'01 Silver - The daily commute smile machine! (Turbo build)

[jvanzyl]

Whether you suck or blow depends on the layout of exhaust and inlet in the engine bay.  If the heat source is below the inlet tract - blow down, as that blows hot air away from the inlet.  The idea is to blow the hot air away from the bits you want to keep cool.

On the supercharger car, the exhaust was above most of the inlet tract so we sucked the air up.  In Jase's TTE turbo the hot bit is below the inlet tract, so it blows down.

Ah! Ok thanks for explaining that.. I'd sort of thought "upwards and out" was the name of the game to prevent heat soak.. I'm rethinking the location of the air filter. Possibly trying to get some kind of pipe down the drivers side rear quarter panel and getting the cone as close to the side vent as possible.

Shoving air down onto the top side of the charge barrel might be better than sucking all the hot air from the manifold and turbo below around it.

[jvanzyl]

Did some more "shopping" today.

Temps were high again basically it's within 30-35 of ambient with spirited driving and the whole engine bay is extremely hot. Like nothing is going to get cool in this place. Does make me think the exhaust wrap is doing zero.

In terms of what we're dealing with here:



Ideally this air filter is moved somehow to the side vent.
Only problem is:



The aerial.
Now I don't listen the radio and it's broken anyway. So I'm totally ok with taking it out and finding some kind of oval curved grommet to go into it's place.

I have bought some stuff to start making a shield to go around the charge barrel and another to some how shroud the manifold.. my thoughts are that it's all going to become a glorified frying pan but I'll give it a go.




This will be inserted in here.





I am also wondering about removing the rear inserts.. might aid airflow a bit.

[jvanzyl]

Courtesy of a nearby sign post (for rounding) I managed to make MK1 of the heat shield.

[jvanzyl]

Soooo.. bit of an afternoon of discovery!

I took off the rear arch liner and removed the aerial body.
I will glue in the top part into the grommet so that'll look "stock".



I then looked down towards the drivers vent and discovered IT'S COMPLETELY BLOCKED OFF! There was no WAY I was getting any air that hadn't been past the engine bay with the filter behind the rear light. It is NOT the same as the passenger side by any stretch of the imagination.

So I then set about removing the metal plate.

4x bolts later:



Aaand now we're presented with this thing which is explicitly there to duct air into the engine bay. I "might" be able to drill a hole into it and squeeze the air filter on to the other side.. not sure..

[jvanzyl]

"drill a hole and mount the filter on the other side"..  err no. No I won't as there's no way it'll fit!

At least now it's a clear view to the side vent.


Managed to finish and fit the charge barrel heat shield. It might need to bigger to shield from the muffler but if I'm shoving air down onto it, it probably can't be a full "U" shape anyway.


So tomorrow I have some more ducting arriving. This will then allow the filter to sit..

Here!


Just need to glue the aerial stub in now.. will be interested to see what the temperatures behave like..

[jvanzyl]

So the new trunking for the intake arrived.


Fitted it and wrapped the bit that's in the engine bay up in reflective tape.







Then took it for some more shopping (no really I actually ended up at Tesco's as I realised I'd forgotten to get milk earlier).
Anyway... Ambient temp was 19C, and the temps cruising according to the app were sitting around 30-35C general driving. Did several strong bits of acceleration up hill up join a dual carriageway and temps briefly spiked to 51C. But then came down pretty quickly into the 30's.. is that ok/reasonable/poor? @Gaz2405 what are your intake temps like?

Now.. when I open the engine bay, yes it's still hot. BUT if I carefully place my hand round the charge barrel it's cool to the touch. The heat shield works! I still think shoving a bunch of air down onto it will help massively but we'll get there.

I'll have a look at the logs tomorrow, but I think it's good progress. Obviously best way to test would be to have another 33C day. But I don't particularly want that..

Oh yes and you can REALLY hear the turbo flutter now..

[Gaz2405]

So the new trunking for the intake arrived.


Fitted it and wrapped the bit that's in the engine bay up in reflective tape.







Then took it for some more shopping (no really I actually ended up at Tesco's as I realised I'd forgotten to get milk earlier).
Anyway... Ambient temp was 19C, and the temps cruising according to the app were sitting around 30-35C general driving. Did several strong bits of acceleration up hill up join a dual carriageway and temps briefly spiked to 51C. But then came down pretty quickly into the 30's.. is that ok/reasonable/poor? @Gaz2405 what are your intake temps like?

Now.. when I open the engine bay, yes it's still hot. BUT if I carefully place my hand round the charge barrel it's cool to the touch. The heat shield works! I still think shoving a bunch of air down onto it will help massively but we'll get there.

I'll have a look at the logs tomorrow, but I think it's good progress. Obviously best way to test would be to have another 33C day. But I don't particularly want that..

Oh yes and you can REALLY hear the turbo flutter now..

I'll have to double check some logs,  but pretty sure I don't see 50°c+. I'm sure.

[jvanzyl]

I'll have to double check some logs,  but pretty sure I don't see 50°c+. I'm sure.

Cool thanks man.

[Call the midlife!]

I can't be arsed to look back and check, what are you collecting your intake temp data from? If it's a sensor in the charge pipe just before the throttle body are you confident it's working properly/calibrated correctly? And is the software reading it right?

[Kurt]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but have you checked your charge cooler pump is flowing enough water? I'm running a similar air intake setup, but with a ducted rear-mount intercooler rather than a w2a, and at 20c+ ambient my average temps were 35c~ after a 20 minute track session!

[jvanzyl]

I can't be arsed to look back and check, what are you collecting your intake temp data from? If it's a sensor in the charge pipe just before the throttle body are you confident it's working properly/calibrated correctly? And is the software reading it right?

I'm assuming the temp data is coming from the MAF sensor. It's placed after the charge cooler barrel before the throttle body. In terms of calibration.. erm.. well I have no idea how you'd calibrate the MAF sensor.. or how to test it. I guess I'd have to check the weather and then see what reading it was giving before turning over the engine?

Apologies if this has already been covered, but have you checked your charge cooler pump is flowing enough water? I'm running a similar air intake setup, but with a ducted rear-mount intercooler rather than a w2a, and at 20c+ ambient my average temps were 35c~ after a 20 minute track session!

Well the pump is rated to 1200L per hour.. I suppose I can take it out and test it (oh the delights of dealing with coolant again).. when I look in the expansion tank I see current flowing, it is possible that it's restricted somewhere in the piping or the pump is failing I guess..
I'll have to go through the routing and see if I've some how got a kink or something..

Having gone through my logs my IATs are at 35–37°C (16–18°C above 19°C ambient) with general driving so it does sound like something is not working the way it was/should be.

[Gaz2405]

I'm assuming the temp data is coming from the MAF sensor. It's placed after the charge cooler barrel before the throttle body. In terms of calibration.. erm.. well I have no idea how you'd calibrate the MAF sensor.. or how to test it. I guess I'd have to check the weather and then see what reading it was giving before turning over the engine?

Well the pump is rated to 1200L per hour.. I suppose I can take it out and test it (oh the delights of dealing with coolant again).. when I look in the expansion tank I see current flowing, it is possible that it's restricted somewhere in the piping or the pump is failing I guess..
I'll have to go through the routing and see if I've some how got a kink or something..

Having gone through my logs my IATs are at 35–37°C (16–18°C above 19°C ambient) with general driving so it does sound like something is not working the way it was/should be.

When I take the cap of my header tank the inlet is flowing like a hose pipe at full chat.

[jvanzyl]

When I take the cap of my header tank the inlet is flowing like a hose pipe at full chat.

Huh... Right I'll look deeper into that.
I have just done a "thing".. it may be a bit dumb but we'll see..



So number plate has been raised (using original holes in the number and rubber spacers) no idea if it's going to be horrific or not.. will see what effect this has.

[jvanzyl]

Spent till 0115 going through the charge cooling system. From what I can tell it's not flowing like it used to. I mean it flows, but I think I remember it being stronger.

When testing the flow rate I'm sure I introduced more air locks and then discovered that various connectors on the system weren't as air tight as I'd hoped and this manifested in a bubble that I could find right by the barrel.



I think I might try and find some kind of t-piece with a release valve that I can install by the barrel. Would make getting air out a lot easier.

Will put the car up on ramps next so I can inspect the rest of the system, I think I've narrowed it down to either a failing pump (it's a Bosch- would hope it was fine) or there's a constriction underneath or between the engine and the body that I can't see yet.

[Gaz2405]

That see through hose can kink quite easy from what I remember.

I've used 19mm ID coolant line, it's got a much thicker wall to it and is difficult to kink.

[jvanzyl]

That see through hose can kink quite easy from what I remember.

I've used 19mm ID coolant line, it's got a much thicker wall to it and is difficult to kink.

Oh do you have a link to what you used? I used this stuff https://www.chargecooler.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=202_219&products_id=395

It's nice to be able to see the liquid to check for air bubbles.. but as you say, if it's easy to kink then that sucks.
Just re read your post. So you're using standard coolant rubber? ... Guess I could move to that... Could have little transparent bits before and after the barrel maybe to check for bubbles.

[Joesson]

@jvanzyl
John, from my earlier working life I recognise the hose you are using as a Griflex product, (Griflex HN Clear Braided PVC Liquid hose) in my experience used for compressed air, liquids and food products (at ambient temperature).

[jvanzyl]

@jvanzyl
John, from my earlier working life I recognise the hose you are using as a Griflex product, (Griflex HN Clear Braided PVC Liquid hose) in my experience used for compressed air, liquids and food products (at ambient temperature).

Ok- fair enough thank you.. they're selling it as charge cooler piping, but it definitely does get thinner with heat and angles..

[jvanzyl]

So I gave up on using grok and reverted to chatgpt for the analysis.
The below shows how both setups worked on the 4th of July vs the 7th of July.
Changes between the 4th and 7th are as follows:

• Intake moved to drivers side air vent
• Heatshield created for charge barrel and intake trunking
• Front number plat raised to allow for greater air flow to radiators
• Charge system fiddled with to remove all possible air locks and hopefully a few restrictions in piping routing

The desire to gather more data just to make pretty graphs is strong..
Suffice to say it's nice to see that I'm improving and it's visualised in a way that I can verify.

It will be interesting to see if I can establish a baseline for the car when I've finished with the cooling improvements and then occasionally upload a log file and ask it to tell me if anything is wrong/worse..

[jvanzyl]

So today could have gone better and it could have gone worse...

I decided to try an refurb my Power steering unit, but I started with practicing on my old unit that I'd replaced yonks ago and was sat on the shelf. I followed the guides, cleaned out the dust safely and re-assembled. I decided to try and fit it and see if the cleaning helped it.
Managed to preserve all the PS liquid in a cup and then knocked the cup over.. .yay..

Fitted the now refurbed old PS unit and fired up the car, it sounded "clacky".. and then the it just stopped working.

Fair enough.. at least I tried.
Turned my attention to the current unit, cleaned it out and fitted the refurb kit bought from ebay. Went really well as everything was fresh in my mind what to do.
Fitted it back into the car, extracting the old unit that had just stopped, managed to preserve a fair portion of the fluid. Fired up the car and... no PS assistance.. I could hear it whirring away (no more whining which is great!) but it wasn't actually translating to the "power steering" experience.

Checked the fuse box in the Frunk and the fuse is fine.. I don't really know what the problem is. Oh and in the re-assembly process managed to slice my finger quite deeply.. So yeah.. I'm injured, no power steering but the whine is gone.. not sure how to rate that for a full days effort.

[jvanzyl]

Soo the plan.
Rotate current power steering unit cap by one slot or two to see if I can get it to work.

Regardless of the result, fit the new ps piping and new second hand unit from j-spec.

Then fit the nice new quarter panels, and work on my air coolant thing in the drip tray.

[tets]

I asked Chat GPT to look at my map on my Apexi - I uploaded some old logs to see if it would suggest the same alterations as I'd done - It wasn't far off and if anything a bit more conservative with the ignition timing than I was.
I'm going to do some more logs and input more data (intake temp and inj duty) as I had only done Wideband, knock and ignition timing. I also need to connect my boost gauge to the Apexi so I can log that as well.

I think it might just be able to do a job!

[jvanzyl]

I asked Chat GPT to look at my map on my Apexi - I uploaded some old logs to see if it would suggest the same alterations as I'd done - It wasn't far off and if anything a bit more conservative with the ignition timing than I was.
I'm going to do some more logs and input more data (intake temp and inj duty) as I had only done Wideband, knock and ignition timing. I also need to connect my boost gauge to the Apexi so I can log that as well.

I think it might just be able to do a job!

Hey thats brilliant news! (Not so much if you're a tuner).. would be interested to see if you could coach it to a degree of risk that you are ok with..

[tets]

that's the plan John, I've been doing it myself and I'll keep doing it but I'll drop the data in to chat GPT to see what AI suggests compared to where I'm at

The beauty of it from my perspective is, I can ask it for a conservative tune, the most powerful (risky) tune and whatever it says I can still go my own way. I'll keep going with it as I think it could be a really useful addition to my arsenal

[jvanzyl]

following much messing around with pipe replacement on the car lift,  it is now bled and working😃

started on the power steering unit first





Then started on the front quarter panel, and was fought by some rusties but they are no match for good old grip nuts!



Definetly better then the old one