Anyone know a cheap place to buy 4-point race harness, the type with a turnbuckle central clasp and not the seatbelt type, i'm thinking of adding them for trackday use in addition to the standard pullover your shoulder type and mounting them off the davids bars
will that work from an angle point of vieww?
try here
m http://www.nfauto.co.uk/download/cataloguejuly2005.pdf (http://www.nfauto.co.uk/download/cataloguejuly2005.pdf) m
page 7
Quote from: "markiii"will that work from an angle point of vieww?
should be ok, see the piccies at the bottom of this guide
m http://www.sparcousa.com/resourceFiles/16.pdf (http://www.sparcousa.com/resourceFiles/16.pdf) m
the angle from the horizontal as the belt exits the back of the seat must be between 5 deg down and 30deg up
cheers for the link BTW s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Quote from: "kanujunkie"Anyone know a cheap place to buy 4-point race harness
Ebay has these for less than $10 s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
A couple of things. Firstly don't buy cheap! This is a safety device for protecting you and yours, pikey is not the way to go. Spend at least £100 on each and stick with a reputable manufacturer like Sabelt, Luke, Willans, Safety Devices, etc.
Don't buy second hand! You don't know the history of them and though they look fine they may not be.
You can get them from most motorsport suppliers. Demon Thieves, Rally Design, etc. You want the type that strap around a roll cage. You will have a LOT of excess on the shoulder harnesses...
Finally, I would seriously not consider fitting them... Harnesses are great in that you should have them done up so tightly that you can't move. The problem is if you go over. Without proper roll protection you are going to be locked upright and for this reason alone I would not fit harnesses to any car that didn't at least have a proper roll over bar that's higher than you in your helmet (should be 2" above your helmet).
I have seen many cars upside down at trackdays, it does happen and you don't have to be going particularly fast to do it. It's why I tend to bang on about cages, bars and safety kit whenever subjects like this come up. Of the ones I've seen the two convertables have been an S2000 and a M3. Both with nothing more than the manufacturers supplied safety kit and helmets, and all four people walked away from them without a scratch.
Quote from: "Tem"Quote from: "kanujunkie"Anyone know a cheap place to buy 4-point race harness
Ebay has these for less than $10 s:shock: :shock: s:shock:
did see them but i'd dimissed them as they looked cheap or used, i do know a bit about harnesses and have propbably fitted more than every other member in the club put together, even a small bit of fluffing on the strap can be a sign of failure and you cant see that from those pictures
Quote from: "juansolo"A couple of things. Firstly don't buy cheap! This is a safety device for protecting you and yours, pikey is not the way to go. Spend at least £100 on each and stick with a reputable manufacturer like Sabelt, Luke, Willans, Safety Devices, etc.
had no intention of this, the ones i've found are £130 from Sabelt
Quote from: "juansolo"Finally, I would seriously not consider fitting them... Harnesses are great in that you should have them done up so tightly that you can't move. The problem is if you go over. Without proper roll protection you are going to be locked upright and for this reason alone I would not fit harnesses to any car that didn't at least have a proper roll over bar that's higher than you in your helmet (should be 2" above your helmet).
surely though if the car had an accident the pretensioners are going to fire and lock the individual upright anyway, as per there design s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "juansolo"I have seen many cars upside down at trackdays, it does happen and you don't have to be going particularly fast to do it. It's why I tend to bang on about cages, bars and safety kit whenever subjects like this come up. Of the ones I've seen the two convertables have been an S2000 and a M3. Both with nothing more than the manufacturers supplied safety kit and helmets, and all four people walked away from them without a scratch.
eeeeeeeeekk s:shock: :shock: s:shock: , done a few track days now and fortunatly never seen anyone upside down yet, plenty in the gravel traps, and i hope it stays that way
Should've said you want a good one, not a cheap one s;) ;) s;) Then again, if you're only using it on top of the stock belt, isn't it more of a "keep me still during drive" than "keep me still in a crash"?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"Quote from: "juansolo"I have seen many cars upside down at trackdays, it does happen and you don't have to be going particularly fast to do it. It's why I tend to bang on about cages, bars and safety kit whenever subjects like this come up. Of the ones I've seen the two convertables have been an S2000 and a M3. Both with nothing more than the manufacturers supplied safety kit and helmets, and all four people walked away from them without a scratch.
eeeeeeeeekk s:shock: :shock: s:shock: , done a few track days now and fortunatly never seen anyone upside down yet, plenty in the gravel traps, and i hope it stays that way
Depends a lot from the track as well. One local track has the track a bit higher than the surrounding area, which is soft sand. Seems to be very easy to flip a car there and happens about every other time. All it needs is sliding sideways out of the track s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"surely though if the car had an accident the pretensioners are going to fire and lock the individual upright anyway, as per there design s:? :? s:?
Indeed. Maybe it's just me on this one and that I've got pictures of what happened to a Westfield with a style bar and harnessess on it that went over. The car was flat from the shoulders up. At least a standard belt will allow a little latteral movement. The guy in the Westfield was not so lucky. I use the picture as a reminder to people with Caterfields as to why you don't take the piss with roll protection for the sake of saving £200 (what a RAC certifield roll bar costs). "oh but it's ugly and it's only used on the road", well that one was only used on the road and I'd rather have an ugly bar than spinal injuries.
As for the Mr2. I don't know. How much faith do you put in the windscreen to take the weight of the car? Maybe I'm just paranoid about it?
Quote from: "kanujunkie"Quote from: "juansolo"I have seen many cars upside down at trackdays, it does happen and you don't have to be going particularly fast to do it. It's why I tend to bang on about cages, bars and safety kit whenever subjects like this come up. Of the ones I've seen the two convertables have been an S2000 and a M3. Both with nothing more than the manufacturers supplied safety kit and helmets, and all four people walked away from them without a scratch.
eeeeeeeeekk s:shock: :shock: s:shock: , done a few track days now and fortunatly never seen anyone upside down yet, plenty in the gravel traps, and i hope it stays that way
It happens and usually in the most unexpected ways. The S2k went over at almost walking pace. The blokey lost it, tankslapped, hit the grass sideways, and plopped onto it's roof in the most gracefull manner. It was surreal. The ground around Elvington is very marshy and as is always said in the briefings, if you're going to leave a circuit (and this goes for any circuit) go off straight. You might damage the front of your car but that's where all the impact protection is and it's better than being on your roof.
The M3 was someone driving way beyond thier ability in a part of the track with no runoff. That went over a few times. Very impressed with the rollover protection in that considering the crash!
The final notable one was someone on slicks on a very hot day in Anglesey. Again I bang on about using slicks on road cars and this is why. Hot slicks + hot track = massive, massive grip. He hit a kerb and touring car stylie he went up on two wheels, only he kept going. The driver was injured in this one (broken neck). This is also why a lot of trackday companies now will not let you run slicks without certified roll over protection or in a road car, a full cage.
There have been a couple of others...
Motorsport is dangerous.
Quote from: "juansolo"Motorsport is dangerous.
amen to that s:? :? s:? i'm sure weve all seen the mess people get into on the roads let alone when they push it on a trackday
Thanx for the advice boss s:D :D s:D
s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:D :D s:D
Like this s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic. ... 790#118790 (http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=118790#118790) m
Who was it that didn't believe me that the A-Frame would break in a crash.
This may be a stupid point that been subtley covered in earlier posts without saying the exact words that i'm about to, but I haven't seen whether you've said you're planning on using the 4-point in addition to the stock seatbelt or instead of, so i'll say em anyway.
*bloody white wine, did that make ANY sense!?!? s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: *
I always thought that 'roll' bars in the MR2 were purely cosmetic. I know there are a couple of people who have gone the whole hog and fitted structural ones, but as far as I was aware the Davids ones in particular were purely cosmetic, in which case, if you were in a front on crash, and your body suddenly weighed the equivalent of an elevant (which is a very realistic approximation, even at 'moderate' speeds), then the davids bars are just gonna buckle straight away and you'll be heading towards the windscreen faster than a fast thing!?!?
Of course, if you're planning on using the harness in addition to the stock belt, then apologies, ignore me!
Quote from: "kanujunkie"in addition to the standard pullover your shoulder type
In the first post.
Pass the white wine! s:D :D s:D
Simon
yep, keeping the stock ones for MOT purposes and 4-points for track days, but i'm not sure what to do now, gonna have to give this some thought. I took the davids bars in today to get them repositioned and welded so i'll have a rethink once there refitted s:? :? s:?
Quote from: "SimonC_Here"Quote from: "kanujunkie"in addition to the standard pullover your shoulder type
In the first post.
Pass the white wine! s:D :D s:D
Simon
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
*goes to look for paracetamol. slowly.*
Let me know how much that costs please Stu I still havent resolved my Bars issues either.
Phil.
s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
Quote from: "philster_d"Let me know how much that costs please Stu I still havent resolved my Bars issues either.
Phil.
they were talking about a max of £90-100, but this isn't a cheap and nasty welders, they normally do aero mig/tig welding, so the job should be top notch
so what exactly are you having adjusted?
sorry, phil new what i was talking about so i didn't mention it s:oops: :oops: s:oops:
i'm haveing the hoops on the davids bars moved forward by 4mm, not much but enough to clear the softop from rubbing a hole in itself, i'm also haveing the transportation joint strengthened and welded up.
so they are cutting teh hoops off the main bar and weling them back 4mm further forward?
will teh trim panels still fit?
Quote from: "markiii"so they are cutting the hoops off the main bar and welding them back 4mm further forward?
will the trim panels still fit?
yes to the cutting bit and welding bit and no to the panels fitting, i'm going to fibre glass them up to make them a bit stronger and prevent anymore cracking, then cut and refit them before drilling them for harness eyebolts
you need to take moulds stu
this could be a popular mod
Quote from: "markiii"you need to take moulds stu
this could be a popular mod
wilco, bin bags and squirty foam at dawn then!
well i finally got all the bits together to fit the harness's, at the mo only the drivers is done but this is one mod i can really recomend, you feel every little movement the car makes, every twitch its great s:D :D s:D far more feedback thru the chassis than i've ever felt before.
so how to fit them, for a start you need a set of davids bars, the one piece ones and not the 2 section ones, although the 2 section ones can be welded. Next you need to replace the vertically mounted bolts as the hole they pass thru is a lot larger than the bolt and would allow movement in the event of a crash (i can get these bolts if anyone wants them). Next i took out the seat and disconnected the origional seatbelt mount. The eybolts that come with harness's will screw straight into the origional seatbelt mount point but on the inboard rear footing for the seat the screw thread is too small to use. So a 7/16UNF tap is required, once thats run thru the eyebolt can be used to bolt the seat back in. I've put both eyebolts back in with threadlocker as a saftey measure but both the seat and eyebolts are solid anyway. all that leaves is to fit the harness's. I've used Sabelt harness's that are specified for use on harness bars, the shoulder sections wrap around the bars and go through a metal clip. The other 2 lap sections just clip onto the new mount points. So far the only problem is that one of the harness adjusters gets caught down the side of the seat, but its not that bad so i'll live with it.
Piccies please! s:D :D s:D
Guess I shouldn't have sold my ones now...
Quote from: "Ekona"Piccies please! s:D :D s:D
i'll take some after i've fitted the passenger one, i've not re-designed the covers yet and wont have time till after anglesey though
Sod you then, I'll have to grab a few snaps at the track. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Excellent work Stu. Now my car is basically a track car, I'm very tempted to sell my stock leather seats, buy some Cobra's and fit harnesses. I'll have a good look at yours when I next see it.
Quote from: "Ekona"Sod you then, I'll have to grab a few snaps at the track. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted: s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
patience me lad, patience s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
i'll take em tomorrow
Quote from: "Slacey"Excellent work Stu. Now my car is basically a track car, I'm very tempted to sell my stock leather seats, buy some Cobra's and fit harnesses. I'll have a good look at yours when I next see it.
looks like there could be one problem with keeping the stock seats, the adjustment buckle on the left side is catching on the centre console when you move the seat, its fine for me, just a problem when Ele moves the seat
of course this isn't a problem if you replace the seats. BTW theres several mounting points for seats under the carpet, all you'd need to do is get some rivnuts installed
what are the other seat options ?
Quote from: "philster_d"what are the other seat options ?
take your pic, sparco corboeu rage etc etc, the bolting options are plates on the outboard side but the iboard side will most likely need customising. Were talking plate welding or some special bracket to reuse the stock point
here you go Dan. Second harness took about 30mins to fit, better than the 1/2 day yesterday s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/harness1.jpg)
this is the centre console hole that needs tapping out to 7/16UNF
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/harness2.jpg)
and the standard harness bolt re-attached with an eyebolt
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/harness3.jpg)
(http://www.stuandele.co.uk/mr2roc/harness4.jpg)
Quote from: "Slacey"....I'm very tempted to sell my stock leather seats......
Excellent idea. Let me know if you are selling. I want leather s:) :) s:)
So what do you do for the MOT stu? do you leave the harness in place or remove it for the MOT? and do you use these on the road now?
Stu, didn't read the whole thread properly enough, but I take it that the hookup angle for the harness from David's bar is well within the required range for the system to function properly?
Have you considered what will happen, if you get into accident?
I mean the stock seats aren't meant for that sort of harness. They might not be able to handle the forces. You might snap the seats...or your spine. s:? :? s:?
yes the origional harness's are still there for MOT purposes and yes it does meet all the requirements as far as the entry and exit angles which i got from sparco's website
m http://www.sparcousa.com/resourceFiles/16.pdf (http://www.sparcousa.com/resourceFiles/16.pdf) m
as far as fitment goes i had to retap the threads on the inboard side of the seat bolt down point to the same size as a standard harness eyebolt, the eyebolt then holds the seat in place. The outboard harness point is the standard seatbelt point, take the bolt out and put an eyebolt in, no tapping as its the right size already. The shoulder ones are just looped around the Davids bars which welded back to single piece bars for reinforcement. Last job is the bolt down point for the Davids bar. The standard bolt is like wiggling your finger around in a tunnel so you'll need to change them to a more tolerance fit for safety
Quote from: "Tem"Have you considered what will happen, if you get into accident?
I mean the stock seats aren't meant for that sort of harness. They might not be able to handle the forces. You might snap the seats...or your spine. s:? :? s:?
remember the stock seat has to be able to take the force of the pretensioners in an accident so they shouldn't be takeing any more force than there origional design. Personally i dont have an issue with it from an engineering point of view. I'll take a photo one day of an aircraft seat, they're a hell of a lot flimsier than our seats with the seatbase on most boeings only being made of cloth suspended between 2 rails.