Having enquired about a 4 wheel alignment with a T dealership I have not tried before, they mentioned that when doing the Mk2 they had 3 settings from Toyota.
1. best handling, high tire wear
2. neutral
3. lowest tire wear, worst handling
However he didn't know about the Mk3 and would look into it and come back to me.
Anyone heard of three such settings for the MK3 as I heard that the Toyota specs have fairly wide margins for each of the alignment elements e.g camber, toe etc?
Hope you find out cos I'm hoping to fit lowering springs. Would the setting be different with the lowering springs? s:? :? s:?
I had a 4 wheel laser geometry alignment a few days ago and nothing was mentioned about different settings.
I thought correct alignment ensured that the car does not pull left or right when the steering is at 12 o'clock.
Misalignment can reduce handling and increase tyre wear.
I might be wrong here...
As far as I am aware, there is only one set of settings for the mk3. The mk2 had several sets as there were several versions. For instance the suspension had major mods done on later cars, as earlier ones were notoriously tail happy if you lifted off the throttle mid bend. These two had different settings. Then there are the turbo versions of the car, and who knows what other incarnations over the 5 revisions that Toyota produced...
The mk3 has only been around 3 years, and although the suspension has recieved some minor tweaks on the '03 model, the basic settings are still the same. That said, these settings are only Toyots's reccomended settings, and some gains can be had by tweaking them slightly, for instance you could add more negative camber. However, while more negative camber can give you more grip, the trade off is increased tyre wear...
The autocross guys over on SC routinely add more camber to their cars by using crash bolts, and play around with toe settings in order to get the car to handle more to their liking. Ask over there for more details..
Thanks for the replies. My problem seems to be that the steering wheel is a few degrees to the left when going straight. Straightening it results in drift to the right so I hope it is sorted by the alignment and not a steering rack issue of some sort.
I am going to try Lincolns Tyre Service in Stevenage to do the wheel alignment and got the Toyota data from an earlier post.
However can someone explaining what the following means?
Quote**** Special Note ****
When making adjustments ensure that the Thrust Angle, is set as near to the Nominal "0" as possible.
I managed to track down an excellent little article on wheel alignment which answers my question above and could be useful to anyone like me who doesn't know what all the setting are.
http://www.familycar.com/alignment.htm
Good find, makes interesting reading for another person who knows nothing at all about this! s:D :D s:D
Just for the record in case anyone searches in future. Here is how my alignment came out.
(http://www.apbw47.dsl.pipex.com/alignment.jpg)
The alignment was done at Lincolns Tyre in Stevenage at http://www.lincolnstyre.co.uk/index.htm and their machine already had our MR2's data in it. Just make sure they select ZZW30 for our model.
L, questions, questions. How much was the alignment from Lincoln? Did you have to book the car in and how long did it take?
I know nothing about wheel alighnment, so can someone clear something up for me?
Looking at that picture, the left front camber is -0.52 and the right is -0.33 ( and all the other settings) .... why are they not set the same left to right?
It was £60 for the four wheel alignment. I did book ahead but they were able to do a Saturday whereas MrT could only do weekday. Alignment was done in 1 hour. I had the rear toe done as that was out most and the the front as well so that the thrust angle was zero and I went straight - or thats what they told me s:? :? s:?
As for the difference in figures, the original figures were uneven so I guess the factory tolerances are not that great. Maybe the difference accounts for the effect of the driver sitting in the vehicle ?
They did get some of the figures closer together and the main issue was to get that rear left toe sorted.
They were also able to get me a complete set of Goodyear F1 GSD-2s at 1 hour notice for £317 so I had them stuck on to replace the Yokos for the winter and then the four wheel alignment. The car now steers straight and handles fine whizzing around the roundabouts. However first impressions are of minor steering wheel vibration at motorway speeds s:? :? s:? Could be (I hope) the balancing of the wheel but I will get on the roads tomorrow to see if I can diagnose it better. If there any alignments whizzs who might be able to second guess an alternative reason?
Quote from: "krisclarkuk"I know nothing about wheel alighnment, so can someone clear something up for me?
Looking at that picture, the left front camber is -0.52 and the right is -0.33 ( and all the other settings) .... why are they not set the same left to right?
Camber on the front of the MR2 is not adjustable as standard. To adjust it you need to be able to either shorten/lenghten the bar that leads from the bodywork to the hub, or move the top of the strut right or left in relation to the car. This can only be done with use of crashbolts, (bolts with an eccentric shaft that can alter geometry very slightly) or adjustable strut tops, so basically you get what you're given. However I would say that the difference above is tiny, and well within tolerance, so unless you are a pro racer, I wouldn't worry to much about it...
almost but you got it in reverse.
The front is adjustable the rear isn't.
Quote from: "markiii"almost but you got it in reverse.
The front is adjustable the rear isn't.
Oops, Monday again... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "markiii"almost but you got it in reverse.
The front is adjustable the rear isn't.
Hang on, minor confusion here, although I'm sure I could quite easily sort this out for myself if I had my car with me at work...
If the front is adjustable, how is it adjusted? From memory there is an A frame lower arm and a non-movable strut top, I dont recall seeing any adjustment for camber there.
Also, Lusaka's printout above shows an unchanged front camber but the near side rear wheel's camber has been corrected...
EDIT: Forget that, the readouts are in degrees and minutes, Not decimals, the camber has hardly moved.I hate mondays, my brain refuses to compute even the most simple tasks...
Quote from: "Lusaka"It was £60 for the four wheel alignment.
Is this the price I should expect to pay for the alignment? I think I need it doing but haven't got around to sorting it out yet.
About £60 was what I was quoted by a Toyota dealer but I went local instead as I could get it and the new tyres all under one roof.
I got my vibration in the steering wheel sorted - it was the wheel balance on one of the front wheels.
I should have guessed because when I checked the car at home, one front wheel had 2 large weights whilst the other had 1 small one. The guy at Lincolns took the tyre off, rotated it on the alloy, rebalanced and bingo -it went from requiring 70g to 35g and the vibration appears to be gone (albeit on a short test drive). The other wheel is on 20g.
Always worth checking to see if there is such a large discrepancy.
I took my car yesterday morning for an alignment at Lincoln Tyres after reading Lusaka's post.
The before results found that the front toe was too negative and slightly uneven after changing to the Eibach springs. I never noticed a problem whilst driving but the car did 'twitch' when I took corners a bit too fast but I blamed this on my Yokos as they've done 11k. My rear camber was found to be fine after SteveJ's excellent fine tuning when the springs were fitted s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Anyway I went to Lincoln's and 1 hour and £59.87 later the alignment was complete and they also evened up the slightly uneven rear toe as well even though it was within the set tolerance. I definitely recommend Lincoln for alignment for anyone who doesn't mind a trip to Stevenage.
And the car does feel much better on cornering.
Back in September '03 I had done a 4 wheel laser alignment; yesterday I noticed that the steering wheel was misaligned again - very similar to 5 months ago.
Any idea how common this is? Has anyone else had this problem appearing again in such a sort period of time?
yep
Why DOES this happen? Especially as the wheels don't get knocked, banged or detrimentally driven? I thought that all the nuts and screws should be tightened a best as possible?
Doesn't make sense and never has to me.......... s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "markiii"yep
markiii, did you have it re-aligned under warranty? I paid 5 months ago because I thought it was my fault but this time is definitely out of the blue...
John, do you have the same problem as well?
I paid last time and went to lincoln. They are good, but and it's a big but. when Toyota quote you a price it's for the job.
Lincolns £59 is assuming at most 2 changes need to be made. Every additional change is £15 plus VAT.
bearing in mind they fiddled with mine foe 2 hours this went up to £160
not so good.
We compromised on £100 in then end as I was being a fussy git, and they hadn't been as clear as they should have been.
At least with Toyota it's a price period. Bearing in mind how much of a ball ache our car can be to setup the price isn't that bad.
Ref warranty.
I had the first one done with Toyota a year or so back done free since I'd had the problem since new.
One thing I have noticed is that there is always a slight pull to the left due to the lightness of our wheels and the camber of teh road.
One positive apect when I swopped to 17" wheels was that tis went away. Get steve to explain about teh gyroscope effect as this seems to be the reason.
Thanks for the info markiii.
I am seriously considering selling the MR2 due to the incapability of my local dealer to do a decent job and all the sh*t I have to put up with. The latest and greatest excuse is that my Eagle F1s cause the misalignment!!!
To top it all, I asked for a print-out of the result of the alignment. Their response was that I couldn't have one because their printer has no paper!!!
In previous occasions, they left the interior dirty, scratched the inside door trim (thank God it's only a small scratch) and wanted to dismantle the engine cover because of a rattle inside the cabin.
Anyway sorry about my moaning, my car is in the garage as we speak having the wheels laser aligned and the hubs and disks changed (rust). I prey there will be no problems...
I do beleive we are going to need a rate your dealer poll soon :-) :-) :-)
Worth finding a decent dealer even if it's a little better.
I usually end up waiting for mine, as I don't trust any body with mine.
Excellent idea markiii. My dealer proved to be useless; I would love to say a few words about them. Could any of the moderators care to create a poll and maybe make a sticky for easy reference?
I am eagerly waiting to post my experiences...
Back to the topic... The dealer changed all 4 corroded disks including the hubs but failed to align the steering - it was still pulling to the right. Not only that but when I got the car back, there was excessive body roll to the right!!!
I argued and argued and argued completely wasting my time. The dealer insisted that they aligned the car according to the spec and that there is nothing else they could do as my tyres are not what Toyota recommends!!!
In the end, we agreed that if I took the car somewhere else and have it sorted, I would get a full refund. So, I went to Kwik Fit and voilà, the car is perfectly aligned. I am curious to find out if I will indeed get a refund on Monday.
Just to reignite this topic, I have noticed in the first week of owning my MR2 that the steering wheel is fractionally to the left and when accellerating hard, the car seems to drift so slightly to the left even if I was on the other side of the road (so to eliminate camber)!
My questions are:
1/ Can the steering wheel be aligned dead central because I know of some instances where some cars it is very difficult to obtain.
2/ I have a P5000 tyre on the left and a P6000 on the right rear of my car, can this have any bearing on the drift when accellerating above 60mph (motorways etc)
The car feels very unstable on a motorway or similar almost as if its getting blown around by wind like a high sided vehicle!!! What causes this or is it normal?
Im desperate to find out cause if these are all faults I have an opportunity to hand the car back within 28days and thats just what i'll do!
thanks for helping me out (a novice to mr2's)!
yes teh steering wheel can be adjusted.
first job get those tyres changed.
your going to end up in a ditch or worse if you don't have matching tyres all round
As Markiii says first job get 4 tyres all the same make/type.
Then if symptoms persist get a 4 wheel alignment check done. Maybe the dealer who sold you the vehicle will carry this out for you, if you look like your rejecting the car.
Once the adjustment is carried out the steering wheel will be centred and your problem should hopefully disappear.
As someone who used to fit tyres, when you have the alignment done, ask for the steering rack to be centralised. Over a period of time with several adjustments being made, the "straight ahead" position may not be in the dead centre position of the rack, a classic symptom of this is if the steering wheel is not central when travelling in a straight line (presuming the steering wheel hasn't been moved on the splines).
HTH
Quote from: "steveupton"As someone who used to fit tyres, when you have the alignment done, ask for the steering rack to be centralised. Over a period of time with several adjustments being made, the "straight ahead" position may not be in the dead centre position of the rack, a classic symptom of this is if the steering wheel is not central when travelling in a straight line (presuming the steering wheel hasn't been moved on the splines).
HTH
good point, but why the hell is it not done anyway, surely this is just bad practice and laziness not to centralize the steering wheel
But I think you will fine that all MR2's come from the factory with a steering wheel offset to the left; I know mine did s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "heathstimpson"But I think you will fine that all MR2's come from the factory with a steering wheel offset to the left; I know mine did s:? :? s:?
Huh...mine didn't s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "heathstimpson"But I think you will fine that all MR2's come from the factory with a steering wheel offset to the left; I know mine did s:? :? s:?
Huh...mine didn't s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Maybe its an England dealer thing s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "heathstimpson"Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "heathstimpson"But I think you will fine that all MR2's come from the factory with a steering wheel offset to the left; I know mine did s:? :? s:?
Huh...mine didn't s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Maybe its an England dealer thing s:? :? s:?
nope, neither of ours did s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "heathstimpson"But I think you will fine that all MR2's come from the factory with a steering wheel offset to the left; I know mine did s:? :? s:?
Mine did s:( :( s:(
Mine didn't. But, I just had a 4 wheel alignment test and adjustments during my 20k service and then closely afterwards, 4 new wheels.
After that it was pulling to the left and the wheel wasn't centred.
It went back yesterday and they said they have just had their set up recalibrated - obviously calibrated wrongly s:o :o s:o
Seems to drive fine after today's test.
Jason
Protyre in Enfield (on the A10) will do a 4 wheel laser allignment for free! however any adjustments you will be charged for.
don't sound free to me then
Quote from: "Ross_Curtis"Protyre in Enfield (on the A10) will do a 4 wheel laser allignment for free! however any adjustments you will be charged for.
sounds like they will check it for free, then tell you its way out then charge you to put it right s:) :) s:)
usually these kind of places charge liek a wounded bull per change they have to make
Quote from: "heathstimpson"But I think you will fine that all MR2's come from the factory with a steering wheel offset to the left; I know mine did s:? :? s:?
Aren't all left-hand-drive cars set up so they pull slightly to the left, and RHD cars slightly to the right?
Something to do with the car naturally steering away from oncoming traffic in the event of a driver falling asleep / suffering a heart attack / receiving a 'Gillian Taylforth' / etc
Great info here
s:) :) s:)
When I get the springs done I should ask for a wheel alignment and a steering rack alignment?...is that still valid to do?
If i decide not to get this done at the Mrt garage that is doing the springs and take it too my great local garage who looked after me with the Alfa....is there any thing they need to know regarding alignmnet etc?
if you fit springs the alignement shoudl be included in teh price typical MRt price is £50 if not included
Okay then its Free for the check and they should give you a print out which states the measurements along with the tolerancies, but any adjustments you pay for but they are reaonable and probably the cheapest tyre place I've found in the area. I've just sold a 306 Rallye which is notoriously hard to balance due to the type of alloys and I've never had a problem unlike many other 306 owners!
1st of all i would like to clear something up that could be confusing a few people reading this (either that or i'm just about to confuse you s:lol: :lol: s:lol: )
4 wheel allignment = adjusting the TOE settings on the front and the rear, and its ONLY the toe settings that get adjusted.. the rear can only be done if there are track rod ends on the rear of a car.. i.e, if its adjustable, and the MK3 isn't adjustable.
Full Global
GEOMETRIC check/adjustment covers 15 different angles (incl the toe settings) Camber, Caster etc etc.
The reason i am pointing out this difference is because if you ask for a 4 wheel allingnment, all you are going to get done is the front toe settings adjusted and the steering wheel centred... when perhaps you wanted a global geometric check done after having changed suspension etc.
Looking at the diagram posted earlier, it looks like a full geometric check was carried out, not 4 wheel allignment as was stated.
Ok.. going back a wee bit to earlier in the thread....
3 different setups??..
Every car can have different setups.. it will depend on what you use the car for.. take racing on an oval cuircit, if you are constantly turning to the right, you are going to wear out the edge of a tyre quicker than you would if you were traveling in a straight line.. so the allignment would be set to "pull" the car to the right.. this would stop the excess tyre wear on the edge of the tyre.. however, if you then were to drive in a straight line it would wear the edge out again... most road going cars are set for even wear when driving in a straight line, and there will be only ONE factory setting for this.
Quote1/ Can the steering wheel be aligned dead central because I know of some instances where some cars it is very difficult to obtain.
A. Yes it can.. and should be... if it isn't get it sorted
Quote2/ I have a P5000 tyre on the left and a P6000 on the right rear of my car, can this have any bearing on the drift when accellerating above 60mph (motorways etc)
A. Other than the fact that mixing tyres isn't reccomended on the 2.. the P5000 is a directional/rotational tyre and the P6000 is by-directional (no direction of rotation) so the P5000 will disperse water quicker than the P6000, it will also create a different amount of friction on the road and lead to the car pulling to one side.
QuoteThe car feels very unstable on a motorway or similar almost as if its getting blown around by wind like a high sided vehicle!!! What causes this or is it normal?
A. I had this after fitting my 17".. after lowering the car on Tein springs, the problem went away.. i put it down to airflow under the car.. that subject could be worth a search.
QuoteAren't all left-hand-drive cars set up so they pull slightly to the left, and RHD cars slightly to the right?
Something to do with the car naturally steering away from oncoming traffic in the event of a driver falling asleep / suffering a heart attack / receiving a 'Gillian Taylforth' / etc
100% correct.. a car should naturally drift very slightly to the nearside.. that is also the reason roads are cambered as well. (also helps prevent the roads from flooding)
Draggon.. when you get your springs fitted.. get a Full Glabal Geometric check carried out.. after a change of suspension it is very possible that the factory settings are no longer applicable, the standard setup is for standard suspension only.. having said that, when i got my springs changed the allignment/geomerty wasn't affected, i am told this is because the car has "semi-struts" and the springs were i direct replacement (same fit as factory) and no other parts needed to be removed/adjusted.
One last thing.. I would reccomend getting the allignment/geomerty checked every 6 months, going over potholes and speed bumps does knock it out over time
If you change your suspension setup, get the full geometric check done and get a copy of the printout.. the next time you need an adjustment, you should only need to get the allignment done useing the new settings that are on the printout from your previous geometric check.
Sorry for the long post.. but i hope its helped.
EDIT:
Why on earth did i think this was July?? s:oops: :oops: s:oops: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
Quote from: "VVT-i"4 wheel allignment = adjusting the TOE settings on the front and the rear, and its ONLY the toe settings that get adjusted.. the rear can only be done if there are track rod ends on the rear of a car.. i.e, if its adjustable, and the MK3 isn't adjustable.
Full Global GEOMETRIC check/adjustment covers 15 different angles (incl the toe settings) Camber, Caster etc etc.
Interesting info and it explains some matters, if that's the case.
Over here 4-wheel alignment means the whole deal, including camber, caster and the lot. I've never even heard of just checking the toe.
Where i live in the UK.. getting your allignment/tracking done, just involves the following...
Front toe settings adjusted
steering wheel centred
Front wheels in a direct line with the rear wheels (thrust line)
Gauges hang on the front wheels and point accross the front of the car, and also down both sides to the rear "flag" guages.. the front reading is the Toe settings and the rear flags are there to get the cars centre line correct (both flags should have the same readout) thus ensuring that the thrust line is correct and the steering wheel is straight.
Steering wheel get clamped straight and the rack gets centred (with engine running in cars with power steering) before anything gets loosened off.
Quote from: "VVT-i"4 wheel allignment = adjusting the TOE settings on the front and the rear, and its ONLY the toe settings that get adjusted.. the rear can only be done if there are track rod ends on the rear of a car.. i.e, if its adjustable, and the MK3 isn't adjustable.
Sorry mate on my MK3 and everyone elses, the back end is adjustable, if you look at the lower tie rod you will see, on the inboard side, a calibrated nut which does adjust your toe angle on the back, you can not alter the camber angle or at least not easily.
I've just had mine checked at SP they use a laser system which hangs on your wheels but they can also check you caster and camber angles by attaching a device to the laser system.
Don't forget to knock off a degree due to you being up north s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "FGRob"I've just had mine checked at SP they use a laser system which hangs on your wheels but they can also check you caster and camber angles by attaching a device to the laser system.
What did you pay SP for that matey s:?: :?: s:?:
Quote from: "heathstimpson"What did you pay SP for that matey s:?: :?: s:?:
I've not paid anything yet, the check was free s:lol: :lol: s:lol: but I'm expect it's going to be about £100 plus for the work that needs doing. s:cry: :cry: s:cry: Normally I think Matt charges for approx 2 hours to have the job done right.
I've got an issue with my rear offside tein suspension, it's currently running with -3 deg camber s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
Just wanted to jump in with a plug for Demon Tweeks - Gazz and I both received stonking service there last week when they turned two very dangerously-handling cars into something slightly better.
Front camber and toe were adjusted, along with rear toe. I don't believe that rear camber is adjustable but on both our cars it came right with the toe adjustment.
58 quid.
Yep spoke to them at the weekend, but decided to go with Matt due to the potential issue with Tein.
Quote from: "spit"Just wanted to jump in with a plug for Demon Tweeks - Gazz and I both received stonking service there last week when they turned two very dangerously-handling cars into something slightly better.
Front camber and toe were adjusted, along with rear toe. I don't believe that rear camber is adjustable but on both our cars it came right with the toe adjustment.
58 quid.
Probably a very long journey for me though s:? :? s:?