Question on handling... anecdotal evidence accepted

[lamcote]

Yes, I accept the front strut brace makes a noticeable difference to the feel of the car, my real question is, what exactly is it improving, steering feel? Static torsional rigidity? Dynamic torsional rigidity?
The point of my constant whining is that the reason usually quoted as being behind the improvement seems so massively unlikely to be correct (reduced flex resulting from cornering forces) that it makes me question the whole thing.

Also I'm not convinced about the relative rigidity of the rear v front towers. The strut towers are welded on to the firewall at the front (about the best place they could possibly be for rigidity) and they are set back separated away from the firewall at the rear so there is potential for movement between the firewall and the towers. This may be a reason Toyota only fitted a rear brace?

[shnazzle]

The two are not mutually exclusive; "better" steering feel can only come from reducing any dampening of the feedback from the wheels to the steering wheel. I.e....stiffer front end.

And oem cars are built with that flex in mind anyway.
Toyota obviously did realise they made a mistake on the front end when they released the facelift, as they added more bracing to stiffen the front.

[lamcote]

Agreed, but yet they still didn't think it was necessary to fit a strut brace. Even though that would have been the easiest one to do....?

[Carolyn]

Yet Toyota Racing Development, who are proper engineers (not just aftermarket bling producers) saw fit to make very strong front and rear strut braces. Unfortunately, you have to cut the front plastics to get the thing in.  There's a knock-on effect on production if it were to be included in the production car.  There was no knock-on consequence from the change to the front under-brace.
It's not so much 'Toyota made a mistake' as they made an economics based production decision.
I suggest you follow the scientific method.  Come up with an hypothesis and then conduct the experiment.  Hypothesis you have.  Others have conducted the experiment and you seem to be the lone voice, so far.  
All I can say is; 'try it you'll like it'.

[shnazzle]

And a knock on effect for added stiffness in the steering  s:) s:)  
Most people don't want "steering feel". They want smooth, bump-free, almost feelingless steering.
To be honest, I desire this from out family car. I just want it to get me from a to b in the most amount of comfort and safety with as little input from me as possible.

As C says, try it... All the cool kids are doing it  s:) s:)  haha

[jvanzyl]

Just as an aside - I got my UR front strut brace for £50 off of gumtree.. I'm sure if you call around the breakers (Andy, Deano, D1ck & maybe that guy in Birmingham) they will more than likely have one they can offer you for similar money.

I added it to my car when it had the tired old front suspension, front polys and Toyos and it was phenomenal in terms of the difference it made.

[lamcote]

One day I'll try one out and see how it goes.

[shnazzle]

And then we will all point and laugh at you  s:) s:)

[mikek]

My trd braces look nice! Does this help?

[mikek]

In all seriousness I put an ultra racing front brace on kates car and the difference in corning/turn in was very noticeable. The matts/tte mid brace also makes a massive difference. As Carolyn suggests, try it with and without and see what you think. I'm sure someone would let you borrow a front brace to put on your car (only takes 5 mins to swap) then you can see for yourself.

[lamcote]

And then we will all point and laugh at you  s:) s:)

That's brave talk from the man who thinks the struts lean in opposite directions going round a corner  s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

[shnazzle]

I never said that!

[silversprint]

The key point is torsional improvement IN CORNERING. As I say, the towers both move in the same direction under cornering so linking them together with a brace can have little to no impact. I would expect that the force differential, created during cornering, between the two towers is about equivalent to a fairly heavy man pushing on the side of the car. If the towers move in this scenario I'd be very surprised.
Steering feel may be improved but getting more rigidity to resist cornering forces I doubt very much.

Although you are correct that the towers deflect in the same direct. You are assuming they deflect equally. The inside and the outside wheels see different loads in different stages of a corner. Linking the towers reduces the difference.

The amount the towers move is absolutely tiny. We are talking mms. However the stiffer the suspension, stickier the tires,  higher the cornering loads, the greater the force on the tower.

Also under braking the towers can move towards each other.

[lamcote]

I'm not assuming they deflect equally, I am assuming there is a variance of deflection that is somewhat "equivalent to a fairly heavy man pushing on the side of the car". If they deflected equally there would be no "force differential" at all. The point I am making is that the level of this force is so low that it can't need extra bracing to deal with it, otherwise you would be able to move the towers by pushing them, I don't know about you but I can't do that.
As I have said, I accept that the brace makes a difference to feel but it is not due to additional cornering rigidity for the towers.

[shnazzle]

On a side note, you know what I feel is the biggest impact on handling?
Temperature.

The difference in how taught the body feels between a hot and a cold day is phenomenal.
It ranges from bouncing off every bump to feeling like I need to put my damping up a good 10 notches

[shnazzle]

Interesting article.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

 m http://news.bimmerworld.com/is-a-strut-brace-worth-it/ m

In my opinion the mr2 is a car that needs it. Especially after 65k+ miles on the clock and 10 years of metal fatiguing, on top of the structural rigidity built into the car

[lamcote]

That is very interesting. I also noticed an article on the new BRZ STI today in which Subaru talked about chassis bracing specifically being added to improve steering feel.
Also I hadn't linked temperature to the feel of the car but now you mention it I think there could be something in that.