Mini supercharger on 1zz

Carolyn · January 23, 2017, 19:14

Ah, ok. Promise not to chuck it on the floor!!

Essex2Visuvesi · January 23, 2017, 19:47

The kit I have is standalone, sensor, controller & gauge. But Should be able to splice it into the EMB tho somehow

Carolyn · February 3, 2017, 12:15

This is what's in my Emanage at present. Just fuel and ignition - no air map...

Just want to be sure it's fairly detonation proof. Views. please.

lamcote · February 4, 2017, 08:46

My comment would be that the fuel mapping is likely to cause the standard ECU to quickly create a long term fuel trim that pulls a lot of fuel out and this could lead to a significantly lean situation in open loop at the top end. You will be fighting the standard ECU all the way if your remap doesn't deliver stoichiometric mixture in closed loop ie without fuel trim intervention.
You really need to be watching the wideband sensor very closely and making adjustments as you go.

shnazzle · February 4, 2017, 09:16

Do you need to tail off the timing a couple degrees from about 4.5k onwards?

And as Patrick said, the fueling will need to be watched for AFR. The ECU will not like those closed loop fueling settings at all. You have it starting at boost, but the ECU doesn't know boost so it'll just go off rpm/temp/load/o2 sensor(s) and pull fueling anyway.

To give you an impression of how quickly the stock ECU starts fighting...
If I reset my ecu and drive out of me estate, up a 50 road for 2 miles and onto the A1. By the time I get 3 miles down the A1 my long term fuel trims take a sudden nosedive and stay there.

So you get less than 10 minutes of driving on the emanage settings.

lamcote · February 4, 2017, 09:30

Shnazzle, the key is hitting stoichiometric in closed loop. As you say, the ECU doesn't know boost, but it also doesn't know what the settings are either, it just sees the O2 sensor data. As long as it sees stoichiometric mixture it is happy. This means that with a boosted engine you could well have a lot of extra fueling mapped in parts of closed loop, if you have a lot more air going into the engine, you just have to match fuel and air to hit stoichiometric.
You will have to watch that wideband in closed loop for the first 10 minutes to see what mixture your remap actually produces and amend as necessary.
My gut feeling, and it's no more than that, is the map shown overeggs the fuel for safety, however the problem with this is that it could cause a lean mixture in open loop as I said before. BUT I would expect the final map to be adding a fair amount of fuel in parts of closed loop where there is boost.

Carolyn · February 4, 2017, 10:00

I have the loan of a wideband AFR kit (thanks to Gary) and Schnazzle-Patrick is going to do me one of his open loop trick-the-emanage kits...

Chris GB has been helping me to get to the bottom of getting an accurate boost reading... I'm going to be putting the car on rollers to get a reading under load.

Then I'll probably have to re-size the pulley to get target boost (c. 5 psi.) Then it can be tuned,,,,

We'll get there. At least the mechanicals are working lovely.

Wabbitkilla · February 4, 2017, 10:27

Remember that closed loop is only used at idle and cold running.
So you're under no boost at that time and the standard ecu will likely be relatively happy running things.
Fuel map and timing are basic adjustments obviously adding airflow adjustment is worthwhile under boost, the standard ecu will start pulling timing back if excessive knock is detected (one of the advantages of a piggy back setup).
A full professional map will obviously be the safest option.

shnazzle · February 4, 2017, 11:19

You'd be surprised how often the stupid thing goes into closed loop Nic. When I've monitored it on my drive to work and when I was tinkering, I swear it spent most of the time in closed until I was either coasting (goes open on deceleration) or when when I was accelerating with a bit more haste.
The rest of the time the stupid thing is in closed. It absolutely adores its o2 sensors.

Wabbitkilla · February 4, 2017, 13:10

Quote from: "shnazzle"You'd be surprised how often the stupid thing goes into closed loop Nic. When I've monitored it on my drive to work and when I was tinkering, I swear it spent most of the time in closed until I was either coasting (goes open on deceleration) or when when I was accelerating with a bit more haste.
The rest of the time the stupid thing is in closed. It absolutely adores its o2 sensors.

I suppose that's because you drive like a pussy s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:P

s:P

shnazzle · February 4, 2017, 13:33

Haha! Right you are!
Keep complaining about how slow these cars are, but if you drive with any kind of vigor you're breaking the law

shnazzle · February 4, 2017, 15:57

Haha! Right you are!
Keep complaining about how slow these cars are, but if you drive with any kind of vigor you're breaking the law

Carolyn · February 18, 2017, 11:55

Schnazzle's Emanage Trickery Unit (that's its official nomenclature) has arrived and is now hooked in. Thank you Patrick. Club donation duly supplied. Now to finish our home-made rolling road....

Essex2Visuvesi · February 18, 2017, 16:14

Quote from: "Carolyn"Now to finish our home-made rolling road....

Are you related to MacGyver? (The proper one not the crappy remake) s:bowdown: :bowdown: s:bowdown:

Carolyn · February 18, 2017, 16:20

didn't know there was a remake...

So long as we can run her up safely under load, the only thing I'd be missing from a dyno would be HP and torque - and I don't really care.... just want it to run well . Rollers aren't too hard....
Anyway -mullets are banned in our family.

shnazzle · February 18, 2017, 17:07

I won't tolerate a bad word being said about the original Macgyver series or Richard Dean Anderson.
The new one is utter utter utter kak and a total kick in the teeth to Macgyver.

Rant over.
Let's get this thing on the (rolling) road!

What a fantastic idea for mapping.

Carolyn · February 18, 2017, 17:16

Yep. with rollers you can do little and often, rather than risking damage running on the road. A bit of detonation in small doses is preferable... though I'm mapping for slightly rich and timing knocked bak 7 degrees at boost and 4500 rpm. Then it can be tuned from there...
Just got to finish the repairs on the rental property first. (Been putting that off...)

shnazzle · February 19, 2017, 09:11

To make things a bit more complicated/interesting...

m http://www.srtsyndicate.com/archive/ind ... t-272.html m

It's a hell of a read but in summary it's a further advancement on the box of tricks.

It allows auto-tune to a preset AFR.

It uses a hobbs to send wideband signal through the TPS input on the emanage at specific level of boost.
And then also does what you already have to force the car into open loop.

In short, it sends AFR wideband through the tps line on emanage so that you can tune by AFR, but only in boost. So if you want 11.5afr, you dial that in and when you've hit X psi boost it will adjust the MAF signal to remove or add air to get to 11.5. Very clever.

Carolyn · February 19, 2017, 09:25

Be warned.

I got a virus alert on that link.

Carolyn · February 20, 2017, 19:08

Latest update:
The Emanage is programmed (thanks Chris GB for input) to run just a little rich, and is now in the car. Patrick's trickery unit is in. She's been fired up and is running sweet. Still needs rolling road tuning but, essentially it's done. Last thing is to put heat shielding around the (inverted) air-box.
Thanks for project contributions from Shnazzle, Jonbil, Headcase, Esses2visuvesi, Lamcote, Chris GB, Jvanzyl and a few others....
In many ways a true MROC group project, which is something the club can be proud of.
At some point I shall document all the things needed and 'to do', to do one of these for yourself.
It took a few months and a few squids but we've done the learning curve, so subsequent ones should be much easier.
Anyone who wants to come see is welcome, just send a PM.
Again, thanks to all, and apologies to anyone I've not mentioned.

Essex2Visuvesi · February 20, 2017, 19:23

Happy to help out where I can s:)

s:)
Now to fit my turbo kit! lol

shnazzle · February 20, 2017, 19:54

I'm very pleased and would love to see/feel it in the flesh.
I'm really glad as well that, as you said, it's been an MR2ROC project. You and hubbie did 90% of the work of course, but it was great to see the collective expertise come together.

Good stuff all! And thanks Carolyn for footing the bills and doing this of course.

Essex2Visuvesi · February 20, 2017, 20:27

Right so who wants to buy a mini supercharger? s:lol: :lol: s:lol:
I have one in the shed as I was going to follow Carolyn's lead and go SC but then decided to go turbo

lamcote · February 22, 2017, 10:16

Excellent, but so many questions!

Which pulley size?
How much boost?
Is it drivable/usable?
How loud is it?
Does it idle OK?
Does it look like it will be a viable option for others to do? If not, then why not?
What are the good bits?
Are there any drawbacks?

I would really appreciate any information you have time to provide.

Thanks

Carolyn · February 22, 2017, 11:40

Which pulley size? 105 mm (might be too small) What do your calcs suggest for a target of 6lbs?? Or perhaps I should ask, what is the theoretical max boost at 5,000 rpm with a 105 mm pulley? I know you love doing these sums, Patrick.

How much boost? Not absolutely sure, as (at present) I have to drive it illegally to find out, but around 6-8 lbs...

Is it drivable/usable? Looks like it.

How loud is it? Louder than I'd like, but acceptable. There is room for a small additional can, but it's no louder than my neighbours Seven and that's legal.

Does it idle OK? Idles lovely (which bodes well).

Does it look like it will be a viable option for others to do? If not, then why not? Big question. It depends on what you can do for yourself and what you have to pay others to do. AND on what you're prepared to spend. The supercharger has had to be slightly modified, some casting removed to allow for the output pipe and the water-pump drive disabled. We gave it a service with a good clean-out and new (special) oil. Fabricating the exhaust is quite a job. Then there's the cost of the Emange blue and harnesses... The sub-frame turned out not to be a problem, but we had to cut out the two diagonal braces that go to the top cross member. We're putting in an extra strut brace, a bit like a TRD, but bent to allow the fan in the engine lid to clear. When I get the time (after the kinks are ironed out) I'll list what needs to be done....

What are the good bits? All fits and it WILL work (even if I have to put on a different pulley).

Are there any drawbacks? We'll see. I have to justify spending the money to put it on the road legally to really know.

In other words... got to do the rolling road stuff to give proper answers, but...

If the boost is right, there is absolutely no reason why it should not be as reliable as a decent turbo set- up and, of course the boost comes in lower down and has a really flat trace - so it should give that mid-range 'kick' I was after.