Additional cooling

MRMike · August 27, 2004, 21:47

My brother has just recently removed his Piper induction system, and was throwing it away, so I nabbed it with visions of using the new inlet tract to further cooling in the engine bay. Anyways to cut a long story short it fit great in the driver side apperture. I now have a tract running straight from the inlet to the engine bay.

Also I have a handheld steamer which i use to clean my alloys and engine bay, which I used to see the difference in the direction of air between standard, and with the inlet tract. There was a massive difference between the two. With the tract in place the flow and direction of steam(air) was significantly enhanced. Without the tract in place there didn't seem to be a great deal of steam moving into the engine bay.

I angled it so that it focusses on the rear vents, I think that way it will aid hot air leaving the engine bay which will in turn aid the dissapation of heat in the engine bay. Well without any knowlege about thermodynamics i think that's what will happen, if anyone has any other thoughts let me know!

I should have my Blitz R- Vit soon so I'll post if it does make a difference to inlet temps.

Anonymous · August 28, 2004, 04:31

Aren't you going to get the same amount of airflow through the side vent with and without a tract within it? You can direct it with the tract, but I don't see how doing this on the right side will have any beneficial effect.

SteveJ · August 28, 2004, 07:50

The side VENT is so called because it is actually a LOW pressure area when the car is moving, with air flowing OUT of it at most speeds.

Unless you extend the back edge of the vent out into the air flow along the car you will not get any cooling effect.

*This topic has been covered repeatedly on here with the same conclusions - try using the

button*

Anonymous · August 28, 2004, 08:19

Having actually monitored these temps via both the r-vit and a temp sensor just before the plenum (only really relevant for FI) I have noted the following:-

when you get the r-vit in place you will normally see decreased temps at the MAF at speed due to colder air entering through the side vents, you will however notice that temps increase slightly at around the 65-75 mark due it appears to a low pressure area in reality sucking air from the engine bay and therefore pulling existing hot air towards the filter etc.

The rest of the time tho you will get a cooling effect due to colder air entering at this point.

IMHO you would get a more beneficial effect if you could further direct the cold air towards your filter expecially as you have the blitz rather than a closed oem type.

There was someone in the US who did this and took the pipe into a sealed box around the filter, similar to my set up, but I dont have the extra pipe part.

Once you get the R-Vit you will get to know the temps at different times etc

Nice to see someone trying something a little different matey s:D

s:D

GSB · August 28, 2004, 11:16

Quote from: "SteveJ"The side VENT is so called because it is actually a LOW pressure area when the car is moving, with air flowing OUT of it at most speeds.

Unless you extend the back edge of the vent out into the air flow along the car you will not get any cooling effect.

*This topic has been covered repeatedly on here with the same conclusions - try using the button*

I for one am not entirely convinced that this is true. For my liking its to much of a blanket statement for it to be anything other than speculatation or a theory based upon limited observation... It may be right, but theres way to much dirt and crap getting into my engine bay via the vents for me to believe it without questioning its validity. One day I'll get around to hooking up my data logger and differential pressure calibration equipment to the car and get some definitive results on the matter, as I think that the airflow in the vents will vary in flow and direction in relation to vehicle speed and the engines demands for intake air... Perry's observations would seem to support this hypothesis.

In the meantime, well done to anyone else who's willing to experiment and save me the bother of filling my car with enough instrumentation to monitor a moonshot...

MRMike · August 28, 2004, 13:03

Quote from: "Beanie"Aren't you going to get the same amount of airflow through the side vent with and without a tract within it? You can direct it with the tract, but I don't see how doing this on the right side will have any beneficial effect.

Probably, but it's the direction that was more important to this thing having any minute gains in cooling. If the low pressure idea is correct, standard there shuoldn't be any air flow.

Quote from: "SteveJ"The side VENT is so called because it is actually a LOW pressure area when the car is moving, with air flowing OUT of it at most speeds.

Unless you extend the back edge of the vent out into the air flow along the car you will not get any cooling effect.

*This topic has been covered repeatedly on here with the same conclusions - try using the button

TBO honest Steve I did do a search, do i know about the low pressure area which has previously been noted, yes I do. Has an inlet tract been tested in the drivers side? not that I know of. But if i'm wrong I'll stick a 'must search harder sticker to my monitor'

Quote from: "perry190"IMHO you would get a more beneficial effect if you could further direct the cold air towards your filter expecially as you have the blitz rather than a closed oem type.

I have an OEM filter housing Perry, just the element. So there was nowhere else to direct it that would have any possible impact other than the rear vents. Thanks for your other thoughts ! I'll give you a shout when I get the R-Vit

Quote from: "GSB"I for one am not entirely convinced that this is true

Me either, until I get some logging equipment i'm merely speculating. This morning I went out and attached a ping pong ball to a piece of fishing line inside the tract. The only way for it to come out qould be through airflow through the tract. Anyways went on a run at about 80mph and sure if enough Senor Ping pong ball was hanging engine side on my return. Now unless there is significant airflow through this tube I don't see how the ball could exit the (uphill) tract.

Anyways I'm happy with it for the time being, until I prove conclusively it doesn't do anything, and for free it's worth experimenting with!

Anonymous · August 28, 2004, 15:26

Let's just talk about the left side vent and assume the right side is basically the same. I can believe the hypothesis that airflow through side vent reverses above some (moderately high) speed. There is no doubt in my mind that at least some of the time, cooler air is coming in. I had a flexible hose with one end stuffed way up in the vent (took the vent off, crammed hose end in there as far as it would go, put back on) and the other end right up against my air filter (custom intake design, similar to Pelican Racing). I could not detect a difference in performance from this, nor any difference in intake air temp (monitoring via FC Commander). Note: there may be some temp difference, but nothing jumped out at me... your test procedure would have to involve moving the hose end, going back up to speed X for duration Y. However, it was obvious that air was coming IN from the vent at some speeds because the part of the filter right next to the hose end was noticeably dirty after a month or two of this. I posted a picture of that somewhere. Trust me.

I also mounted a bilge blower in there, directing 240CFM (a healthy amount of air, but less than you might be able to get if the back of the side vent had a big extension on it) right at the air filter. I had a tube on the bilge blower so it would draw air from the left side vent and also tried it drawing air from just behind the firewall, low to the ground. I moved the end that air is expelled from around and found that you don't want air going right at the filter. Results: engine doesn't idle well at all, nor run as smoothly at normal driving range RPMs. Turbulence is the culprit. The air filter (I'm talking about a conical or cylindrical type) should be sitting in an area that is relatively still. You can get away with something that deviates from that at RPMs above, say, 2500, because there is stronger flow through the intake tube, but the engine is going to run a little rougher.

My conclusions from these and other experiments are:

- There is not a huge amount of airflow in the side vent area.
- Most cooling benefit comes from air entering under the car and through slots in decklid (at least with drip pan and "diaper" removed)... and this is about as good as it is going to get ON THE HIGHWAY. Even on a hot day, you can see intake air temps not that far off from ambient outside air temp when you are going at highway speeds. By not that far off, I mean maybe 10-20 degrees F. (Someone on spyderchat speculated 50F! Maybe if you were going above 100MPH for a long time it would be 30F... just a guess.)
- The only significant area for improvement in cooling intake air temp (normally aspirated) beyond what I have done already (some of which is not mentioned in this post) would be stop-and-go traffic ("city driving"), where you can see intake air temp climb up quite a bit, whether you have stock, AEM, Pelican Racing, mine, or probably anyone else's intake. The engine is continuously radiating heat and without the *significant* airflow through the engine bay that you get at speed (and not really from side vents), that heat is going to find its way into the intake air.

---

EDIT: Of course, since I've done all these other cooling things (removing "diaper", "drip pan", "tool tray" (heat shield for muffler)), I have different airflow through my engine bay than stock. However, I believe the side vents are not doing a whole heck of a lot. Not as much as I would want. I actually thought about making a plexiglass scoop for the side vent. I just don't have time for that right now. How to: make pattern out of stiff paper, transfer to plexiglass, cut plexiglass, heat in oven, warp.

Anonymous · August 28, 2004, 15:57

Remember: Removing those things is *free* and drops a little bit of weight to boot.

Blower, as I had it before, is good for cooling intake tract right after starting engine after car has been sitting (turned off) for under an hour or so. I've taken out the blower and will reinstall it in left side body panel where the long flexible hose is to blow air on the air filter back there when using "street" configuration of my Modular Intake.

Anonymous · August 30, 2004, 11:06

I've recently gone a slightly different route to cooling for the turbo etc.

I've adapted the engine lid s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

I've added additonal cooling areas through mesh and also moulded in some vents in an attempt to get cold air to both the filter, turbo piping and aquamist resovoir.

an altered rain guard will still be in place albeit mostly mesh and the mesh in place of the brake light is shaped under neath to run any water away for electrics etc.

still very much in development and will change more before completion I'm sure. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

remains to be seen if this has much effect and theres still a lot of rubbing down etc to do before it can be sprayed and on the car with the TRD wing

Anonymous · August 30, 2004, 11:23

heres a pic with the previously adapted rain guard in place along with the wing, not a good piccy but give a better overal idea (rain guard will be changing)

Jap GT300 · August 30, 2004, 11:28

Is that my old boot lid s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Anonymous · August 30, 2004, 11:32

Thats the one matey ! s:D

s:D side louvres came about because the holes where the wing had been previously fitted were now raised areas, so they have been cut out and replaced with the louvres (sierra RS500)

still have my old engine cover of course for when I eventually sell the car, or I may stay with the oem cover during the winter months in the chargecooler does its work properly

Anonymous · August 30, 2004, 12:27

That's a gutsy thing to do. I like the ones added on the sides better than the additional cutouts down the middle, although I have to say that this is because I like the stock hood slots quite a bit. Are you going to add scoops on top of the added louvers?

Anonymous · August 30, 2004, 12:34

wasnt planning to as in all honesty I'm not 100% sure how much they are going to increase the air flow until their on the car. the centre venting was originally going to be covered with a raised scoop varis style but I've been having trouble sourcing the copy version here in the UK at present.

aaronjb · August 30, 2004, 13:37

I seem to remember reading that the boot lid area is in a low-pressure area generally anyway - so I think you're more likely to get air sucked out of those vents (which is a shame, as then they're rather pointing in the wrong direction s:)

s:) )..

Still, lots o' holes! s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Wouldn't work on many cars - but I should think it'll go quite nicely with everything else on your car Perry s:)

s:)

Anonymous · August 30, 2004, 14:02

cheers matey s:)

s:)

i've opened up the actual apetures at the base of each louvre, so if that is the case hot air should get out just as easily. plus they should help when stationary when the engine bay is getting mega hot due to the turbo

Anonymous · August 30, 2004, 18:14

Did you check with TOMS? Another idea is a hood scoop for another car or a generic one from eBay. It would have to stand up to the heat. Heat from engine bay turned the leather straps for my Classic Carrier into beef jerky.

Anonymous · August 30, 2004, 18:40

had the toms firstly and then the bomex ones on my mk 2, but that ofcourse wasnt a soft top. will stick with my original design and see how it goes s:)

s:)