Unichip vs Sports Exhaust

[Anonymous]

Very true. It's just easier to always write 'turbo' than 'turbo/supercharger/2ZZ' though  s;) s;)

[Anonymous]

Bling!!!  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Very nice indeed Rob. Can't wait to see it in the flesh.

Did you use longer studs to cope with that 10mm flange, or do the stock studs just about manage it?

(BTW, Kevin @ Zero got back to me today with a few suggestions to add to the list  s8) s8)  )

Thanks all - well pleased.

Every thing is stock Ste, had to do a bit of adjustment between the down pipe and manifold and that was it.

I spoke to Kev on Friday - he's a pretty decent guy I did explain to him your problem   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Rob

[ChrisGB]

As for going turbo, £3500 for conversion, a further £1000 on brakes, braces and chassis mods to tie it all down? Ages off the road for fitting and setup. Gearbox wont last too long and  extra engine load is high.

 s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Honestly, you should really do your research a little more thoroughly.

Gearbox problems?  Considering people have put 400bhp through an (allegedly) standard transmission, I don't think 250ish is going to tax it too hard, do you?

I have read of standard cars going noisy in the gearbox area on here and SC, so pardon me for being apprehensive. You can probably put 400bhp through it as well, but as with all things tuned more go = shorter life. Met a guy with a 450bhp 200SX recently. Was on his 6th gearbox:shock:

Brakes?  The JGTC cars ran standard disks and calipers, so why would you need to change them - or are you the next Schumacher?

Would need tochange tham more often. The standard stoppers seem excellent, but no idea how quick they would wear given the extra performance if it was used as it was meant to be.

Braces and chassis mods?  You should be doing those anyway.

Will be. Got to get measuring for mid breastplate. Any of the front strut tower braces allow me to keep the plastic intact?

Ages off the road for fitting?  Interesting - last time I checked the entire turbo kit could be fitted in a week off work by amateur mechanics.  I'm sure someone with your Formula 1 experience can fit it in a weekend..

Never did mechanic work in F1, was in engine management at the clean end, but probably could yes. Then it has to be set up and fettled. I have no facilities for this. Just know that more modded car = more time investment. I am time poor.

I'd call comments like those in your last paragraph nothing more than FUD - Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.  Certainly not things that help everyone, as you claim to be doing with your voluminous tomes.

Years of experience in things engineering have taught me that nothing is as simple as it first looks and there is no such thing as a free lunch. Move stuff out of its operating window and it can go very well. It can also go very wrong. Sure I have read threads on here of turbo install setup issues. Not up for the (slight) risk myself but fully understand why others would. I personally would prefer N/A anyway in this car, so would go 2zz, but really  dont want to mess about with it that much.

As for helping people, well I could just save myself £110 each stage and dyno at the end, then anyone else reading the forums from limited MR2 experience could stay as clueless as me. Really, just trying to crystallize my thoughts to get the mods right and when I do, will feed back good objective info on what did what. Thought it a fair trade myself.

Any thoughts on the other content of the post?

Chris

[markiii]

droping teh main cat without completely redesigning teh characteristics of teh manifold to get teh best from it, such as done by PPE with tehre 4-1 where torque remains teh same with power up at teh top end, has been proven to cause a drop out in teh mid range performance due to teh overall system now being imbalanced.

None of teh 4-2 replacement manifolds have been designed with teh absence of a main cat in mind.

therefore teh only way to restore teh lost midrange is to have teh ability to tweek teh ecu map to compensate.

a fully opimised exhaust design without teh main cat, and used in conjunction with engine management would be the optimal end goal.

[ChrisGB]

Well, I can't help but admire your enthusiasm and attention to detail in chasing your goals, so I'll submit to that. However, just a few points:

There are similarities between analytical and anal I suppose, but I do like to get things right. Just having a mare trying to make sense of a large amount of information.

Stock brakes are fine for a turbo, and you should be looking at strengthening the chassis before any power mods IMHO (N/A or turbo).

I want to get some stiffening into the car but dont want to change its genral behaviour too much. My belief is Toyota left it flexible for a reason but cant figure out what. Maybe more on limit friendliness at the expense of a lower limit? I reckon breastplate and front strut brace as first moves. Do you know any front strut praces that allow the underbonnet plastics to stay (mostly) intact?

My point isn't that you should be going for a turbo instead of chucking money at an N/A setup, rather that you're chasing a pointless goal. N/A the MR2 is never going to be/feel rapid point-to-point, and is never going to feel like it unless you slap said turbo on there.

I am not trying to chase a pointless goal, more to optimise what is there. I was originally just going to do the Che manifold to rid myself of the precats. The dyno day figures showed improvement by running better exhaust with manifold. I was going to have a special knocked up but the Che setup seemed to suit. Got 6bhp from it, so cannot complain. People keep telling me Unichip, so thought I would do some research there hence the questions.

It's much better to spend your cash making the most of the handling if you're staying N/A, and as Mark has said above if you remove the cat you're going to murder mid-range torque and you'll actually end up with a much less drivable car.

As above regarding handling. As for the decat pipe, I would only do that if going for a chip with it as post above. Anyone know what needs tweaking? Fuel, overlap, timing, spark?

If chasing every last single HP at the expense of a decent drive is your thing, then I don't really think a VXR220 or a Boxster S would really suit you either.

I dont see where you get the idea I am into that from? If I wanted something fast I could have bought some seriously quick things on my budget (originally £25K). I considered and test drove, in no particular order TVR Cerbera and Tuscan, Vauxhall Monaro, Jag XJR, Toyota Supra TT, Honda NSX, Boxter and the VX220 Turbo. Even looked at W12 Phaeton! In all honesty, the fastest cars there were a financial nightmare if I wanted to use them regularly. The missus did not like the interior (or lack thereof) of the VXR. Never looked at Lotus, too scared of parts and labour costs and no  K series fan anyway. I drove a '2 on a whim and it was a revelation. Not fast, but really nicely communicative, responsive and just so much fun. Unfortunately (because of my budget), it was also perfect for my budget. I can run it all the time, never worry about insurance, servicing, fuel, reliability, temprementality, just get in, go and smile. This is why I wnat to keep mods moderate. I want it to be pretty much as it is. A bit more go will just add a little to the fun factor. Stiffer shell will be welcome and should I not like the effect, a few bolts and it is back to stock.

Money no object, I would have had the NSX. Glad I did not find a decent one though as thinking about it, I know I would have no more fun in it than the '2. I like the way it keeps me on my toes when pushing on, but does not feel lethal in the way the Tuscan did. The NSX would cost a fortune to run if I did 10K a year in it and it is not the sort of car you just service at Corolla costs.

Chris

[ChrisGB]

droping the main cat without completely redesigning the characteristics of the manifold to get the best from it, such as done by PPE with tehre 4-1 where torque remains the same with power up at the top end, has been proven to cause a drop out in the mid range performance due to the overall system now being imbalanced.

None of the 4-2 replacement manifolds have been designed with the absence of a main cat in mind.

therefore the only way to restore the lost midrange is to have the ability to tweek the ecu map to compensate.

a fully opimised exhaust design without the main cat, and used in conjunction with engine management would be the optimal end goal.

That does make good sense. I read that TRD do a sports cat which is a halfway house that possibly retains enough of the original cars properties to not need mapping.

The standard cars exhaust system in theory stops at the precats, so only the primaries are of any real consequence. The Che or TRD manifolds introduce effective secondaries and this is where they probably gain scavenging over the stock system. The main cat is really the next obstacle and it is somthing I had not considered that the 4>2>1 would not work with no main cat. Thanks for the heads up on that. Mind, the SP decat pipe used with FGRobs stock manifold gutted seemed to do OK with 138lb/ft and 153bhp when a chip was fitted.

I think for now that I will just get the Che manifold fitted then keep an eye open for a Unichip or Emanage going cheap somewhere for future playing. It is just a bit too easy to get carried away when contemplting what to do on the car. Do I really need to spend all that dosh for a relatively small power hike?

I really need to get under the car and measure up those hole centres. Looking at available braces / breastplates, it seems they all have obround holes in them for the bolts. I take it not all floorpans are the same. I ask as I may well make the underfloor breastplate a commercially availble item if mine works out OK.

Chris

[filcee]

I want to get some stiffening into the car but dont want to change its genral behaviour too much. My belief is Toyota left it flexible for a reason but cant figure out what. Maybe more on limit friendliness at the expense of a lower limit?

Bearing in mind I am not that good a driver, and my '2 has the benefit/drawback

• of TC and VSC ... it's also bone stock ...

In my opinion, you're exactly right about the reason for flexibility.  In my experience the '2 has a tendency to provide early feedback that suggests everything is about to go horribly wrong.  I can recall many moments when I got the distinct impression that the whole car was about to rotate around a point somewhere near my left shoulder. This is normally when pressing on without thinking too hard (if at all) about what I'm doing.  Lots of people have been following me when I've had these little moments in the driving seat, but no-one has commented on me being particularly out of shape in the middle of a corner.

The conclusion I would draw from this is that the car is set up in such a way that you have time to make a decision on the feedback you are getting, rather than having a "get feedback, go straight to site of accident, do not pass go, do not collect £200" type setup.  If I were to provide a reason for this, then my guess would be that Toyota think this is better for an average driver (like me) - it provides that "I'm really driving experience" without requiring "real driver" levels of experience - whereas having a more 'stiff' or 'solid' setup would be less forgiving on the limit when an average driver makes or is forced into making an everyday mistake.

• delete as you see fit  s;-) ;-) s;-)

[markiii]

agreed, however the distinct disadvantage is that it can cause you to react to something that is nowhere near as bad as it feels.

or shoudl I say overeact. had some interesting fishtailing moments when I first got it  that were lucky not to put me a hedge

[rtbiscuit]

when it comes to bracing, i'm pretty sure that when the toyota approved TTE turbo is fitted there is a certain amount of extra braving that has to be fitted.

this would suggest that toyota believed the vehicle needed more bracing.

also if i'm correct toyota updated their bracing of the 2 from 2002 upwards. the facelift had alot more bracing. and i think (correct me if i'm wrong) there were other suttle changes made each year till 2006.

...

chris when i see you on wednesday you can have a look at my FSB. it has had the plastic cut into slightly in order to accomadate the new mounts. and i'm pretty sure there are no FSB's that will allow you to keep the bin lid in the front.

[markiii]

spot on rich.

teh cynic in me suggest that teh designed teh roadster then reverse engineered until it was just good enough to beat teh mx5 back in 99, knowing that Mazda would respond by improving it.

then they added bits back over it's life to put in back in front.

certauinly many of teh mounting points existed from 1999 onward even though nothing was fitted.

[ChrisGB]

I can see the possibility that Toyota made the car more flexible to provide a softer edged limit particularly on bumpy corners. Something I have noticed is that on certain corners, the bumps at the front cause the back to let go at the same time so the whole car moves sideways together. I would imagine that if the car were stiff enough, the front would step out while the back remained pinned, then the back would step out to match while the front was pinned. I can see inexperienced drivers finding this very disconcerting.

Another possibility is that the engineers made it rigid, then the bean counters said "how much of this can we leave out?"

Last and IMO most likely, some improvements to the rigidity in 2004 onward cars may come from improving crash / impact resistance.

Does removing the front bin lid let water into the bin? I keep the toolkit in there at the moment and would not fancy a rusty one!

Chris

[rtbiscuit]

as far as i know no water gets in. i put my lap top in there occassionally when i travel home from work.

[Anonymous]

No water ever got in mine in the 2.5 years I had it off.

[ChrisGB]

Excellent, strut brace it is then. What do we recommend?

Chris

[rtbiscuit]

as you will already know search is your friend.

you will find as with most things on this site, things come down to personal preference, or what you can afford at the time in the private sales section   s:D s:D  

from what i gather the main culprits for FSB's are:

c-one
TRD
cusco

[Anonymous]

Excellent, strut brace it is then. What do we recommend?

Chris

whatevers the cheapest and most available   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

TBH i think whichever you get they do the same job! i carnt say ive ever seen bad reviews for any FSB its just down to what you think looks the best   s8) s8)

[Anonymous]

If you fit a Cusco top brace you can still fit the bin lid, you just up-clip it and off it comes.

I brought mine from Japan for about £100, you can get the same thing from SP for a bit more if you don't want to bother to import.

That's the only brace I have fitted, if I was going for further bracing I would use the TTE cross brace, but I think my car is to new to have it fiited - TTE only reccommend it for cars built before Sept 2004.

I started with the suspension first, including the brace, got that to what I liked - full Tein Superstreets with EDFC plus all the anti-roll bar linkage up-grades, then up-graded the brake lines to Stainless Steel, then and only then moved on to the engine, that's the way I've done it - slow but sure.

Rob

[Anonymous]

If you fit a Cusco top brace you can still fit the bin lid, you just up-clip it and off it comes.

thats if he uses the bin! ive had the car 2 years now and still not used the bin   s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[Anonymous]

I've only got my spare in it.  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[heathstimpson]

If you fit a Cusco top brace you can still fit the bin lid, you just up-clip it and off it comes.

I brought mine from Japan for about £100, you can get the same thing from SP for a bit more if you don't want to bother to import.

That's the only brace I have fitted, if I was going for further bracing I would use the TTE cross brace, but I think my car is to new to have it fiited - TTE only reccommend it for cars built before Sept 2004.

I started with the suspension first, including the brace, got that to what I liked - full Tein Superstreets with EDFC plus all the anti-roll bar linkage up-grades, then up-graded the brake lines to Stainless Steel, then and only then moved on to the engine, that's the way I've done it - slow but sure.

Rob

I have Cusco strut braces front and rear and have found the front one especially makes a lot of difference. I leave the bin lid on and pull of the back clips as mentioned when I want access  s:wink: :wink: s:wink: