retiring them from their fleet and selling them used with only normal service and fluid changes.
Cars should be made this way if there is any hope unlike my two year old refrigerator that claims energy efficiency but now the ice maker stopped working which is a known issue. Instead of fixing the ice maker they are replacing the whole door.
Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 15:37Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 12:17Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
Don't think the culd de sac is big enough to accommodate it.
Hmm. Lot of car for little money.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102189219843?atmobcid=soc3
Gs450h would do me. Do like them.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
This car and its variants are the most reliable cars ever made next to the Toyota Land Cruiser.
The build quality, workmanship and just about every aspect of this car is solid. The unique thing about a car like this in its class is, it still has a proven dipstick, normal water pump and alternator. The hybrid version might be a more expensive if the batteries go out but the parts are very reasonable but it often times requires nothing. There is a five star hotel in New York City that used these for taxi service and on some of them they logged close to 300k harsh city miles before retiring them from their fleet and selling them used with only normal service and fluid changes.
Cars should be made this way if there is any hope unlike my two year old refrigerator that claims energy efficiency but now the ice maker stopped working which is a known issue. Instead of fixing the ice maker they are replacing the whole door.
The hybrid is actually supposed to be the worst of the range lol.
I belive they had to bring back the 460? Because people wanted a proper V8.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 16:25Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 15:37Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 12:17Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
Don't think the culd de sac is big enough to accommodate it.
Hmm. Lot of car for little money.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102189219843?atmobcid=soc3
Gs450h would do me. Do like them.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
This car and its variants are the most reliable cars ever made next to the Toyota Land Cruiser.
The build quality, workmanship and just about every aspect of this car is solid. The unique thing about a car like this in its class is, it still has a proven dipstick, normal water pump and alternator. The hybrid version might be a more expensive if the batteries go out but the parts are very reasonable but it often times requires nothing. There is a five star hotel in New York City that used these for taxi service and on some of them they logged close to 300k harsh city miles before retiring them from their fleet and selling them used with only normal service and fluid changes.
Cars should be made this way if there is any hope unlike my two year old refrigerator that claims energy efficiency but now the ice maker stopped working which is a known issue. Instead of fixing the ice maker they are replacing the whole door.
The hybrid is actually supposed to be the worst of the range lol.
I belive they had to bring back the 460? Because people wanted a proper V8.
If Im not mistaken for a different market the Ls600H is a 5.0L V8. They were sold alongside the LS460 in both regular and long wheel base versions.
The Hybrid in that car is remarkable and its not just for fuel efficiency which also impressive considering its weight but its main use for the hybrid is torque filling smoothness like the Mclaren hybrid. V12 luxury cars are not premium for just its power, its premium for its quality of power which is linear.
What the 600H does is supplement the electric motor for power and to flatten the torque for smooth acceleration.
The entire team that builds this car are are the best workers from Toyota motor city. They may have started out on a Yaris but because of their talent and dedication to quality have moved up the ranks and end up at this special facility that makes these cars. The way they are built is surprise inspections tests for each worker kind of like a military operation to ensure the highest quality. Even though this engine is used in other applications they are a little bit better built from the foundry where they are cast and also CT scanned to check for voids. Everything about this car was made to be the best car Toyota could produce apart from the LFA.
The car that replaced it unfortunately is a V6 turbo that is more powerful but the V8 was ditched meet better efficiency standards however it will never replace the smoothness of a V8.
Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 17:21Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 16:25Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 15:37Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 12:17Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
Don't think the culd de sac is big enough to accommodate it.
Hmm. Lot of car for little money.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102189219843?atmobcid=soc3
Gs450h would do me. Do like them.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
This car and its variants are the most reliable cars ever made next to the Toyota Land Cruiser.
The build quality, workmanship and just about every aspect of this car is solid. The unique thing about a car like this in its class is, it still has a proven dipstick, normal water pump and alternator. The hybrid version might be a more expensive if the batteries go out but the parts are very reasonable but it often times requires nothing. There is a five star hotel in New York City that used these for taxi service and on some of them they logged close to 300k harsh city miles before retiring them from their fleet and selling them used with only normal service and fluid changes.
Cars should be made this way if there is any hope unlike my two year old refrigerator that claims energy efficiency but now the ice maker stopped working which is a known issue. Instead of fixing the ice maker they are replacing the whole door.
The hybrid is actually supposed to be the worst of the range lol.
I belive they had to bring back the 460? Because people wanted a proper V8.
If Im not mistaken for a different market the Ls600H is a 5.0L V8. They were sold alongside the LS460 in both regular and long wheel base versions.
The Hybrid in that car is remarkable and its not just for fuel efficacy which also impressive considering its weight but its main use for the hybrid is torque filling smoothness like the Mclaren hybrid. V12 luxury cars are not premium for just its power, its premium for its quality of power which is linear.
What the 600H does is supplement the electric motor for power and to flatten the torque for smooth acceleration.
The entire team that builds this car are are the best workers from Toyota motor city. They may have started out on a Yaris but because of their talent and dedication to quality have moved up the ranks and end up at this special facility that makes these cars. The way they are built is surprise inspections tests for each worker kind of like a military operation to ensure the highest quality. Even though this engine is used in other applications they are a little bit better built from the foundry where they are cast and also CT scanned to check for voids. Everything about this car was made to be the best car Toyota could produce apart from the LFA.
The car that replaced it unfortunately is a V6 turbo that is more powerful but the V8 was ditched meet better efficiency standards however it will never replace the smoothness of a V8.
I'm not questioning the build quality but the British motoring press felt it was not a great car preferring the usual German suspects.
I think we all know in Europe that we are seeing the end of anything over 6 cylinders in the next few years. 😔
Referring back to my gen2 prius with 1.5 ICE.
As mentioned many times before over various threads.
The vast majority of people do not understand or comprehend what torque is available if you ask for it properly.
400nm. Such a giggle when you launch it.
But most owners probably never knew it was there.
Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 17:49Referring back to my gen2 prius with 1.5 ICE.
As mentioned many times before over various threads.
The vast majority of people do not understand or comprehend what torque is available if you ask for it properly.
400nm. Such a giggle when you launch it.
But most owners probably never knew it was there.
Pretty sure my 2 makes around that.
Obviously not from a standing start but then it weighs over 100kg less
That's the giggle. All of it, on tap, instantly from 0.
And married to the cvt the delivery is linear.
Same with Alexa.
Much heavier. But has 2 electric motors.
I must be saving the planet twice as much as I thought.
Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 18:05Same with Alexa.
Much heavier. But has 2 electric motors.
I must be saving the planet twice as much as I thought.
Of course you are.
You and your 2040kg SUV. 😉
I'll let you off because you like myself aren't exacerbating the problem by having sprogs.
Do you look things up individually or have some database with each n every vehicle weight?
Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 18:10Do you look things up individually or have some database with each n every vehicle weight?
Some I know others I look up.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 17:38Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 17:21Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 16:25Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 15:37Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 12:17Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
Don't think the culd de sac is big enough to accommodate it.
Hmm. Lot of car for little money.
http://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102189219843?atmobcid=soc3
Gs450h would do me. Do like them.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 07:24Quote from: Ardent on February 26, 2021, 23:14In terms of the daily. Although every electrical item works. Like our beloved 2s, the front shocks may/would benefit from a refresh. As an out and out, save the planet chap that I am. I wonder, should I just replace the shocks at £200 a corner fitted, and continue to use a perfectly good serviceable vehicle. Or, should I spunk many thousands of pounds to upgrade(?) to the newer model, even though the hybrid batteries Mr T came up with; work as well today, as they ever did. Hmmm?
Get an LS600H
This car and its variants are the most reliable cars ever made next to the Toyota Land Cruiser.
The build quality, workmanship and just about every aspect of this car is solid. The unique thing about a car like this in its class is, it still has a proven dipstick, normal water pump and alternator. The hybrid version might be a more expensive if the batteries go out but the parts are very reasonable but it often times requires nothing. There is a five star hotel in New York City that used these for taxi service and on some of them they logged close to 300k harsh city miles before retiring them from their fleet and selling them used with only normal service and fluid changes.
Cars should be made this way if there is any hope unlike my two year old refrigerator that claims energy efficiency but now the ice maker stopped working which is a known issue. Instead of fixing the ice maker they are replacing the whole door.
The hybrid is actually supposed to be the worst of the range lol.
I belive they had to bring back the 460? Because people wanted a proper V8.
If Im not mistaken for a different market the Ls600H is a 5.0L V8. They were sold alongside the LS460 in both regular and long wheel base versions.
The Hybrid in that car is remarkable and its not just for fuel efficacy which also impressive considering its weight but its main use for the hybrid is torque filling smoothness like the Mclaren hybrid. V12 luxury cars are not premium for just its power, its premium for its quality of power which is linear.
What the 600H does is supplement the electric motor for power and to flatten the torque for smooth acceleration.
The entire team that builds this car are are the best workers from Toyota motor city. They may have started out on a Yaris but because of their talent and dedication to quality have moved up the ranks and end up at this special facility that makes these cars. The way they are built is surprise inspections tests for each worker kind of like a military operation to ensure the highest quality. Even though this engine is used in other applications they are a little bit better built from the foundry where they are cast and also CT scanned to check for voids. Everything about this car was made to be the best car Toyota could produce apart from the LFA.
The car that replaced it unfortunately is a V6 turbo that is more powerful but the V8 was ditched meet better efficiency standards however it will never replace the smoothness of a V8.
I'm not questioning the build quality but the British motoring press felt it was not a great car preferring the usual German suspects.
I think we all know in Europe that we are seeing the end of anything over 6 cylinders in the next few years. 😔
I know you are not questioning the build quality but I thought I should mention what makes it a special car over its competitors. The press often looks at features, sophisticated state of the art, sportiness and heritage when new then actual practicality and longevity as an owner. They also have a Asian bias when it comes to top shelf and some of it is justified but not for the 600h.
The German cars in my country sell well but they have the highest depreciation of any car and in some cases are totaled because it cost so much more to repair that it's better to start over so they end up in salvage for minor things. No one wants to touch them but some are attracted to the very low price used but end up in a large financial hole trying to repair it.
Over here it is better to lease a German car than to own it.
Where the Lexus shows its value is a common man can buy a used one and afford to keep it for a long time trouble free however in regards to Lexus luxury people tend to prefer the sports of the S class which is not what the 600h is about. The Lexus is true old mans luxury car which is soft and made to be more like a town car. The younger journalists tend to gravitate towards performance in regards to horsepower and handling for cars that just too heavy. A focused luxury car is what is missing in todays market.
I have no idea how a GS450h "handles" certainly not in the context of an MR2 forum. But I still have a yearning to own one. Might not be for long. But just to say I've had one. Seem to cover both the luxury and semi sporty. It is certainly no slouch. Sub 6 0-60 and a limited 155.
Being the torque junkie I am. That engine and a shed full of electric torque. Pass the kleenex.
Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 20:03I have no idea how a GS450h "handles" certainly not in the context of an MR2 forum. But I still have a yearning to own one. Might not be for long. But just to say I've had one. Seem to cover both the luxury and semi sporty. It is certainly no slouch. Sub 6 0-60 and a limited 155.
Being the torque junkie I am. That engine and a shed full of electric torque. Pass the kleenex.
I have driven one. It handles horribly. The reason for this is its extra long wheel base which is meant for a luxury ride. The power delivery is smooth but more like a 747 at take off because it uses a CVT transmission. It is completely luxury focused like a Rolls Royce or an old Cadillac. Nothing at all like a new S class or BMW 7 series which are more sports luxury which are often times a compromised car.
What is the difference. One is a driver focused car and the other drives you and your passengers with the least amount of road fatigue. The interior is isolated from the outside that any little noise you make is like shouting.
Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 20:58Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 20:03I have no idea how a GS450h "handles" certainly not in the context of an MR2 forum. But I still have a yearning to own one. Might not be for long. But just to say I've had one. Seem to cover both the luxury and semi sporty. It is certainly no slouch. Sub 6 0-60 and a limited 155.
Being the torque junkie I am. That engine and a shed full of electric torque. Pass the kleenex.
I have driven one. It handles horribly. The reason for this is its extra long wheel base which is meant for a luxury ride. The power delivery is smooth but more like a 747 at take off because it uses a CVT transmission. It is completely luxury focused like a Rolls Royce or an old Cadillac. Nothing at all like a new S class or BMW 7 series which are more sports luxury which are often times a compromised car.
What is the difference. One is a driver focused car and the other drives you and your passengers with the least amount of road fatigue. The interior is isolated from the outside that any little noise you make is like shouting.
I've always wanted a CL Mercedes.
My dad had a CL 500 but it's the V12 bi turbo that's always floated my boat far more than the proper AMG versions. Sorry 2zz lover's but torque really is king.
Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 20:58Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 20:03I have no idea how a GS450h "handles" certainly not in the context of an MR2 forum. But I still have a yearning to own one. Might not be for long. But just to say I've had one. Seem to cover both the luxury and semi sporty. It is certainly no slouch. Sub 6 0-60 and a limited 155.
Being the torque junkie I am. That engine and a shed full of electric torque. Pass the kleenex.
I have driven one. It handles horribly. The reason for this is its extra long wheel base which is meant for a luxury ride. The power delivery is smooth but more like a 747 at take off because it uses a CVT transmission. It is completely luxury focused like a Rolls Royce or an old Cadillac. Nothing at all like a new S class or BMW 7 series which are more sports luxury which are often times a compromised car.
What is the difference. One is a driver focused car and the other drives you and your passengers with the least amount of road fatigue. The interior is isolated from the outside that any little noise you make is like shouting.
Forget the handling side of things then.
The remaining aspects still appeal.
Quote from: 1979scotte on February 27, 2021, 22:22Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 20:58Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 20:03I have no idea how a GS450h "handles" certainly not in the context of an MR2 forum. But I still have a yearning to own one. Might not be for long. But just to say I've had one. Seem to cover both the luxury and semi sporty. It is certainly no slouch. Sub 6 0-60 and a limited 155.
Being the torque junkie I am. That engine and a shed full of electric torque. Pass the kleenex.
I have driven one. It handles horribly. The reason for this is its extra long wheel base which is meant for a luxury ride. The power delivery is smooth but more like a 747 at take off because it uses a CVT transmission. It is completely luxury focused like a Rolls Royce or an old Cadillac. Nothing at all like a new S class or BMW 7 series which are more sports luxury which are often times a compromised car.
What is the difference. One is a driver focused car and the other drives you and your passengers with the least amount of road fatigue. The interior is isolated from the outside that any little noise you make is like shouting.
I've always wanted a CL Mercedes.
My dad had a CL 500 but it's the V12 bi turbo that's always floated my boat far more than the proper AMG versions. Sorry 2zz lover's but torque really is king.
From what I was told the CL is top dog and better class than the S. An old classmate had a CL V12 I don't know which one because he lives in Florida. He told me it was so powerful that he swapped ends.
Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 23:11Quote from: Dev on February 27, 2021, 20:58Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 20:03I have no idea how a GS450h "handles" certainly not in the context of an MR2 forum. But I still have a yearning to own one. Might not be for long. But just to say I've had one. Seem to cover both the luxury and semi sporty. It is certainly no slouch. Sub 6 0-60 and a limited 155.
Being the torque junkie I am. That engine and a shed full of electric torque. Pass the kleenex.
I have driven one. It handles horribly. The reason for this is its extra long wheel base which is meant for a luxury ride. The power delivery is smooth but more like a 747 at take off because it uses a CVT transmission. It is completely luxury focused like a Rolls Royce or an old Cadillac. Nothing at all like a new S class or BMW 7 series which are more sports luxury which are often times a compromised car.
What is the difference. One is a driver focused car and the other drives you and your passengers with the least amount of road fatigue. The interior is isolated from the outside that any little noise you make is like shouting.
Forget the handling side of things then.
The remaining aspects still appeal.
What really bugs me is when you pay so much money for a luxury car they cut corners and they tend to be unreliable. Initially I was impressed with a previous BMW 5 series but as time went on the interior plastics started to wear and the car had too many issues. What I found in the Lexus is quality workmanship and parts. The wood they use comes from the Yamaha instrument division and the doors are suppose to close like some ancient Japanese wooden doors. They have moved away from trying to imitate Europeans and embrace their cultural heritage.
Toyota needs to sell the Century world wide but they don't and I think it has to do with another level of prestige reserved for Japanese CEOs and royalty.
Its also a Hybrid
Quote from: Ardent on February 27, 2021, 20:03I have no idea how a GS450h "handles" certainly not in the context of an MR2 forum. But I still have a yearning to own one. Might not be for long. But just to say I've had one. Seem to cover both the luxury and semi sporty. It is certainly no slouch. Sub 6 0-60 and a limited 155.
Being the torque junkie I am. That engine and a shed full of electric torque. Pass the kleenex.
Sorry I thought you meant the 600h. I have not driven the GS450h but I hear its a good car overall and will handle much better than the LS line of automobiles. It is more in line with an E class or five series.