My Woodsport V6 conversion.

Jiff Lemon · November 8, 2015, 20:18

Quote from: "Topdownman"The rear subframe has been trimmed a lot more than others I have seen. I guess the rear bracing and drip plate? have been removed because the new engine is much taller and there is no room for them to fit now.

Can I feel it? I would say yes I can, its a bit like the difference when you fit a mid brace only its possibly more noticeable and going the wrong way this time! I am not sure if there is a way of adding extra bracing on the rear, I would certainly consider adding some if anyone has any ideas?

Just my 2p, rear strutbrace adds nothing - more show than go. You can't expect to swap the engine for something completely different and expect the car to "feel" the same. Not saying it's a bad thing, just that it's time to re-learn the car.

tomaky · November 8, 2015, 20:35

Just noticed my blue is also in that pic jez s;)

s;)

MR TWO · November 9, 2015, 15:25

OK I've had a look from the top and my subframe has a relatively small section removed. In the affected area the subframe has been welded up to maintain the solidity with plates.

I have a pic but no idea how to post it, if anyone wants to see it, send a pm with an email!

tomaky · November 9, 2015, 16:40

FB me it Jez ill sort it.

1979scotte · November 9, 2015, 17:22

1979scotte · November 9, 2015, 17:25

Job jobbed

Topdownman · November 9, 2015, 17:50

Thanks for going to all that trouble to get the picture up guys!

It looks nice and minimal.

I have been wondering though if the bottom line is the size of the narrowest piece in the subframe that remains? ie the weakest link?

tomaky · November 9, 2015, 18:46

The narrowest should be the gearbox but it looks like they have cut for the gearbox ands instead of boxing they have could along the majority of the subframe which made doing the exhaust easy peasy. Possibly laziness id be hoping they would put that right if it were my car.

ayresyboy · November 9, 2015, 19:17

Quote from: "tomaky"The narrowest should be the gearbox but it looks like they have cut for the gearbox ands instead of boxing they have could along the majority of the subframe which made doing the exhaust easy peasy. Possibly laziness id be hoping they would put that right if it were my car.

Agreed

loadswine · November 9, 2015, 20:20

This was the very first one done, my old red one. Shown from underneath. It was a heavier installation than the 1MZs.

To be honest, I'm not sure if there is any issue. Certainly, with timber joists in houses, if you notch 50mm depth out of a 150x50, it effectively becomes a 100x50, no matter how long the notch actually is. A little over simplified and steel behaves a little differently to timber anyway.

StuC · November 9, 2015, 20:24

On the basis that toyota tried to make the car as light as possible. If there was that much extra section in there I am sure it would have been optimised. That makes me believe it is needed and anything less is a sliding scale of compromise.
In Simon's case it was the amount that was missing!

Would be interested to know how your original one is holding up Nige.

1979scotte · November 9, 2015, 21:08

Quote from: "ayresyboy"
Quote from: "tomaky"The narrowest should be the gearbox but it looks like they have cut for the gearbox ands instead of boxing they have could along the majority of the subframe which made doing the exhaust easy peasy. Possibly laziness id be hoping they would put that right if it were my car.
Agreed

Me too.
Sorry. s:flame: :flame: s:flame:

Lee H · November 9, 2015, 21:09

Mine, albeit I didn't have to chop for exhaust.

loadswine · November 9, 2015, 21:23

Stu, my old one is fine, but it has been modified some more, I think, as it now has a 2GR in there. I am guessing the E153 box needs a bit more clearance than the S54 box, I had.

People obviously have their views on what this particular item should look like, post modification. One thing to remember though, engine swaps like these are major modifications and the results are not going to look oem for all components.
I wonder if anyone has asked the modifier a question on this at all?

vinp182 · November 10, 2015, 11:53

Quote from: "1979scotte"
Quote from: "ayresyboy"
Quote from: "tomaky"The narrowest should be the gearbox but it looks like they have cut for the gearbox ands instead of boxing they have could along the majority of the subframe which made doing the exhaust easy peasy. Possibly laziness id be hoping they would put that right if it were my car.
Agreed

Me too.
Sorry. s:flame: :flame: s:flame:

Me three, But I def give the builder a call with my concerns

Also I don't agree with the strut brace does nothing comment.. I doubt it would be there from factory if it wasn't doing anything.. I'd imagine it would be more necessary once you add a heavier lump with twice the power and 4 times the torque of a 1zz but again I'd ask the builder for peace of mind as there must be rules and regs to work to when doing custom chasis mods for customers

tomaky · November 10, 2015, 12:25

Quote from: "loadswine"Stu, my old one is fine, but it has been modified some more, I think, as it now has a 2GR in there. I am guessing the E153 box needs a bit more clearance than the S54 box, I had.

People obviously have their views on what this particular item should look like, post modification. One thing to remember though, engine swaps like these are major modifications and the results are not going to look oem for all components.
I wonder if anyone has asked the modifier a question on this at all?

Dont think its for use to ask to be honest Nige, where only expressing concern.

loadswine · November 10, 2015, 16:46

No, Absolutely right Tom, point taken. I did mean the OP to be honest. Lots of folks have expressed their concern. There may be a rational and engineered reason why it is configured that way. Mr Woods would be the person who would be aware of why this conversion is done in the way it is.

tomaky · November 10, 2015, 18:22

Totally agree be nice if he was on here.

Topdownman · November 10, 2015, 19:00

I asked Paul the question about the subframe today and why more seems to be taken out compared to other examples.

He mentioned a couple of things, he actually adds in ribbed sections into the normally hollow subframe to add strength and while it would be possible to mount the engine 1" forward, thereby taking out less of the subframe, he prefers to do it this way to give a straighter driveshaft angle and to keep the exhaust further from the firewall.

He said that he has done over 60 conversions over 10 years and has never had a problem with the subframes he has modded either on the road or the track.

He also agrees that the rear brace has little effect on handling and while a custom brace would be possible it would be extra expense.

loadswine · November 14, 2015, 09:54

That is a reasonable explanation. I would not have a problem with that. I thought Paul would have had valid reasons for the design.

Jrichards20 · November 14, 2015, 10:53

You want to chuck it on a track day with a couple of standard twos, and see what it's like in the corners s:)

s:) that will show how much the effect has s:)

s:)

Topdownman · November 14, 2015, 15:11

I am glad that people have said they do not notice the effects of the rear brace and its quite possible that I had either forgotten what the car felt like or I was reacting to the effect of different tyre pressures. When I said I could feel the loss of the rear brace, it wasnt like I had driven it, taken off the brace, driven it again and then come to that conclusion it was my memory of driving the car months ago.

I have noticed that when going hard and changing from 1st to 2nd, the back end of the car is quite squirmy and so I will have to experiment with pressures and damping and maybe go 10mm wider on the tyres when I change next (on standard bridgestones at the moment).

With regard to the subframe, I could imagine that the strength would only be as good as the narrowest part left so wasnt as worried as everyone else! I hadnt realised that they were internally strengthened (and with thicker gauge than original) so I am happy.

Sadly all a track day would show would be the small size of my, erm, talent!

nadeemxb · November 14, 2015, 19:07

I'm not sure where it bolts to (pre or post the cut-out section in yours) but don't Ultra Racing make a rear subframe brace. Not sure if it would help but could be worth a look.

Jrichards20 · November 16, 2015, 22:25

If you have Facebook. Check out DD Performance Research LLC, also been shared to MR2 Spyder / Roadtser group. They have made a production subframe for 2GR. Don't know the cost and being from America will be expensive anyway but it's a good start into another source of subframe for engine swaps.

Topdownman · November 17, 2015, 06:40

Impressive work!

To quote them;

DD Performance Research LLC This one weighs more - I don't recall the exact number but I think maybe 10 lbs more - it was developed to clear the E153 and to significantly increase the strength in order to sustain the higher torque loads anticipated with long term use of the 2GR with forced induction. We can build one from aluminum if someone has a race only requirement for something like a stock 1ZZ

They also say no price yet but was very expensive to make!!