Better Brakes

Skint Brit · December 26, 2015, 21:22

That's interesting. I've obviously heard of and use synthetic engine oil, but I don't recall seeing synthetic brake fluid. I may well try that (in conjunction with some braided hoses) as I must confess, out of all the the reasons I'm really happy with my 2, the brakes are the one area I feel let the car down. When I bought it I felt I needed to press much harder than on other NON sports cars I've owned, and they feel spongy. I immediately got the pads/discs checked, and the fluid changed (as I couldn't be sure when the last owner had had it renewed), and was looking forward to seeing a big difference when I drove the car home. I'm still unimpressed! It's not that I get the feeling that they won't stop me, just that other family hatches that I've owned, would stop me much more ferociously if required. Looks like I've got something to upgrade next year.

JoeCool · December 26, 2015, 22:34

That's weird because honestly, the brakes on these cars are immense. Other than pads you don't even need to upgrade them for track work.

Pedal feel is mostly about getting them properly bled. I also have braided hoses and there isn't actually much movement in the brake pedal, it's more a case of press harder = stop faster.

But yeah, re bleed, check all calipers are in good condition, and go from there.

Ardent · December 26, 2015, 22:52

what joe said.
Feels like it will endo like a bike if I wanted it to.
Stops very well indeed.

Skint Brit · December 26, 2015, 22:54

Seems strange to me too, my son who owns the car with me, currently drives an old but well looked after Fiat Panda, the brakes on that knock spots of the 2. If you press hard in the Fiat you end up through the windscreen. I've not been able to get that kind of performance from the 2 no matter how hard I press. According to Toyota who carried out the brake fluid change, everything else was looking in good condition. I'd really like to drive someone else's to compare.

ChrisGB · December 26, 2015, 22:55

Could it just be that you are used to brakes that are more heavily servo assisted?

ChrisGB · December 26, 2015, 22:58

Falling that, it could just be on poor quality pads?

1979scotte · December 26, 2015, 22:58

Meet you half way tomorrow you can try mine.
They make a bit of a racket due to grooved/drilled disks on the front but stop fine.

Skint Brit · December 27, 2015, 05:15

Possibly Chris, but that wouldn't explain why other drivers here, feel the brakes on their cars are excellent. I'd be surprised if many do not frequently drive other vehicles for comparison? I don't know for sure what pads are on it, but as it has a FTSH I'm guessing they're OEM?

Thanks for the offer Scotte, can't do tomorrow, but if you're serious, maybe in the new year. I'd like to meet up and chat with some other owners.

1979scotte · December 27, 2015, 08:07

If im not working or doing the wifes bidding then im available.

mr-ed_smt · December 27, 2015, 09:26

You don't get the sensitive, short pedal of a modern car - this doesn't mean those brakes are "better" - just that they're over servo'd!! The '2 has a longer pedal travel, but way more feel. And if you stomp on them they really do stop you.

My wife always used to complain that my '2 brakes were "rubbish". Her car was a bog standard Golf mk6 PoohMotion. The brakes were very firm and sensitive compared to the '2 - but that's just because they were heavily assisted (i.e. "fake"). The MR2 has far more braking "feel" compared to modern cars.

I'm not saying you couldn't improve yours with some decent pads and a full and effective bleed (to ensure there is no trapped air in any callipers or the master cylinder), but they will never feel like the brakes of an average modern hatchback. This is a good thing!

Ardent · December 27, 2015, 10:32

Skint Brit

Top offer from Scott there. If it was not for the much greater distance I would offer the same. I know it would follow but would good for him to try yours as well.
Have you actually tried an emergency type stop? Fully stamping on them - max pressure - the lot?
I had to peel my nose from the windscreen.
If you are not getting that, something is a miss.
Still say, you don't need to upgrade. Just see that the stock stuff is working correctly.
Can see the fluid was changed at a main dealers, sadly this is no guarantee it was done correctly.

Jrichards20 · December 27, 2015, 12:09

Quote from: "mr-ed_smt"You don't get the sensitive, short pedal of a modern car - this doesn't mean those brakes are "better" - just that they're over servo'd!! The '2 has a longer pedal travel, but way more feel. And if you stomp on them they really do stop you.

My wife always used to complain that my '2 brakes were "rubbish". Her car was a bog standard Golf mk6 PoohMotion. The brakes were very firm and sensitive compared to the '2 - but that's just because they were heavily assisted (i.e. "fake"). The MR2 has far more braking "feel" compared to modern cars.

I'm not saying you couldn't improve yours with some decent pads and a full and effective bleed (to ensure there is no trapped air in any callipers or the master cylinder), but they will never feel like the brakes of an average modern hatchback. This is a good thing!

I feel like this could be the problem.

My girlfriend also doesn't like my brakes. A tiny dab on her Mini Cooper and it's almost at 100% braking. But I can bet any money, the mr2 will stop in a much shorter distance. Same thing I had when I had the Elise, there is no servo at all and no abs. So when I first tried to brake, you really had to try hard. But when you slammed on the brakes and kept it from locking up, it would pull the skin from your face off.

Skint Brit · December 28, 2015, 06:06

Thanks guys for all your responses and offers of help, I really appreciate them. No I haven't tried an emergency type stop yet, so next time I'm out in it, I'll find a quiet stretch of road and give it a go. On driving it home after buying it, I did check that the calipers were biting evenly, by carrying out the customary 'hands just off the wheel and brake hard'' test, to see if it veered off to one side or the other. Seemed to pull up straight and true. Perhaps you are right, maybe it's the lack of assistance that I'm used to in other cars (not newer though, as the cars in question are actually 05/06 plates, so older than the two!) that is making me FEEL something is amiss? That's why I'm interested to meet up with some members, and compare vehicles, at least that way I'd have something to compare it to. Perhaps next year? Thanks once again.

weeJohn · January 8, 2016, 14:12

Might be worth checking there is good vacuum at the servo, the line travels a long way from the engine, a small crack could be reducing the full vacuum effect the servo should be getting.

Ardent · February 14, 2016, 00:38

Mild thread resurrection.

I keep pinching myself as I can barely believe what I experienced today.

Thought I would do a simple brake test now got the new tyres on.
The result was nothing short of astonishing.

Quite road, straight, flat and level. 30mph.

Applied brakes and just stopped dead. There was no perceptible de-acceleration. just went from 30 to stop. Just sat there puzzled, what the chuff just happened?
So repeated it.

Back up to 30mph

Choose a road sign post to act as a marker.
Applied the brakes when I felt I was level with the sign.
Then looked back to the sign. Actually I did not look back at all, simply across at it.

I had stopped in the distance between the front of the car and the side vent. somewhere between 2 and 3m. Astonishing!

I keep thinking that cannot be right and need to go and repeat it and video it.

Jase the gobsmacked

Treboeth · February 14, 2016, 01:01

Quote from: "Ardent"Mild thread resurrection.

I keep pinching myself as I can barely believe what I experienced today.

Thought I would do a simple brake test now got the new tyres on.
The result was nothing short of astonishing.

Quite road, straight, flat and level. 30mph.

Applied brakes and just stopped dead. There was no perceptible de-acceleration. just went from 30 to stop. Just sat there puzzled, what the chuff just happened?
So repeated it.

Back up to 30mph

Choose a road sign post to act as a marker.
Applied the brakes when I felt I was level with the sign.
Then looked back to the sign. Actually I did not look back at all, simply across at it.

I had stopped in the distance between the front of the car and the side vent. somewhere between 2 and 3m. Astonishing!

I keep thinking that cannot be right and need to go and repeat it and video it.

Jase the gobsmacked

No busies behind I hope s:o

s:o

Skint Brit · February 14, 2016, 18:46

That sounds amazing. What tyres? Also please send a copy of your video to the authors of the Highway Code, perhaps we can convince them to update the current stopping distances, that are probably based on a 1972 Morris Marina! No reason I can think of why we shouldn't have 100mph limits on U.K. motorways, but that's probably a discussion for another thread?

Ardent · February 14, 2016, 22:25

SB
Yoko AD08r

Alex Knight · February 15, 2016, 16:49

[youtube:1yrfstjx]qkIowmqOFRg[/youtube:1yrfstjx]

Ardent · February 15, 2016, 21:22

Found that informative.
Would have liked if they had done the above and a set of tyres.

For ref to my above post.
I am running Stock grade pagid discs and pads.
Fresh, but stock grade fluid.
Hel lines

I need to recreate the set up from sat and record it.

shnazzle · February 15, 2016, 23:14

I get abs issues with my pads, which is why I'm quite desperate to switch pads to something a bit more fast-road.

Especially since putting on the BCs.

The mtec pads and discs I've got are absolutely great, but as far as modulation goes... Nah ah.
It's all or nothing.
Strangely they don't do much in the way of fading though. But that's compared to the cheapass 128 quid Blueprint set I had from Camskill.

To add to the above video, I was disappointed that they didn't cover fluid more.
I regret putting ATE 200 in. It transformed the braking.. For all of a couple of weeks.
A good 5.1 is going in next time.

1979scotte · February 16, 2016, 09:18

I think we would all agree with the above.
Tyres pads and fluid are the best value upgrades.
I will be going back to stock disks on my next change slotted/drilled make too much noise and as the video suggests add nothing unless you are on track.
I have yellow stuff and 5.1 fluid with black diamond disks.
Toyo t1r soon to be relegated to spares by AD08R.

iower · February 18, 2016, 12:15

Quote from: "Ardent"Found that informative.
I need to recreate the set up from sat and record it.

I'd love to see this, sounds hilarious!

Ardent · February 18, 2016, 16:48

Weather permitting, I plan to.

Ardent · February 21, 2016, 22:03

Ok
First things first.
My view from the scock cock scock pit and perception of level with the post is a bit off.
Sorry about the wind roar. Some what blowy today. May well set this up again on a nicer day. Poor Delia was left in charge of pushing the button and being blown about something rotten.

However, these things aside. I am still entering the frame at 30mph.

So for reference.
MR2 roadster
Tein s springs fresh stock KYB shocks
Pagid Discs and pads
Hel Lines
Stock 4 fluid
Yoko ad08r tyres
30 to 0
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