Hi all, I'm contemplating swapping my stock manifold for a straight through pipe type without cats. Toyosports sounded good but are unavailable. Has anyone got any preferences for the offerings on ebay, such as the "Gravity" one?
You have a late car I would just keep the stock setup, The stock system with tte sounds just right.
I have the gravity one. No issues to report and been on about 6 months now.
Decent company to deal with aswell.
Thanks, did you notice any change to the exhaust sound/performance with the Gravity manifold? Also what made you go for the gravity rather than decatting the original please?
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 16, 2021, 20:00Thanks, did you notice any change to the exhaust sound/performance with the Gravity manifold? Also what made you go for the gravity rather than decatting the original please?
Decating the original is a PITA.
Why expose yourself to all that nasty crap inside?
Then have these hollow chambers to spoil the flow?
Its something people did years back.
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 16, 2021, 20:00Thanks, did you notice any change to the exhaust sound/performance with the Gravity manifold? Also what made you go for the gravity rather than decatting the original please?
Yes gave it a bit more sound (burble is a good word) and releases a touch of power in the low to mid range.
As Scotte has mentioned decatting the original is not a good option. Will actually hurt performance and not to mention its a messy job.
The gravity manifolds come on offer now and again, i got mine for about £140 so well worth changing it for a stainless one.
At the time when a few people were buying the Zero manifold, the maker of them said that modifying the o/e one was bound to be detrimental to flow.
Or keep the stock one. A big dump and a haircut will gain you more performance.
I decatted the OE exhaust on my 2 in 2011, it got me under the car to have a good look around, important in itself, I polished the heat shields on the main cat and replaced the broken welds with stainless machine screws and nuts and refixed the broken weld near the Flexis with proprietary exhaust clamps. I wore a 3m mask and eye protection when bashing out the precast and finished off with a pressure washer.
No requirement for lagging the pipes the OE manifold heat shield was painted and replaced.
Ten years later, no cat rattles, no noticeable gain or loss in performance, the heat shield paint is still good, the cost was for replacement gaskets which are necessary with aftermarket manifolds. So perhaps I am £140 in pocket.
A supplier of an aftermarket bolt on is hardly likely to advocate keeping what is OE.
Historically that was the thing to do. However time changes many things, particularly opinions, but not mine.
One of the deciding factors for a lot of people currently is the standard manifold while intact carries at least half the cost of a replacement s/s tubular manifold in scrap value.
Whereas I, like many other people just bashed mine out a few years ago and responsibly binned the contents 😆
Quote from: Call the midlife! on July 17, 2021, 08:37One of the deciding factors for a lot of people currently is the standard manifold while intact carries at least half the cost of a replacement s/s tubular manifold in scrap value.
Whereas I, like many other people just bashed mine out a few years ago and responsibly binned the contents 😆
Good point, worth investigating the value at the local scrap yard before I decide what to do. I did the same as you years ago 🙄.
Quote from: Joesson on July 16, 2021, 21:53I decatted the OE exhaust on my 2 in 2011, it got me under the car to have a good look around, important in itself, I polished the heat shields on the main cat and replaced the broken welds with stainless machine screws and nuts and refixed the broken weld near the Flexis with proprietary exhaust clamps. I wore a 3m mask and eye protection when bashing out the precast and finished off with a pressure washer.
No requirement for lagging the pipes the OE manifold heat shield was painted and replaced.
Ten years later, no cat rattles, no noticeable gain or loss in performance, the heat shield paint is still good, the cost was for replacement gaskets which are necessary with aftermarket manifolds. So perhaps I am £140 in pocket.
A supplier of an aftermarket bolt on is hardly likely to advocate keeping what is OE.
Historically that was the thing to do. However time changes many things, particularly opinions, but not mine.
You got me thinking, doesn't happen often 🤔... in the future, or maybe now, as with many other "classic" cars it's all about originality. Would stalwart enthusiasts be looking for the original shaped manifold whether decatted or not do you think?
Nothing to stop you keeping the old manifold in case its wanted. This is assuming that your car is otherwise completely stock and a superb example though as that would be the only type of car where it may make a difference.
For people who want to drive the car though, I cant see it making any difference or even being a plus that you have an aftermarket manifold which should save weight, reduce the fear of the pre cats breaking up and maybe? give a little performance gain. They also look better to most I would have thought.
Today's World market price (in US $) at today's exchange rate is £332.50/ tonne. Or £0.3325/ kg. At that rate the OE manifold would need to weigh in at 210 kg to fetch £70 ( half the price of a tubular manifold).
Of course it doesn't weigh that and also you would be unlikely to get the World rate/ tonne at your local scrap yard for an OE manifold.
As for keeping the old one in case a classic collector in the future wants to pay a small fortune for an unmolested OE model, that simply depends on how much space there is at the back of the shed.
For clarity about performance gains look no further than post #7.
Id change from the stock one simply to know the fact that my engine wont eat itself anymore.
Add in the small performance gains, less weight, more noise and a nice looking pipe, its a win win.
There are a lot of cheap clone headers on eBay that are copies of the original TRD design and can use the original heat shields. The Gravity header has awfully short primaries, which is the complete opposite of the Zero which has primaries longer than the TRD design. Neither can use the original heat shields.
Some places in the US have laws that require emission components (such as all cats) to appear visually stock, or be approved replacements. That is one reason many people decat the original manifold or run a header that can use the original heat shields to hide the header. It still "looks" stock.
We have run the cheap clone headers for years with no issues. Not only was that easier that messing with removing the cat material, the headers do seem to give slightly better midrange, and we still have the original manifold on the shelf.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on July 17, 2021, 11:52There are a lot of cheap clone headers on eBay that are copies of the original TRD design and can use the original heat shields. The Gravity header has awfully short primaries, which is the complete opposite of the Zero which has primaries longer than the TRD design. Neither can use the original heat shields.
Some places in the US have laws that require emission components (such as all cats) to appear visually stock, or be approved replacements. That is one reason many people decat the original manifold or run a header that can use the original heat shields to hide the header. It still "looks" stock.
We have run the cheap clone headers for years with no issues. Not only was that easier that messing with removing the cat material, the headers do seem to give slightly better midrange, and we still have the original manifold on the shelf.
The heat shields problem is the only issue with the gravity one that i have come across. Im going to be brave soon and wrap it, heat in the engine bay is alot higher without the shields on.
The zero header is the proper one, but it costs alot of money. If you're tracking or racing and need every gain possible its the one to buy, other than that the clones do a decent job.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on July 17, 2021, 11:52There are a lot of cheap clone headers on eBay that are copies of the original TRD design and can use the original heat shields. The Gravity header has awfully short primaries, which is the complete opposite of the Zero which has primaries longer than the TRD design. Neither can use the original heat shields.
Some places in the US have laws that require emission components (such as all cats) to appear visually stock, or be approved replacements. That is one reason many people decat the original manifold or run a header that can use the original heat shields to hide the header. It still "looks" stock.
We have run the cheap clone headers for years with no issues. Not only was that easier that messing with removing the cat material, the headers do seem to give slightly better midrange, and we still have the original manifold on the shelf.
Useful info. thanks. So your header can accomodate the original heatshield? Which make did you go for?
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 17, 2021, 13:51Useful info. thanks. So your header can accomodate the original heatshield? Which make did you go for?
We bought the headers many years ago, but there are a lot on the US eBay site.
Example (https://www.ebay.com/itm/202786310732?hash=item2f37018a4c%3Ag%3Al5AAAOSwwJVdiuMm&fits=Submodel%3ABase%7CYear%3A2002%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A1.8L%7CModel%3AMR2+Spyder%7CMake%3AToyota%7CTrim%3ABase+Convertible+2-Door%7CEngine%3A1.8L+1794CC+l4+GAS+DOHC+Naturally+Aspirated)
Note that prices vary a lot, but most are the same part from the same suppliers in China
Thanks, probably wouldn't get it from the us simply because of the cost of postage and import duty. BTW probably a daft question but what are those two straight lugs that stick out near the "amigo" end, on some of the after market ones?
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 17, 2021, 17:05Thanks, probably wouldn't get it from the us simply because of the cost of postage and import duty. BTW probably a daft question but what are those two straight lugs that stick out near the "amigo" end, on some of the after market ones?
Lower mounts for the inner heat shield.
Quote from: Beachbum957 on July 17, 2021, 18:32Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 17, 2021, 17:05Thanks, probably wouldn't get it from the us simply because of the cost of postage and import duty. BTW probably a daft question but what are those two straight lugs that stick out near the "amigo" end, on some of the after market ones?
Lower mounts for the inner heat shield.
Thanks 👍
Well, I went for a swap of standard manifold for a Malian straight through manifold in the end. All went well with operation with all head nuts coming free with studs remaining in the block, and the three amigos played ball although one stud decided to leave with the nut, no problems.
One small issue was the offside O2 sensor wire being a tiny bit too short to reach the connector on the engine block near the dipstick. Resolved by purchasing the rear Denso sensor with the long cable attached.
My question for members, who may have also experienced this, as the original heatshields associated with the original manifold are no longer in place, I wrapped the manifold in titanium wrap to help retain the heat. Despite this the engine bay and engine lid seem to be getting very hot after a "normal" journey (not a spirited drive 😉). Has anyone noticed this and is it or could it become a problem? Hoping its not an issue and am I worrying unduly 🙄?
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 27, 2021, 14:28Well, I went for a swap of standard manifold for a Malian straight through manifold in the end. All went well with operation with all head nuts coming free with studs remaining in the block, and the three amigos played ball although one stud decided to leave with the nut, no problems.
One small issue was the offside O2 sensor wire being a tiny bit too short to reach the connector on the engine block near the dipstick. Resolved by purchasing the rear Denso sensor with the long cable attached.
My question for members, who may have also experienced this, as the original heatshields associated with the original manifold are no longer in place, I wrapped the manifold in titanium wrap to help retain the heat. Despite this the engine bay and engine lid seem to be getting very hot after a "normal" journey (not a spirited drive 😉). Has anyone noticed this and is it or could it become a problem? Hoping its not an issue and am I worrying unduly 🙄?
It can get very hot back there and it is completely normal. The reason why it seems to be very hot is primarily because the exhaust side components are rear facing. With the same engine in the front engine configuration the exhaust header is against the fire wall and the cat under the car where the radiated heat is shielded. Our configuration is better because the area of the fire wall with all of its components and wiring stays cooler because there is no radiator in the engine bay. When the car is in motion most of that radiated heat goes out the back.
Quote from: Dev on July 27, 2021, 14:55Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 27, 2021, 14:28Well, I went for a swap of standard manifold for a Malian straight through manifold in the end. All went well with operation with all head nuts coming free with studs remaining in the block, and the three amigos played ball although one stud decided to leave with the nut, no problems.
One small issue was the offside O2 sensor wire being a tiny bit too short to reach the connector on the engine block near the dipstick. Resolved by purchasing the rear Denso sensor with the long cable attached.
My question for members, who may have also experienced this, as the original heatshields associated with the original manifold are no longer in place, I wrapped the manifold in titanium wrap to help retain the heat. Despite this the engine bay and engine lid seem to be getting very hot after a "normal" journey (not a spirited drive 😉). Has anyone noticed this and is it or could it become a problem? Hoping its not an issue and am I worrying unduly 🙄?
It can get very hot back there and it is completely normal. The reason why it seems to be very hot is primarily because the exhaust side components are rear facing. With the same engine in the front engine configuration the exhaust header is against the fire wall and the cat under the car where the radiated heat is shielded. Our configuration is better because the area of the fire wall with all of its components and wiring stays cooler because there is no radiator in the engine bay. When the car is in motion most of that radiated heat goes out the back.
Thanks Dev, that's good to hear, I was thinking some heat reflecting insulation above the engine fixed to the engine lid might help?
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 27, 2021, 15:17Quote from: Dev on July 27, 2021, 14:55Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 27, 2021, 14:28Well, I went for a swap of standard manifold for a Malian straight through manifold in the end. All went well with operation with all head nuts coming free with studs remaining in the block, and the three amigos played ball although one stud decided to leave with the nut, no problems.
One small issue was the offside O2 sensor wire being a tiny bit too short to reach the connector on the engine block near the dipstick. Resolved by purchasing the rear Denso sensor with the long cable attached.
My question for members, who may have also experienced this, as the original heatshields associated with the original manifold are no longer in place, I wrapped the manifold in titanium wrap to help retain the heat. Despite this the engine bay and engine lid seem to be getting very hot after a "normal" journey (not a spirited drive 😉). Has anyone noticed this and is it or could it become a problem? Hoping its not an issue and am I worrying unduly 🙄?
It can get very hot back there and it is completely normal. The reason why it seems to be very hot is primarily because the exhaust side components are rear facing. With the same engine in the front engine configuration the exhaust header is against the fire wall and the cat under the car where the radiated heat is shielded. Our configuration is better because the area of the fire wall with all of its components and wiring stays cooler because there is no radiator in the engine bay. When the car is in motion most of that radiated heat goes out the back.
Thanks Dev, that's good to hear, I was thinking some heat reflecting insulation above the engine fixed to the engine lid might help?
There is some kind of insulation on underside of the engine lid. I think its for sound damping. It might have been removed on your car. I removed mine many years ago and you would think with the amount of heat the paint would get damaged over time but I have no issues. If there was an issue with the heat it would have been reported by now.
Some people believe adding electronic fans will help but it is an exercise in futility. There is not much you can do with fans when you are dealing with very high temps from exhaust components and are more likely to distribute it to the front of the engine. Just know that Toyota designed this car right and the actual engine has the potential to run cooler than a front engine car but it is all regulated by the ECU and thermostat to be at the correct operational range.
In some other mid-engine configurations having the exhaust up front can create other issues with the hot exhaust pipes up agents coolant, oil and wiring harness lines which we don't have because its all packaged furtherest away from the engine. Very good design especially if you want to turbocharge.
Quote from: Dev on July 27, 2021, 15:35Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 27, 2021, 15:17Quote from: Dev on July 27, 2021, 14:55Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 27, 2021, 14:28Well, I went for a swap of standard manifold for a Malian straight through manifold in the end. All went well with operation with all head nuts coming free with studs remaining in the block, and the three amigos played ball although one stud decided to leave with the nut, no problems.
One small issue was the offside O2 sensor wire being a tiny bit too short to reach the connector on the engine block near the dipstick. Resolved by purchasing the rear Denso sensor with the long cable attached.
My question for members, who may have also experienced this, as the original heatshields associated with the original manifold are no longer in place, I wrapped the manifold in titanium wrap to help retain the heat. Despite this the engine bay and engine lid seem to be getting very hot after a "normal" journey (not a spirited drive 😉). Has anyone noticed this and is it or could it become a problem? Hoping its not an issue and am I worrying unduly 🙄?
It can get very hot back there and it is completely normal. The reason why it seems to be very hot is primarily because the exhaust side components are rear facing. With the same engine in the front engine configuration the exhaust header is against the fire wall and the cat under the car where the radiated heat is shielded. Our configuration is better because the area of the fire wall with all of its components and wiring stays cooler because there is no radiator in the engine bay. When the car is in motion most of that radiated heat goes out the back.
Thanks Dev, that's good to hear, I was thinking some heat reflecting insulation above the engine fixed to the engine lid might help?
There is some kind of insulation on underside of the engine lid. I think its for sound damping. It might have been removed on your car. I removed mine many years ago and you would think with the amount of heat the paint would get damaged over time but I have no issues. If there was an issue with the heat it would have been reported by now.
Some people believe adding electronic fans will help but it is an exercise in futility. There is not much you can do with fans when you are dealing with very high temps from exhaust components and are more likely to distribute it to the front of the engine. Just know that Toyota designed this car right and the actual engine has the potential to run cooler than a front engine car but it is all regulated by the ECU and thermostat to be at the correct operational range.
In some other mid-engine configurations having the exhaust up front can create other issues with the hot exhaust pipes up agents coolant, oil and wiring harness lines which we don't have because its all packaged furtherest away from the engine. Very good design especially if you want to turbocharge.
Yep, still got some insulation under engine lid, reassuring to know it should not be a problem 👍
Quick piccy of the finished installation.... IMG_20210728_071331.jpg
Took the opportunity to start tarting up the top of the subframe as access was improved during installation of the new header. Actually access to this area of the engine bay is better with the heat shields removed. Possibly a mod to add some more storage space 🤔? Maybe not so good for carrying the ice cream home though 😂.
Maybe a storage space could be made?
Personally I'd use it to heat a curry ready to eat when arriving at work ::) ::)
Quote from: Mr2paul on July 28, 2021, 15:27Maybe a storage space could be made?
Personally I'd use it to heat a curry ready to eat when arriving at work ::) ::)
Absolutely, baked spuds, bacon, burgers.... the possibilities are endless 😂.
Did yours not come with the optional Toyota manifold hot plate. Part number 1520-26365
R0002460.jpg
Re the O2 sensors. I've fitted a Zero Exhausts manifold and this came with instructions to replace the standard length offside sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 1) with a longer one together with selected manufacture's part numbers.
So for example standard Denso one is DOX-0204 which is 360mm long but says to use DOX-0205 which is 530mm. Equivalent rear sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 2) on our cars is DOX-0206 and comes in at 850mm which is a bit too long.
Quote from: Ardent on July 28, 2021, 23:43Did yours not come with the optional Toyota manifold hot plate. Part number 1520-26365
R0002460.jpg
Sadly not 🤔
Quote from: ManInDandism on July 29, 2021, 13:29Re the O2 sensors. I've fitted a Zero Exhausts manifold and this came with instructions to replace the standard length offside sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 1) with a longer one together with selected manufacture's part numbers.
So for example standard Denso one is DOX-0204 which is 360mm long but says to use DOX-0205 which is 530mm. Equivalent rear sensor (Bank 1 Sensor 2) on our cars is DOX-0206 and comes in at 850mm which is a bit too long.
Useful info... the 0205 sensor would be neater for sure, but the 0206 was only £28 delivered which seemed quite good value 👍.
Quote from: shnazzle on July 16, 2021, 21:39Or keep the stock one. A big dump and a haircut will gain you more performance.
Definitely keeping the stock one... but on a shelf in the workshop to prove it was intact when removed 👍
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on July 30, 2021, 22:03Quote from: shnazzle on July 16, 2021, 21:39Or keep the stock one. A big dump and a haircut will gain you more performance.
Definitely keeping the stock one... but on a shelf in the workshop to prove it was intact when removed 👍
I photographed the intact pre cat honeycomb before removing it and refitting the OE unit. No pre de cat dyno, no post de cat dyno, but pretty sure it gained me mucho horses!
😉
Can anyone please confirm if the two crush gaskets on the exhaust manifold require exhaust sealing compound or are they tightened up dry please? I used some paste but fear I shouldn't have 🙄.
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on August 9, 2021, 18:56Can anyone please confirm if the two crush gaskets on the exhaust manifold require exhaust sealing compound or are they tightened up dry please? I used some paste but fear I shouldn't have 🙄.
No - you shouldn't have. Hopefully all will be fine. Strictly speaking, one should not employ paste upstream of the cat. But, if it wasn't large dollops, you'll probably be OK. I trust you used OEM spec ones. The aftermarket ones are poor, I'm afraid.
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on August 9, 2021, 18:56Can anyone please confirm if the two crush gaskets on the exhaust manifold require exhaust sealing compound or are they tightened up dry please? I used some paste but fear I shouldn't have 🙄.
The crush gaskets are intended to be used as they come, and my understanding is that they should be used once only, although there have been reports of their being reused. As you have applied an unnecessary sealing compound I suggest that you now leave the joint as it is and be prepared perhaps to spend a little time in cleaning the joint should you need to replace the cat for example.
Oops! Well I've removed the cat section and have started to clean up the faces. New gaskets on the way. I've been concerned it hadn't sealed properly and after inspection it may well have been leaking, it certainly didn't sound as sweet as I think it should.
Well all done, new genuine Toyota manifold to downpipe gaskets and a new donut gasket at the other end. Soo different, I thought it sounded too noisy, sweet now. Thanks #carolyn, I totally concur that the two genuine toyota gaskets are a must for a great seal below the exhaust manifold. Only about £12 for the pair. I asked the cost of a rear subframe when I collected the gaskets, nearly £400 plus vat. Ouch! Guy at Toyota seemed slightly surprised they were still available but said it was down to supply and demand and the folks like us who want to preserve the marque. But he joked don't wait 20 years to order one as they will cease to be available at some point 😎.
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on August 12, 2021, 20:48Well all done, new genuine Toyota manifold to downpipe gaskets and a new donut gasket at the other end. Soo different, I thought it sounded too noisy, sweet now. Thanks #carolyn, I totally concur that the two genuine toyota gaskets are a must for a great seal below the exhaust manifold. Only about £12 for the pair. I asked the cost of a rear subframe when I collected the gaskets, nearly £400 plus vat. Ouch! Guy at Toyota seemed slightly surprised they were still available but said it was down to supply and demand and the folks like us who want to preserve the marque. But he joked don't wait 20 years to order one as they will cease to be available at some point 😎.
Recent posts on here advise that the subframes are available from our affiliate TCB at around £300 all in.
Quote from: Joesson on August 12, 2021, 21:07Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on August 12, 2021, 20:48Well all done, new genuine Toyota manifold to downpipe gaskets and a new donut gasket at the other end. Soo different, I thought it sounded too noisy, sweet now. Thanks #carolyn, I totally concur that the two genuine toyota gaskets are a must for a great seal below the exhaust manifold. Only about £12 for the pair. I asked the cost of a rear subframe when I collected the gaskets, nearly £400 plus vat. Ouch! Guy at Toyota seemed slightly surprised they were still available but said it was down to supply and demand and the folks like us who want to preserve the marque. But he joked don't wait 20 years to order one as they will cease to be available at some point 😎.
Recent posts on here advise that the subframes are available from our affiliate TCB at around £300 all in.
Just purchased at £264 all in.
Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on August 13, 2021, 09:37Quote from: Joesson on August 12, 2021, 21:07Quote from: BARNPOT2000 on August 12, 2021, 20:48Well all done, new genuine Toyota manifold to downpipe gaskets and a new donut gasket at the other end. Soo different, I thought it sounded too noisy, sweet now. Thanks #carolyn, I totally concur that the two genuine toyota gaskets are a must for a great seal below the exhaust manifold. Only about £12 for the pair. I asked the cost of a rear subframe when I collected the gaskets, nearly £400 plus vat. Ouch! Guy at Toyota seemed slightly surprised they were still available but said it was down to supply and demand and the folks like us who want to preserve the marque. But he joked don't wait 20 years to order one as they will cease to be available at some point 😎.
Recent posts on here advise that the subframes are available from our affiliate TCB at around £300 all in.
Just purchased at £264 all in.
An indicator, if necessary that Main Dealers have to fund the chrome and glass of the new car sales showrooms. Also that it is a Specialist such as Paul at TCB that we should be supporting.
Hello everyone,
I have a Malian header which arrived today. I realise that it doesn't have anything on the flange at the bottom of the header to attach to the brackets which brace the OEM header to the block. Is this a significant problem? I don't have the capacity to weld anything on to it.
I have the OEM manifold off the car already (it came off surprisingly easy for a 19 year old car!). The precats in it are thankfully in great shape, with no evidence of degredation. Instead of using the Malian header (without the brace, heat shield, etc), is the better option to remove the precats from the OEM manifold and refit it? I have a 3M mask and filters, etc from another job
Either way I have new OEM Toyota gasket and crush rings ready to go
Thanks!
Quote from: bobbe on August 16, 2021, 12:15Hello everyone,
I have a Malian header which arrived today. I realise that it doesn't have anything on the flange at the bottom of the header to attach to the brackets which brace the OEM header to the block. Is this a significant problem? I don't have the capacity to weld anything on to it.
I have the OEM manifold off the car already (it came off surprisingly easy for a 19 year old car!). The precats in it are thankfully in great shape, with no evidence of degredation. Instead of using the Malian header (without the brace, heat shield, etc), is the better option to remove the precats from the OEM manifold and refit it? I have a 3M mask and filters, etc from another job
Either way I have new OEM Toyota gasket and crush rings ready to go
Thanks!
Welcome! Please say hello in the new members section. ( https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?board=75.0 )
Use the Malian one as it is. It will be fine.
That's great, thanks!
Quote from: Carolyn on August 16, 2021, 12:54Please say hello in the new members section. ( https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?board=75.0 (https://www.mr2roc.org/forum/index.php?board=75.0) )
I will!
I have another question, if that's okay - is it safe to use copper grease on the head to header bolts? I know the head is aluminium (which copper doesn't play well with), but presumably the gasket and the header flange would keep the copper grease safely away from it?
@bobbe Where in the UK are you based?
We have a meet coming up in September if you are within range.
Stanwick Hotel. Check the events section
Quote from: Ardent on August 16, 2021, 22:37@bobbe
Where in the UK are you based?
We have a meet coming up in September if you are within range.
Stanwick Hotel. Check the events section
I'm in Belfast (where I'm from) for probably the next month or two, but I usually live in Cambridge (where I work). It looks like I probably won't be back in England in time for the meetup, but if that changes then I will try to make it!
Yeah Cambridge is a bit more in range.
Quote from: bobbe on August 16, 2021, 22:03I have another question, if that's okay - is it safe to use copper grease on the head to header bolts? I know the head is aluminium (which copper doesn't play well with), but presumably the gasket and the header flange would keep the copper grease safely away from it?
Some "talk" of dissimilar metals causing electrolytic action when you look at this question. But electrolytic action requires an electrolyte and it won't Be very wet at the cylinder heads/ manifold.
Following is the characteristics of a well known Copper type anti seize compound which states compatible with Aluminium .
Brand Name MOLYSLIP
Compatible Material Stainless steel , Aluminium , Copper , Iron , Galvanized steel
Container size 0.1 kilograms
Ean 5056397600151
Included Components 1 x MolySlip Copaslip High-Performance Compound 100 g
Item Weight 100 grams
Lower Temperature Rating -40 degrees_celsius
Model Number M113001
Number of Items 1
Part Number M113001
Style Tube
Upper Temperature Rating 1100 degrees_celsius
Since you've raised the subject of the use of copper grease on the engine there is this from NGK that advises against it's use on spark plugs:
https://www.driven2automotive.com/blog/why-you-shouldnt-use-copper-grease-when-installing-spark-plugs/
Strangely copper grease or something very similar is preapplied to the O2 sensor threads when new.
Having been gifted a large can of the stuff I use it most places where I want to be able to remove the fixing at some point in the future. Importantly I believe it is not a lubricant, and it's used is to prevent screw threads seizing.
Not to be used on brake systems, where special lubricants are required.
Good info, thanks!
Quote from: Joesson on August 17, 2021, 09:15Quote from: bobbe on August 16, 2021, 22:03I have another question, if that's okay - is it safe to use copper grease on the head to header bolts? I know the head is aluminium (which copper doesn't play well with), but presumably the gasket and the header flange would keep the copper grease safely away from it?
Some "talk" of dissimilar metals causing electrolytic action when you look at this question. But electrolytic action requires an electrolyte and it won't Be very wet at the cylinder heads/ manifold.
Following is the characteristics of a well known Copper type anti seize compound which states compatible with Aluminium .
Brand Name MOLYSLIP
Compatible Material Stainless steel , Aluminium , Copper , Iron , Galvanized steel
Container size 0.1 kilograms
Ean 5056397600151
Included Components 1 x MolySlip Copaslip High-Performance Compound 100 g
Item Weight 100 grams
Lower Temperature Rating -40 degrees_celsius
Model Number M113001
Number of Items 1
Part Number M113001
Style Tube
Upper Temperature Rating 1100 degrees_celsius
Since you've raised the subject of the use of copper grease on the engine there is this from NGK that advises against it's use on spark plugs:
https://www.driven2automotive.com/blog/why-you-shouldnt-use-copper-grease-when-installing-spark-plugs/
Strangely copper grease or something very similar is preapplied to the O2 sensor threads when new.
Having been gifted a large can of the stuff I use it most places where I want to be able to remove the fixing at some point in the future. Importantly I believe it is not a lubricant, and it's used is to prevent screw threads seizing.
Not to be used on brake systems, where special lubricants are required.
Two of the big reasons why they advise not to use anti seize in certain applications.
1.It changes the torque value. Sometimes it is important to have dry friction to arrest what you are threading in. It can be crucial if you don't want what you are screwing to go beyond a certain depth.
2. The next important reason is having the bolts walk due to vibrations. The anti seize does act like a lubricant and with vibrations can undo exhaust components causing them to leak. For 02 sensors its not a problem but for mounting headers it is not advised. A better way is to use high temp thread lock which I had to use so my chi downpipe would not blow gaskets.
Despite this some misguided people use anti seize on their lug nuts and then they use factory torque numbers which is a disaster in the making.
Header on today, no problems. Took the car for a drive afterwards - 40 miles or so - in case any warning lights came up or I noticed any isues. All good!