Intermittent Starting Problem

[shnazzle]

Just wondering one thing. Not sure if this has been covered and I'm too lazy to read back;

When I first got that Toyota OBD2 app, I was playing around with all the options and I changed my vvt angle.
Car instantly stalled and wouldn't start again until I put the power on and changed the setting back.

Is there any way this could be an intermittent vvti issue?


Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Carolyn]

possible - but unlikely.

If you go back through the thread the problem has appeared and disappeared when the wiring at the left-hand end of the engine has been handled/moved.

It then went away for some time until a clutch job (major harness waggling) and then it came back.

We'll check the oil control valve and filter while we have the alternator loose.

[Joesson]

@Carolyn, in the 60''s and 70's before low cost/ compact instrumentation, circuit continuity in lift / shafts systems was tested with a battery operated bell and lamp indicator, was such a system ever used on motor vehicles?

[Carolyn]

Yep.  A little box with a battery, a buzzer and some crocodile clips. 

With a variation for testing points opening using a light bulb.  When it barely lows the points are just opening.

Still handy tools....

[Joesson]

I made up the "variation" must have been pre 1970, t had blue rubber insulated cable, mini croc clips and a bulb and holder. The last time I used it was on my wife's Fiesta last Century!
It only recently went in the bin as I doubt I'll be setting points again.

[1979scotte]

I have some sympathy for modern mechanics, who aren't trained to diagnose and repair.. They are in the parts replacement biz these days.

However (there's always a 'however'), The 1ZZ went in the RAV4,  the Avensis, the Celica and close variants thereof went into just about every other Toyota for around ten years.  So it should not be such a mystery.  Same electrics, same mechanicals.

Whether the engine is in front or back is irrelevant.

Have been thinking exactly the same myself for 2 pages.
The car is rare the engine is as common as muck.

[shnazzle]

It's a shame really. I have a lot of faith in us "forum mechanics" by the sheer power of multiple brains tackling one problem.

I've definitely experienced what Carolyn is talking about with our old Jag. It went to a Jag dealer garage with all of the official Jag kit and they could not figure out the issue. I was sent home without an answer.

It took me a further 2hrs or so of googling and some binary to decimal conversions from the "engineer mode" on the car to come up with the problem.

The software didn't show this so that was the end of the line for them. Had they used the "old school" onboard diagnostics and translated the binary codes presented on the little screen in the dash they would have sent me home happy.

A mechanic can't be expected to know everything about every car.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[jonbill]

I accept that many main dealers can't diagnose their older cars, but I'm not sympathetic. Cars are built on platforms which only change slowly. They don't have to understand every car, just the generations of platforms. I would expect a main dealer to be able to diagnose any one of their cars from the last 20 years at least.
They're just greedy. They want £50+ /hr from their customers but only pay the mechanics a fraction of that. So they have high turn over and low skill.

[shnazzle]

Well yes. I suppose nobody shows me any sympathy if I didn't sort out some 3rd party supplier because I didn't know I needed it.

I guess we all have a job to do and rarely does anybody know it all for every technology/car

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Carolyn]

One of the hardest things for many people to say:

"I don't know".

[Joesson]

Well yes. I suppose nobody shows me any sympathy if I didn't sort out some 3rd party supplier because I didn't know I needed it.

I guess we all have a job to do and rarely does anybody know it all for every technology/car

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Although I met a few that thought they did in my technology.
They can be worse than those that admit bafflement.

[shnazzle]

One of the hardest things for many people to say:

"I don't know".

Haha! I say it ALL the time.
I absolutely detest it when people clearly don't know something and pretend they do.

Which is why Helen always leaves when I need to ask a Curry's salesman a question

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[1979scotte]

One of the hardest things for many people to say:

"I don't know".

Haha! I say it ALL the time.
I absolutely detest it when people clearly don't know something and pretend they do.

Which is why Helen always leaves when I need to ask a Curry's salesman a question

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

It's like the staff at DIY places most have no idea about anything they sell.

[je72]

Update, I had planned on going to the garage this morning to see if I could fluke getting the car started and get it the short(ish) trip home. However as it's in their uncovered car park and we have 24 hours of heavy rain forecast I've decided to give that a swerve. I called them to explain and they were really understanding and said I didn't need to worry about moving the car till next week.

I also advised that I've had the offer of an expert MR2 owner. They actually agreed that was probably for the best, they also conceded that they had reservations about auto-electricians diagnosis too  they said if it turns out that it was the wiring, could I let them know as they might re-evaluate who the subcontract electrical diagnosis to.

[shnazzle]

Update, I had planned on going to the garage this morning to see if I could fluke getting the car started and get it the short(ish) trip home. However as it's in their uncovered car park and we have 24 hours of heavy rain forecast I've decided to give that a swerve. I called them to explain and they were really understanding and said I didn't need to worry about moving the car till next week.

I also advised that I've had the offer of an expert MR2 owner. They actually agreed that was probably for the best, they also conceded that they had reservations about auto-electricians diagnosis too  they said if it turns out that it was the wiring, could I let them know as they might re-evaluate who the subcontract electrical diagnosis to.

That's a really honest and respectable answer. Kudos to them

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Call the midlife!]

Update, I had planned on going to the garage this morning to see if I could fluke getting the car started and get it the short(ish) trip home. However as it's in their uncovered car park and we have 24 hours of heavy rain forecast I've decided to give that a swerve. I called them to explain and they were really understanding and said I didn't need to worry about moving the car till next week.

I also advised that I've had the offer of an expert MR2 owner. They actually agreed that was probably for the best, they also conceded that they had reservations about auto-electricians diagnosis too  they said if it turns out that it was the wiring, could I let them know as they might re-evaluate who the subcontract electrical diagnosis to.

That's a really honest and respectable answer. Kudos to them

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Plus one on that, especially as you still don't actually know what's causing it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ardent]

+1
They have just gone back up a bit in my estimation.

[Ardent]

One of the hardest things for many people to say:

"I don't know".

When you know as little a I do.
It becomes quite easy.
I've had lots of practice.

[Ardent]

A mechanic can't be expected to know everything about every car.

I agree.
Caveat. On the face of it, we are still looking at an electrical fault.
This seems a purely methodical diagnostic issue.

[Chilli Girl]

A mechanic can't be expected to know everything about every car.

I agree.
Caveat. On the face of it, we are still looking at an electrical fault.
This seems a purely methodical diagnostic issue.

Steady Jase with that statement, you will have to go and sit down after that.

[Ardent]

This is what happens if the grape juice in the blood volume drops too low.
Will be restoring the correct balance later with the juice of some tempranillo grapes. 

[je72]

So the story continues! I had a call from the garage today. I had been planning on going to try and start her, but as it's rained all day I'd decided to wait until tomorrow. I thought they were going ask where I was. However they told me again about how they had been a little unsure of the auto electricians diagnosis and that because they had a cancellation on Saturday, they had managed to have another look at the car. Low and behold, with a little bit of loom waggling they were able to start her! They were also able to replicate the stall when they tried to drive it over the ramp bumps! They said they were able to pretty much pinpoint the area of the loom that they think is responsible. They did also say that sometimes no amount of waggling seemed to work whilst other times it did, so it's not exactly "in the bag yet". They ran out of time on Saturday and they are now proposing to have another look on Wednesday. They said that no way was it the timing chain as they listened to it while it was running and that they wouldn't charge me for the hours labour for the auto electrician and that they wouldn't be paying him either!

I'll update you on Wednesday! 

[Joesson]

Things could be getting better for you Je. I have posted my " thoughts" on the subject in my daily.

[shnazzle]

Result! And the club is right once again

Garage doing a stellar bit of customer service there as well

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

[Carolyn]

Are you still bringing it here for a loom swap?