Epp 1: The Gearbox Saga

[Anonymous]

I bought my 2 in January with 11000 miles on the clock for a very reasonable fee I might add.  I love it to bits... but now the gearbox is on it's way out and it's only done 16000 miles!!!

Naturally I called Toyota.  The car is a 2001 registered and is out of warranty.  I only got 3 months warranty when I bought the car.  I explained to Toyota that a gearbox is designed to do substantially more miles than 16000, the car is always serviced on time and the oil level was perfectly normal.  They asked me to drop the car into them so they could take a closer look.  Not a problem I thought.  So after I finished work, (and I'm a mechanic to by the way), I dropped the car round and let one of there mechanics take it up the road.  I already knew it was probably a bearing on it's way out and this was confirmed by Mr T as being a relatively common problem on other models of Toyota but not really the 2.

Anyway, if anyone has ever tried to claim for 'good will' from Toyota you'll know that it's done through there customer care centre.  What happens is the garage you take the car to recommends what needs to be done.  Then the customer care centre looks back at other factors, taking into account the fault, the mileage of the car, how often you use Toyota, how many Toyota's you've owned etc.  Is it just me or is all this completely irrelevant?  This is the first Toyota I've ever owned and It has a problem.  Who cares about how many I've had before or how many times I've used Toyota.  The point is I have a nearly new sports car that has broken years before it should and needs to be fixed.

And then... wait for this... they tell me that they're only prepared to offer me the parts for the repair at half price!!!  That's there contribution!  I know that I should be grateful but in all honesty I find that insulting.  The labour alone will come to more than £400.  And before someone asks why I can't fix it, I recommend that you take out your gearbox and have a look at the complexity of it.  There are Russian rocket scientists that would have trouble working out the gearbox on the 2.

So what should I do?  Apart from writing a rather firm letter to Mr T does anyone have any advice.  Does anyone know anyone who's good with gearbox's.  If someone knows they have the ability to do it, I'm more than happy to trade skills, jobs, get cheap parts, pay them privately etc.

Anyway must dash and start this letter.  The sooner I finish, the sooner I can go shopping for my next car, and unless a miracle happens, it won't be a Toyota.  Maybe an S2000!  I'll keep you updated.

[aaronjb]

I agree, that does entirely suck - and you're right, a gearbox should last for 160k really, not 16k (especially when you consider we're only pushing out 140bhp or thereabouts). But I guess the problem is - Toyota (and most large car manufacturers, I'd imagine) just really couldn't give a monkeys..  s:( s:(

Don't know any gearbox specialists either I'm afraid (not manual boxes, anyway) so can't help there  s:( s:(

I recommend that you take out your gearbox and have a look at the complexity of it.  There are Russian rocket scientists that would have trouble working out the gearbox on the 2.

Nah, piece of cake. Although I'd likely just be left with a pile of random bits  s;) s;)  (Actually, I do have a shed with a pile of random bits in it - from an auto box..)

Gearboxes never cease to amaze me though. Just who was it who thought "I know.. we make the cogs spin freely, and then join them to the shaft when we need their use by means of these funky little things. Hey, look, a gearbox!".

Oh and - I entirely agree on the petrol in the eye thing..

[Anonymous]

Ever thought of trying the Sale of Goods act?:

•  Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

•  Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

•  Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

•  It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

•  For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.


more details here: http://www.dti.gov.uk/ccp/topics1/facts/salegoodsact.htm

[Anonymous]

I suppose I should think myself lucky as far as a warranty is concerned

Nigh on two weeks ago the engine died in a large way on my 30,000 miler throwing a rod out the back of the engine

Mr T Garage has removed engine for Mr Warranty man to inspect and has now decided that I am not to blame. However Mr warranty man now wants Toyota to help out with the costs of the new engine ?? and are waiting for the ok from them. Meanwhile whose paying for the hire car  s:( s:(

Bondy m8

Quote the consumer protection act at them and state that you have only owned the vehicle for nigh on six months (same as me). Failing that ring the Toyota customer support line directly and explain the situation to them as you never now you may get a sympathetic ear

[SteveJ]

One point to bear in mind (that Phil hasnt quoted) - the burden of proof of 'fit for purpose sold' and 'of merchantable quality' lies with the retailer for items purchased from new and only applies for the first 6 months

After 6 months the purchaser has the burden of proof and TBH you are going to find it very hard to defend against them pointing to the millions of cars that dont have a problem with their gearboxes.

How do I know this? I used the Sale Of Goods Act to get my entire car replaced 2 years ago, but in that case the fault was identified within the first few weeks and Toyota couldn't prove that the ABS was working when I collected the car (a long story - if you search for posts by SteveJ with ABS in them you will get the picture)

[ninjinski]

Mate the gearbox and clutch in the MR2 go easily - With my 2001 car I went through both (I drive hard) - the gearbox was replaced under warranty. The clutch was going but at this point i traded in for a new car (while keeping my mouth shut) as to replace was £700.

For a car that yearns to be driven hard they go easily - so with your mileage you sHOULD be getting a repacement - keep on it!!

[Jap GT300]

For Comparison

Second hand gearboxes are from £50 to £400 depending on year and amount of gears.  A specialist should only charge £150 - £200 to fit it.

[SteveJ]

Mate the gearbox and clutch in the MR2 go easily - With my 2001 car I went through both (I drive hard) - the gearbox was replaced under warranty. The clutch was going but at this point i traded in for a new car (while keeping my mouth shut) as to replace was £700.

For a car that yearns to be driven hard they go easily - so with your mileage you sHOULD be getting a repacement - keep on it!!

There are aprox 300 active users on MR2-ROC, and there have been at most 5 gearbox failures reported. By my reckoning thats a failure rate of 1.6%. Now consider that ROC probably only accounts for about 2% of total UK ownership, and now the failure rate is down to .03% - pretty good if you ask me.

The gearbox and clutch in the '2 is NOT a weak link.

[Anonymous]

There are aprox 300 active users on MR2-ROC, and there have been at most 5 gearbox failures reported. By my reckoning thats a failure rate of 1.6%. Now consider that ROC probably only accounts for about 2% of total UK ownership, and now the failure rate is down to .03% - pretty good if you ask me.

But 0.03% that assumes that none of the rest of the 14,700 owners that aren't active ROC members experienced a failure.  Which may be true, but is a massive assumption.

[SteveJ]

There are aprox 300 active users on MR2-ROC, and there have been at most 5 gearbox failures reported. By my reckoning thats a failure rate of 1.6%. Now consider that ROC probably only accounts for about 2% of total UK ownership, and now the failure rate is down to .03% - pretty good if you ask me.

But 0.03% that assumes that none of the rest of the 14,700 owners that aren't active ROC members experienced a failure.  Which may be true, but is a massive assumption.

  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  Forgot that, but past experience of reasons for new people joining ROC shows that the a large proportion of people sign-up because they are having problems with their cars and are looking for advise / help to fix it. A quick look at users first few posts very quickly confirms this. My figures are probably a little on the optimistic side, but I cant believe that the failure rate even gets close to 0.1%

[Tem]

I agree with Steve, this isn't even close to being a common problem.

...and it's a fact that many sign up to make their issues public, while barely anyone signs up just to say everything is fine with their car...
(not saying people shouldn't sign up for that reason)

[Anonymous]

Indeed, the membership probably isn't a representative sample, and IMHO you're right, it's not a common problem.  Just being a bit picky with the stats  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

The bloke at the garage I spoke to said it was a relatively common fault on the Avensis.  Obviously the MR2 is in a different league but the set up is pretty similar.  I might look into getting a used box.  I can fit it myself, but to be honest on a car with only 16000 miles I don't really want to take the last option first.  It would be better in the long run to get the existing box stripped and rebuilt.  Good company in Reading called Car Gears.  Will cost about £350 I think.  12 months warranty on top of it as well.

[heathstimpson]

That was Toyota's first offer; when I have dealt with other manufacturers in the past I got the garage to resubmit to obtain more  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  I know a local guy who owns a gearbox rebuild company in Oxford. I can ask for a quote if interested.