Intermittent Starting Problem

[je72]

The 1st time I've been able to enjoy Ozzy for a couple of weeks without a worry that she might not start again if I stopped!


Check those big beautiful ears!

Had a beautiful cruise along one of the best roads in Worcestershire/Herefordshire the B4232 Jubilee Drive:

https://goo.gl/maps/N3jsbt9gABC2

[StuC]

The 1st time I've been able to enjoy Ozzy for a couple of weeks without a worry that she might not start again if I stopped!

Welcome to reliability:)

[shnazzle]

Congrats on finding the culprit!

I'm a little confused though.
Is the noise filter also used as an electronic choke?

[je72]

Congrats on finding the culprit!

I'm a little confused though.
Is the noise filter also used as an electronic choke?

I'm just going from what @spit said in his comment, I'm afraid I can't verify either way. After a bit google, it seems that the "Noise sensor" helps with radio interference? That's a great diagram though I tried to find an image like that to share with you guys!

[lamcote]

Just trying to sum up exactly what happened here. Do you think the initial problem was caused by the battery and or cam sensor and then you got a subsequent issue as a result of doing the cam sensor and damaging the stud? Or do you think the problem may have been that the offending stud was causing the problem all along? If so that could be something for us all to be aware of.
Thanks

[Carolyn]

I'm not convinced it's the stud or the noise filter.  Could be, could also be the cardboard is stabilising something else that is a maginal connection.

We'll see.

[je72]

Just trying to sum up exactly what happened here. Do you think the initial problem was caused by the battery and or cam sensor and then you got a subsequent issue as a result of doing the cam sensor and damaging the stud? Or do you think the problem may have been that the offending stud was causing the problem all along? If so that could be something for us all to be aware of.
Thanks

You've summed up my (unqualified) feeling of what has happened here. But as you'll see from Carolyn's (infinitely more qualified) comment she's not so sure. As a result I'm gradually going to work through all the earthing points to try to ensure I don't get a reoccurrence.

[lamcote]

I reckon you should put the old battery and cam sensor back in to test it all out ......................NOT!

[je72]

I reckon you should put the old battery and cam sensor back in to test it all out ......................NOT!

Hahaha, I was kind of dreading that someone might say try putting the old cam sensor back in A new air filter arrived today, so I "might" just try that as it was much easier once the airbox was out of the way. 

[Carolyn]

I reckon you should put the old battery and cam sensor back in to test it all out ......................NOT!

Hahaha, I was kind of dreading that someone might say try putting the old cam sensor back in A new air filter arrived today, so I "might" just try that as it was much easier once the airbox was out of the way. 

I'm not fussed about getting the sensor back  'Never groom a working horse' applies here.

While you've got the intake in bits, it's a great time to do earths as they are very accessible.

[spit]

!I'm a little confused though.
Is the noise filter also used as an electronic choke?

Apologies for confusing you yung'un! 
These were known as chokes or suppressors back in the days of b/w tele and flares.
Without one, the radio was nothing more than a sonic tachometer!
How they worked back then I've no idea. How they work now, I've no idea.

[je72]

Royal Mail have eaten the stud Carolyn sent last Saturday. I've kind of been waiting for that before I got busy with cleaning the earth's (any excuse huh?) So to avoid any more hassles for Carolyn, I think I'll pop somewhere and get a stud or a bolt from b&q or Halfords or somewhere  As you know I'm a novice so I just wanted to know (other than suitable dimensions) is there any kind preferred material or features for such a bolt?

Cheers :-)

[Call the midlife!]

If it's m6 then you could always replace it with an A10 stainless, m6 screw and washer. They're cheap as chips at Screwfix for a bag of 10 and some washers. Plus they're the same fixings for the nappies etc when you shear them off.


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[je72]

If it's m6 then you could always replace it with an A10 stainless, m6 screw and washer. They're cheap as chips at Screwfix for a bag of 10 and some washers. Plus they're the same fixings for the nappies etc when you shear them off

Ha! Yes that will indeed kill two birds with one stone when I inevitably shear off the nappy fixings whilst trying to get at the crankshaft earth

Thanks for your help 👍

[je72]

I thought you might be interested in an update  I've been putting off cleaning the 2nd bundle the of earths and doing the 1st lot again properly for about 2 weeks (heatwave, have to work on car in street, no shade blah blah) I'd only had one problem in that time when the car stalled at the end of my street, it started again and I was able to use it for the job I had to do. I knew then that as you guys suspected, me replacing the stud with a bolt that clamps the noise filter, wasn't the fix to my problem. I knew I'd got to get those earths properly cleaned, I was waiting for it to get a bit cooler as I wanted to change the air filter and have a go at fitting the ultimate gear bushings at the same time. Three birds with stone as it were!

Then Wednesday I noticed that after I went over some bumpy bits in my street, I detected a slight "pause" it didn't stall altogether and then carried on ok. Yesterday I drove to the end of my road and as I went over the bumpy bit again, the engine stalled properly. it kept restarting (I was in a dodgy road position) so had to keep starting and moving a bit and then it would stall again, sometimes she wouldn't' start at the 1st time of asking. I kept jumping out and gently pushing and shoving the wiring near the earth's. Eventually I got her back home, but that really focussed my mind, I must have a loose earth right?

So today, I got busy (although I did back out of doing the bushings, I'd read the whole group buy thread and it filled me with dread about the tales of scraped knuckles and battles) I decided I'd tackle that when I get the starting problem resolved once and for all.

This is what my filter looked like:



It actually looks slightly better in the pic than in real life! It's not supposed to look like that right?

Anyway she's got a lovely fresh compline one in there now, that ll went very well, I'm definitely getting better!

Then I came to do the earths, I don't possess any spanners I've been doing everything with an old cheap socket set (which to be fair has done the job) but I can't get the socket on the earths to remove them as it's too long and it interferes with the little wires running from the wiring loom.  I've decided to get a 10mm spanner and have a go over the weekend.

Onwards and upwards!

[shnazzle]

That filter is horrendous.
Last time I saw a filter like that it was on my pre-fl before I serviced it and it kept stalling and stumbling

[je72]

That filter is horrendous.
Last time I saw a filter like that it was on my pre-fl before I serviced it and it kept stalling and stumbling

Even I could tell that wasn't right. It actually looks better in the pic than in real life. It was very satisfying getting that changed. It is possible that could be the cause of my starting and stalling problem? I have to say, it sounded better to me after I fitted it, car seemed to be purring nicely.

[shnazzle]

That filter is horrendous.
Last time I saw a filter like that it was on my pre-fl before I serviced it and it kept stalling and stumbling

Even I could tell that wasn't right. It actually looks better in the pic than in real life. It was very satisfying getting that changed. It is possible that could be the cause of my starting and stalling problem? I have to say, it sounded better to me after I fitted it, car seemed to be purring nicely.

Absolutely. That engine will have been choked like a chicken in a teenager's bedroom.

Reset the ecu (assuming you've cleaned maf already) and see what it's like

[Call the midlife!]

https://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/socket-sets/halfords-advanced-36-piece-socket-set-1-4
Not necessarily this one but they've got the half price sale on again, top quality tools and lifetime replacement guarantee if they fail.


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[dan944]

I thought you might be interested in an update  I've been putting off cleaning the 2nd bundle the of earths and doing the 1st lot again properly for about 2 weeks (heatwave, have to work on car in street, no shade blah blah) I'd only had one problem in that time when the car stalled at the end of my street, it started again and I was able to use it for the job I had to do. I knew then that as you guys suspected, me replacing the stud with a bolt that clamps the noise filter, wasn't the fix to my problem. I knew I'd got to get those earths properly cleaned, I was waiting for it to get a bit cooler as I wanted to change the air filter and have a go at fitting the ultimate gear bushings at the same time. Three birds with stone as it were!

Then Wednesday I noticed that after I went over some bumpy bits in my street, I detected a slight "pause" it didn't stall altogether and then carried on ok. Yesterday I drove to the end of my road and as I went over the bumpy bit again, the engine stalled properly. it kept restarting (I was in a dodgy road position) so had to keep starting and moving a bit and then it would stall again, sometimes she wouldn't' start at the 1st time of asking. I kept jumping out and gently pushing and shoving the wiring near the earth's. Eventually I got her back home, but that really focussed my mind, I must have a loose earth right?

So today, I got busy (although I did back out of doing the bushings, I'd read the whole group buy thread and it filled me with dread about the tales of scraped knuckles and battles) I decided I'd tackle that when I get the starting problem resolved once and for all.

This is what my filter looked like:



It actually looks slightly better in the pic than in real life! It's not supposed to look like that right?

Anyway she's got a lovely fresh compline one in there now, that ll went very well, I'm definitely getting better!

Then I came to do the earths, I don't possess any spanners I've been doing everything with an old cheap socket set (which to be fair has done the job) but I can't get the socket on the earths to remove them as it's too long and it interferes with the little wires running from the wiring loom.  I've decided to get a 10mm spanner and have a go over the weekend.

Onwards and upwards!

From experience. Don't buy individual spanners. It'll add up very quickly to a lot of money. If you can, take the hit and buy a toolset from the outset. It'll always get used and is a good investment IMO. Halfords advances tools are quite good and have lifetime guarantee. If you can find someone with a trade card you'll make huge savings.

I paid £200 for a £400 toolbox on trade card. had everything I needed for my build, ish.

[Call the midlife!]

I thought you might be interested in an update  I've been putting off cleaning the 2nd bundle the of earths and doing the 1st lot again properly for about 2 weeks (heatwave, have to work on car in street, no shade blah blah) I'd only had one problem in that time when the car stalled at the end of my street, it started again and I was able to use it for the job I had to do. I knew then that as you guys suspected, me replacing the stud with a bolt that clamps the noise filter, wasn't the fix to my problem. I knew I'd got to get those earths properly cleaned, I was waiting for it to get a bit cooler as I wanted to change the air filter and have a go at fitting the ultimate gear bushings at the same time. Three birds with stone as it were!

Then Wednesday I noticed that after I went over some bumpy bits in my street, I detected a slight "pause" it didn't stall altogether and then carried on ok. Yesterday I drove to the end of my road and as I went over the bumpy bit again, the engine stalled properly. it kept restarting (I was in a dodgy road position) so had to keep starting and moving a bit and then it would stall again, sometimes she wouldn't' start at the 1st time of asking. I kept jumping out and gently pushing and shoving the wiring near the earth's. Eventually I got her back home, but that really focussed my mind, I must have a loose earth right?

So today, I got busy (although I did back out of doing the bushings, I'd read the whole group buy thread and it filled me with dread about the tales of scraped knuckles and battles) I decided I'd tackle that when I get the starting problem resolved once and for all.

This is what my filter looked like:



It actually looks slightly better in the pic than in real life! It's not supposed to look like that right?

Anyway she's got a lovely fresh compline one in there now, that ll went very well, I'm definitely getting better!

Then I came to do the earths, I don't possess any spanners I've been doing everything with an old cheap socket set (which to be fair has done the job) but I can't get the socket on the earths to remove them as it's too long and it interferes with the little wires running from the wiring loom.  I've decided to get a 10mm spanner and have a go over the weekend.

Onwards and upwards!

From experience. Don't buy individual spanners. It'll add up very quickly to a lot of money. If you can, take the hit and buy a toolset from the outset. It'll always get used and is a good investment IMO. Halfords advances tools are quite good and have lifetime guarantee. If you can find someone with a trade card you'll make huge savings.

I paid £200 for a £400 toolbox on trade card. had everything I needed for my build, ish.

See? Another glowing recommendation for Halfrauds socket sets. If you go further up the range there's at least one with a set of ratchet spanners in too, same one I've got. Pretty sure it's got the "magic" torx bit in it too.


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[dan944]

I thought you might be interested in an update  I've been putting off cleaning the 2nd bundle the of earths and doing the 1st lot again properly for about 2 weeks (heatwave, have to work on car in street, no shade blah blah) I'd only had one problem in that time when the car stalled at the end of my street, it started again and I was able to use it for the job I had to do. I knew then that as you guys suspected, me replacing the stud with a bolt that clamps the noise filter, wasn't the fix to my problem. I knew I'd got to get those earths properly cleaned, I was waiting for it to get a bit cooler as I wanted to change the air filter and have a go at fitting the ultimate gear bushings at the same time. Three birds with stone as it were!

Then Wednesday I noticed that after I went over some bumpy bits in my street, I detected a slight "pause" it didn't stall altogether and then carried on ok. Yesterday I drove to the end of my road and as I went over the bumpy bit again, the engine stalled properly. it kept restarting (I was in a dodgy road position) so had to keep starting and moving a bit and then it would stall again, sometimes she wouldn't' start at the 1st time of asking. I kept jumping out and gently pushing and shoving the wiring near the earth's. Eventually I got her back home, but that really focussed my mind, I must have a loose earth right?

So today, I got busy (although I did back out of doing the bushings, I'd read the whole group buy thread and it filled me with dread about the tales of scraped knuckles and battles) I decided I'd tackle that when I get the starting problem resolved once and for all.

This is what my filter looked like:



It actually looks slightly better in the pic than in real life! It's not supposed to look like that right?

Anyway she's got a lovely fresh compline one in there now, that ll went very well, I'm definitely getting better!

Then I came to do the earths, I don't possess any spanners I've been doing everything with an old cheap socket set (which to be fair has done the job) but I can't get the socket on the earths to remove them as it's too long and it interferes with the little wires running from the wiring loom.  I've decided to get a 10mm spanner and have a go over the weekend.

Onwards and upwards!

From experience. Don't buy individual spanners. It'll add up very quickly to a lot of money. If you can, take the hit and buy a toolset from the outset. It'll always get used and is a good investment IMO. Halfords advances tools are quite good and have lifetime guarantee. If you can find someone with a trade card you'll make huge savings.

I paid £200 for a £400 toolbox on trade card. had everything I needed for my build, ish.

See? Another glowing recommendation for Halfrauds socket sets. If you go further up the range there's at least one with a set of ratchet spanners in too, same one I've got. Pretty sure it's got the "magic" torx bit in it too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The tools aren't mind blowing. But the guarantee is probably better than snap-ons tbh.
No questions asked. I've been doin all sorts to my tools haha

[Call the midlife!]

I thought you might be interested in an update  I've been putting off cleaning the 2nd bundle the of earths and doing the 1st lot again properly for about 2 weeks (heatwave, have to work on car in street, no shade blah blah) I'd only had one problem in that time when the car stalled at the end of my street, it started again and I was able to use it for the job I had to do. I knew then that as you guys suspected, me replacing the stud with a bolt that clamps the noise filter, wasn't the fix to my problem. I knew I'd got to get those earths properly cleaned, I was waiting for it to get a bit cooler as I wanted to change the air filter and have a go at fitting the ultimate gear bushings at the same time. Three birds with stone as it were!

Then Wednesday I noticed that after I went over some bumpy bits in my street, I detected a slight "pause" it didn't stall altogether and then carried on ok. Yesterday I drove to the end of my road and as I went over the bumpy bit again, the engine stalled properly. it kept restarting (I was in a dodgy road position) so had to keep starting and moving a bit and then it would stall again, sometimes she wouldn't' start at the 1st time of asking. I kept jumping out and gently pushing and shoving the wiring near the earth's. Eventually I got her back home, but that really focussed my mind, I must have a loose earth right?

So today, I got busy (although I did back out of doing the bushings, I'd read the whole group buy thread and it filled me with dread about the tales of scraped knuckles and battles) I decided I'd tackle that when I get the starting problem resolved once and for all.

This is what my filter looked like:



It actually looks slightly better in the pic than in real life! It's not supposed to look like that right?

Anyway she's got a lovely fresh compline one in there now, that ll went very well, I'm definitely getting better!

Then I came to do the earths, I don't possess any spanners I've been doing everything with an old cheap socket set (which to be fair has done the job) but I can't get the socket on the earths to remove them as it's too long and it interferes with the little wires running from the wiring loom.  I've decided to get a 10mm spanner and have a go over the weekend.

Onwards and upwards!

From experience. Don't buy individual spanners. It'll add up very quickly to a lot of money. If you can, take the hit and buy a toolset from the outset. It'll always get used and is a good investment IMO. Halfords advances tools are quite good and have lifetime guarantee. If you can find someone with a trade card you'll make huge savings.

I paid £200 for a £400 toolbox on trade card. had everything I needed for my build, ish.

See? Another glowing recommendation for Halfrauds socket sets. If you go further up the range there's at least one with a set of ratchet spanners in too, same one I've got. Pretty sure it's got the "magic" torx bit in it too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The tools aren't mind blowing. But the guarantee is probably better than snap-ons tbh.
No questions asked. I've been doin all sorts to my tools haha

I got H a full set when he started his apprenticeship, they're now cast aside since he got mugged off by the MAC tools rep but that's his circus.
One thing you really do need in your arsenal though is a decent breaker bar. (To je72)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dan944]

I thought you might be interested in an update  I've been putting off cleaning the 2nd bundle the of earths and doing the 1st lot again properly for about 2 weeks (heatwave, have to work on car in street, no shade blah blah) I'd only had one problem in that time when the car stalled at the end of my street, it started again and I was able to use it for the job I had to do. I knew then that as you guys suspected, me replacing the stud with a bolt that clamps the noise filter, wasn't the fix to my problem. I knew I'd got to get those earths properly cleaned, I was waiting for it to get a bit cooler as I wanted to change the air filter and have a go at fitting the ultimate gear bushings at the same time. Three birds with stone as it were!

Then Wednesday I noticed that after I went over some bumpy bits in my street, I detected a slight "pause" it didn't stall altogether and then carried on ok. Yesterday I drove to the end of my road and as I went over the bumpy bit again, the engine stalled properly. it kept restarting (I was in a dodgy road position) so had to keep starting and moving a bit and then it would stall again, sometimes she wouldn't' start at the 1st time of asking. I kept jumping out and gently pushing and shoving the wiring near the earth's. Eventually I got her back home, but that really focussed my mind, I must have a loose earth right?

So today, I got busy (although I did back out of doing the bushings, I'd read the whole group buy thread and it filled me with dread about the tales of scraped knuckles and battles) I decided I'd tackle that when I get the starting problem resolved once and for all.

This is what my filter looked like:



It actually looks slightly better in the pic than in real life! It's not supposed to look like that right?

Anyway she's got a lovely fresh compline one in there now, that ll went very well, I'm definitely getting better!

Then I came to do the earths, I don't possess any spanners I've been doing everything with an old cheap socket set (which to be fair has done the job) but I can't get the socket on the earths to remove them as it's too long and it interferes with the little wires running from the wiring loom.  I've decided to get a 10mm spanner and have a go over the weekend.

Onwards and upwards!

From experience. Don't buy individual spanners. It'll add up very quickly to a lot of money. If you can, take the hit and buy a toolset from the outset. It'll always get used and is a good investment IMO. Halfords advances tools are quite good and have lifetime guarantee. If you can find someone with a trade card you'll make huge savings.

I paid £200 for a £400 toolbox on trade card. had everything I needed for my build, ish.

See? Another glowing recommendation for Halfrauds socket sets. If you go further up the range there's at least one with a set of ratchet spanners in too, same one I've got. Pretty sure it's got the "magic" torx bit in it too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The tools aren't mind blowing. But the guarantee is probably better than snap-ons tbh.
No questions asked. I've been doin all sorts to my tools haha

I got H a full set when he started his apprenticeship, they're now cast aside since he got mugged off by the MAC tools rep but that's his circus.
One thing you really do need in your arsenal though is a decent breaker bar. (To je72)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I still need to get one but with the Halfords guarantee who need it haha.

4ft persuader bar and the half inch ratchet tends to work.
If it breaks...it breaks. I'll get a shiny new one haha.

All seriousness though, breaker bar is a good call.

[je72]

Absolutely. That engine will have been choked like a chicken in a teenager's bedroom.

Reset the ecu (assuming you've cleaned maf already) and see what it's like

Hehe, that made me chuckle! I did clean the maf a while back, it was pretty cruddy too:

Before:


After:


I reset the ecu when I cleaned it (2 weeks ago) do you reckon it's probably best to do it again now there's a clean air filter too?