Hi,
Has anyone had there pre-cats gutted on a import model?
Would it make any difference to MOT being an import without pre-cats?
Sorry for all the questions, mr T has said they would gut them for me, if thats what i really want, just want to make sure it will pass MOT.
Cheers Grant
Mr T said that for you?? mines told me they woulndt touch it as they arent allowed to take them out
how much they gona charge you?
Quote from: "ghollis_84"Sorry for all the questions, mr T has said they would gut them for me, if thats what i really want, just want to make sure it will pass MOT.
Crikey - where is this helpful dealer? s:) :) s:)
And yep - you'll have no problem getting through an MOT in the UK with no pre cats. They only affect emissions on cold start up, and currently we do not test emissions from cold over here (as far as I know, there are no plans to, either.. In all likelihood, if we do switch to the Euro-3 emissions standards, it will be for new cars only anyway)
This is a new dealer in Letchworth, I used to have to travel to Bishop Stortford but now this one is here. Luckily i know the manager of the parts and service part of the garage and i spoke to him about it yest and they said they would do it for me.
They arent sure on the price yet, but they recon about an hours labour and parts which i think is the gaskets, but nothing is final as there not sure how long it will take
Quote from: "aaronjb"In all likelihood, if we do switch to the Euro-3 emissions standards, it will be for new cars only anyway.
Hmmmm...all current cars are Euro 3 emission standard.
I really doubt individual cars will ever be tested for Euro 3 after the sales, cause that test takes some 10 hours in total and costs +£1k.
Quote from: "Tem"Hmmmm...all current cars are Euro 3 emission standard.
I really doubt individual cars will ever be tested for Euro 3 after the sales, cause that test takes some 10 hours in total and costs +£1k.
What I meant was, it's unlikely that the government would say "Right, as of now [2005], all cars built from 2001 (for sake of argument) will be tested for cold start emissions, as per Euro3", but rather "All cars sold from this point on will be tested for cold start emissions"..
As I understand it, isn't that the only real addition from Euro3?
Quote from: "aaronjb""All cars sold from this point on will be tested for cold start emissions"
Very unlikely...think about it, if you drove your car to be tested for cold start emissions, you'd have to leave it there for hours to cool it down, so they can test it...
QuoteAs I understand it, isn't that the only real addition from Euro3?
I believe even Euro 1 from 1992 tested cold start emissions. The only real difference from Euro 1&2 to 3 is that the 3 requires OBD. And obviously each step allowed less emissions.
The test is done in a lab on a chassis dynamometer. The temp, humidity etc are all defined and the car has to stand there for hours before the test can start (I think it was 10 hours, could've been 8 as well). Then the car is started and driven for what simulates a typical run, first slow speeds and stopping (leaving home), then higher speeds without stopping (highway) and again slower speeds with stoppings (getting at work). And finally it's shut down. All pollutions from starting to stop are measured and even a final puff from turning the engine off can make you fail it s:? :? s:?
I bet we won't ever see that for used cars. It would require huge labs to test every car once a year, keeping it under conditioned temp overnight.
Quote from: "Tem"if you drove your car to be tested for cold start emissions, you'd have to leave it there for hours to cool it down, so they can test it...
You've never taken a car for an MOT in the UK, have you Tem? s;) ;) s;) s:lol: :lol: s:lol: (I jest - some places will do it 'while you wait' (it's only a 45min test, after all).. Toyota need the car 'all day' s:roll: :roll: s:roll: )
Interesting, though.. So all these emissions regs really only affect cars at the type approval stage, rather than when they're running on the road.. which is probably a good thing (for us, at any rate).
Just returning to the original questions......
Quote from: "ghollis_84"Has anyone had there pre-cats gutted on a import model?
Yes
Quote from: "ghollis_84"Would it make any difference to MOT being an import without pre-cats?
No.
Tem & Aaron are right: Cold-start emissions testing on existing cars would be chaotic. Add to that the fact that new cars are not liable for testing for the first 3 years anyway and you have something that is a complete non-starter. If its part of Type Approval, then fine - it won't affect us s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Thanx Aaron and Spit,
Just wondering, cause guy who is going to do it hasnt done one before its just Gaskets that they need right, when taking the manifold off.
Quote from: "ghollis_84"Just wondering, cause guy who is going to do it hasnt done one before its just Gaskets that they need right, when taking the manifold off.
Yep. The
two compression gaskets for the compensation joint between Manifold and Cat pieces should be renewed.
I replaced the manifold gasket too while I was at it.
Thanx Spit,
Well i have not long had the pre-cat and cat changed and plus a whole engine rebuild so the manifold gasket should be pretty new i think, correct me if i am wrong
I would hope so.....but depends who did it and how well they did it.
My penchant for renewing all gaskets must be a genetic thing from my Dad (as mentioned in another thread s:wink: :wink: s:wink: )
Well it was mr T who replaced the Pre-cat and Cat so i would hope that they did, thats when the Gasket is aint it?
Yes, they would have replaced those. I'd still advise new ones though, for the sake of a few quid, as they're sealing compression rings that work in a compensation joint - much easier to get new ones to seal properly rather than mucking about with used ones that have already "oozed". OMG I'm turning into my Dad s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
They seem to work forever, if you apply some exhaust pipe sealant to them every time you open them.
Of course news ones are always new ones, if you don't have a habit of opening that joint few times per month s8) 8) s8)
Quote from: "Tem"They seem to work forever, if you apply some exhaust pipe sealant to them every time you open them.
Of course news ones are always new ones, if you don't have a habit of opening that joint few times per month s8) 8) s8)
Good point Tem - a tube of gloop is about half the price, or free if your garage fits it.
However, one of my O's had started to shred at 40,000 miles, so for the sake of a few quid I went for new. IMHE the compensation joint can be a sod to get torqued up correctly, so belt and braces is a good approach.
Thanx for quick reply's guys,
Well as they have only just been changed and mr T will be gutting my cats so i would expect them to use some gloop. providing they where replaced the first time.
I think they going to do it on Tues, i will let you guys know how it goes and prices, etc.
Hi Guys and Gals,
Got car back from Mr T yesterday after successfully Gutting Pre-Cat,
Atleast i can now sleep at nite knowing my car will not have anymore problems with them.
Prices:
£68.03
Which included:
- Gaskets
- Labour
- And free Valet
thats not too bad, might save myself the hassle and pop down!
and this was the local Mr T? can you give me their ful details so i can go to my mr t and say see, the other dealership done it why wont you?
Quote from: "ghollis_84"Prices:
£68.03
Which included:
- Gaskets
- Labour
- And free Valet
Blimey! That's a complete and utter bargain IMHO. It's worth it just to save the considerable hassle involved in doing it yourself... I presume they'd have charged you more if they'd run into problems like seized/sheared bolts?
Last time I tried to discuss pre-cats with the service guy at my local Mr T they didn't seem to have a clue what I was going on about - possibly feigning ignorance but possibly not!
Well when i told my Mr T they sort of new what i was going on about, but i took them in the Sticky, Pre-Cat Removal guide.
They also said it was something that i had requested and they wouldnt normally do it, but customer is always right and that i spose.
I pressume they would charge more for seized/Sheared bolts, luckily for me i had not long had a new pre-cat put on (Stupidily i might add) so mine came off easily they said.
As for the garage:
Eden Bridge
Icknield Way
Letchworth
Hertfordshire
SG6 1EF
Tel: 01462 688400
Fax: 01462 688401
did you just speak to the service department and ask for that?
cheers bud think ill give mine a call
Yeah i went straight to the service and parts department, But i do know the manager there so that might be another reason why they did it. If one does i dont see why they all dont, if people aren't worried about there warranty that is.
Glad to be of service Reddi
well my warranty is long gone bud so no worried there
well heres hoping, gona mention it to them today and see how i go, ill let you know
Ok guys heres the story!.
one of the mechanics from mr t will do it for me as an on the side job but mr t themsefs wont to it. so either way im happy its getting done.
what they have said is they dont recomend it as the car seemingly ends up getting the wrong mix amount of air/air etc etc and therfore this will probably cause my malfaunction light (cel) to be on all the time)
Is this correct?
nope loadsa people have them out without any problems!
Quote from: "reddi"Ok guys heres the story!.
one of the mechanics from mr t will do it for me as an on the side job but mr t themsefs wont to it. so either way I'm happy its getting done.
what they have said is they dont recomend it as the car seemingly ends up getting the wrong mix amount of air/air etc etc and therfore this will probably cause my malfaunction light (cel) to be on all the time)
Is this correct?
talking out of teir arses, the cats have no effect on fuelling whatever.
yeah thats what i thought, found it weird them telling me my light will come on all time thinking there was something wrong as it will get wrong ammounts of gas, air etc
Quote from: "markiii"talking out of teir arses, the cats have no effect on fuelling whatever.
Unless, of course, the mechanic was thinking of the main CAT - remove that and you'll get a CEL due to the third O2 sensor. Ok, it's not actually an air/fuel ratio problem, but he [the mech] could have explained it kinda like that.
Anyway, Mark is right - removing the CATs (pre- or main-) will have no effect on air/fuel ratio [that the engine is ingesting], and removing the pre CATs will not (should not!) throw a CEL. Removing the main CAT will, however, throw a CEL on European & US market cars (Japanese cars do not have the 3rd O2 sensor IIRC).
nah they knew it was the pre-cats i was talking about and still said it would throw a cel. bloody liers
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "aaronjb"(Japanese cars do not have the 3rd O2 sensor IIRC).
U do RC s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
So far, no one on this side of the drink has managed to get MrT to do this job, so you guys are really lucky.
Regarding the tech's worries about a CEL, it would be a good idea to reset the ECU following the decatting. Although you won't be at risk of a CEL, this will allow the engine to optimize itself against the reduced backpressure. Remove the negative battery lead, wait 15 min and then restore power.
cheers bud think ill do this. its weird that they tell me it is nearly certain to throw a CEl and yet you guys who actually have the cars say this is rubbish cheers
so to reset ECU i disconnect negative and leave for 15 min! will do :-) :-) :-)
was having a blonde moment, nearly asked you do i reset the ECU by leaving the negative lead of for 15min with the car started or not
s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
need another bit of advise guys. mr t has now came back to me and said the cost will be about £180 for labour, parts etc. didnt know if this seemed very high?
and when spoke to my sales man he said i got given a years warranty with my car so if the pre-cats did go in a year then its covered then could get them out at the end of that year.
everyone says sooner pre-cats are out the better but is £180 silly price?
and in case it came into it, my milage is 36000
How much will the price go up by the end of the years warranty?
Also remember Mr T aren't that good at admitting this problem and if you engine did blow - they would fit a new one containing more pre-cats, personally I would spend the money now and be done with it, but thats just my opinion. I am trying to think what parts - would that be a couple of gaskets and a few bolts, I would ask to see what parts they are talking about. The gaskets are about a tenner.
Quote from: "reddi"was having a blonde moment, nearly asked you do i reset the ECU by leaving the negative lead of for 15min with the car started or not
s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: We have all had our daft moments s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
think your opinion is going to be same as everyones but thought id check.
would still be same price, but i suppose sooner out the better.
1thing he said when i showed him the how to i printed off is "it isnt just as easy as that but we will do it for you", i was like well loads of other owners have used that and said it was as easy as that
well im getting mine out on monday (the pre-cats!!!!!) so then i can sleep easy knowing this will no longer be a worry!
and the guy doing it says he done a couple and adds a nice little noise to the exhaust
just to let everyone know i came back from holiday and my car was parked at my house having been returned by the mechanic with pre-cats removed without any problem and i can now drive without worry of them going wrong, and he was wrong and you guys were right, the CEL light hasnt come on woohoo!!!
was it £180 in the end?
yeah £180, worked out well in the end though as that included all work and parts, which included new bolts as he had to sheer a few and also storing in his garage whilst i was on holiday.
fair enough i got all new bolts and the new gasket already as i know some of heads are knackered s:) :) s:)