Jack stand pads

[VN]

Please don't flame me for this, I have been slowly losing my mind over the past week or two trying to figure out what I should do.

Can anyone tell me how I am meant to have a jack stand at the pinch weld areas marked but not crush the pinch weld?

The scissor jack that comes in the K51 marked bag as standard (or at least I think it is standard) has a 2cm deep slot for the pinch weld to go in. For reference the pinch weld itself also seems to be almost 2cm in protrusion from the body. But as far as I can tell it seems like the weight of the car rests on the panel or whatever you want to call it towards the inside of the pinch weld and not on the pinch weld itself. I was looking at it as I jacked the car up using it so that's what I think is going on and also based off the scratch marks only being present on the raised section towards the centre of the body on the scissor jack and not on the outside raised section or the  of the  it seems to tell the same story. I have attached some photos to show what I mean, more to follow.


Now I don't want to just put a jack stand underneath the pinch weld and hope it doesn't bend. But the jack stand pads online don't seem to have the same depth cut out like the scissor jack does, which in my head just results in the pinch weld edge taking the load again. The only pads I have seen that potentially have enough clearance was a hockey puck looking one for an E30 M3 but those types don't seem like they will be very stable on the jack stand I have access to, they seem more suitable for a floor jack.

I don't want to risk just putting the jack stand on the panel towards the inside of the body where the pinch weld jack point is marked either as the top of my jack stands are 11cm long by 3cm wide and are not flat at the top but more of that V shape with a flat centre and that would place the weight on an area outside pinch weld jack point indents which are 6cm apart along the pinch weld, potentially causing the weight to be resting on an unsupported area? Also the jack stand would not have the widest length running laterally in relation to the car body which probably would make them less stable laterally.

I have read everything I can on spyderchat and here. Checked online, conflicting information. And even if I wanted to follow the use a jack pad advice I don't see how it will help here for the reasons I mentioned.

As for placing jack's stands on subframe control arm mounting points. Won't that bend the metal? I know the same can potentially be said about the use of the inside panel at the pinch weld jack point but please do correct me if I am wrong about this I am just trying to figure this out. Where would it go at the front? I assume the rear would use the lower control arm connection point to the subframe, but wouldn't too much of the load be placed there? Considering that if the car were to be on the ground the weight would be distributed through the strut top and the lower control arm at minimum? maybe less so through the toe arm and traction arm? Wait, now that I think about it more the strut top seems like the only point that really carries most of the cars load, the lower control arm would just help guide the camber curve, I don't see how the metal that it would then attach to at the subframe will be able to hold the cars weight without deflecting, if it were designed for that would they not have said it can be used as such in the manual?


Please help. 

[VN]

continued

[105e]

I use a trolley jack which has a cup on top, i then got some of those pads and extended the slot with an angle grinder, so the pad fits nicely in the cup and nicely under the sill sharing the load between the bottom of the sill and the bottom of the pinch welds as you call it..

[Carolyn]

Wow! that's a lot of stuff on jacking the car.  The 'pinch weld' betwwen the two slots is specifically designed as a jacking point.

However, at the rear, I tend to use the mounting points for the arms that go from the chassis to the hub, they are plenty strong.  Or you can use the main control arm points on the subframe - they won't crush.  I use the rear engine mount for the actual jacking.

At the front, I favour using the inner chassis rail (very strong) for the jacking and the rear mounting point of the a-arm for the jackstand, which is also very strong.

The worst thing you can do is put real pressure on the bottom of the body panels - I've seen quite a few that were crushed.

I tend to favour getting the jackstands well away from the wheels so they don't get in the way when working on the car. 

[Iain]

Ive been sitting the car on jack stands on the 'pinch welds' for years and had no problem.

[househead]

No flames from me ... I've been through the same thought process! Personally would love to find some axle-stand (not sure why they're ever called "jack stands") rubber pads with pinch-weld slot that would fit my Draper axle stands (they're 35mm wide and I cant find anything that seats them). Failing that, I use the axle stands on the inside sills only, behind the marked area. For jacking, I use the rear engine mount and the front marked jacking point. I chock the front wheels and jack the rear up first (for getting it back down I do the rear first followed by the front). Sometimes (because the front jack point is a pain to get to on a lowered car), I jack up each side on the sills, add my axle stands next to the jack on their lowest setting, then hit the front jacking point to get a few more notches up on the front axle stands. My new jack has a rubber pad but not a particularly thick one. I do worry about that bolt on the rear engine mount jacking point but it seems to take the abuse. As for the K51 scissor jack, I save that for out-on-the-road emergencies only. Thankfully only had to use it the once.

[VN]

I use a trolley jack which has a cup on top, i then got some of those pads and extended the slot with an angle grinder, so the pad fits nicely in the cup and nicely under the sill sharing the load between the bottom of the sill and the bottom of the pinch welds as you call it..

What do you do for the jack/axle stands then? Why not use the front subframe jack point, is it because your car is lowered?

Won't cutting the rubber pads risk splitting them in two because of weakened load bearing capacity?

[VN]

Ive been sitting the car on jack stands on the 'pinch welds' for years and had no problem.

Really? It doesn't bend? Are you using them with the car inclined or flat in relation to the ground? Considering if the car is inclined less surface area would have to carry the same load as the angle the pinch weld edge would no longer run parallel to the jack/axle stand top, which in my head, causes more point loading on the pinch weld rather than across the entire 6cm that is supposedly meant to take said load.

[VN]

The 'pinch weld' betwwen the two slots is specifically designed as a jacking point.

I have seen many say that but they don't look particularly strong and why does the scissor jack completely clear the pinch weld in that case? It doesn't make any sense. I can understand maybe they had already developed the scissor jack and they just threw it in with the car but even in the jack instructions I have access to it shows the jack stand using some sort of pad that seems to clear the pinch weld.

However, at the rear, I tend to use the mounting points for the arms that go from the chassis to the hub, they are plenty strong.  Or you can use the main control arm points on the subframe - they won't crush.

Why would they have not said it was suitable for jacking then... The reduced distance laterally between the jack stands would cause greater instability wouldn't it? Also I have the underbody plastics still in place so I can't really use that. I think the same may be for the front. Are you absolutely sure that everything is ok when using the subframe as a support point? I need pictures to see if it really is ok. I can't remember if the front underbody plastics cover the control arm mounting points to the chassis.

At the front, I favour using the inner chassis rail (very strong) for the jacking and the rear mounting point of the a-arm for the jackstand, which is also very strong.

Do you have any pictures? I wouldn't want to put it at the wrong place and then regret afterwards.

The worst thing you can do is put real pressure on the bottom of the body panels - I've seen quite a few that were crushed.

Are you referring to the outer sill? Or the inner sill? Because like I showed in the pictures the scissor jack didn't even touch the outer sill or pinch weld/sill seam/sill flange or whatever (is that why everyone was saying 'pinch weld' ?). Am I doing something wrong if I were to use the scissor jack and it doesn't touch the pinch weld?


I just want to make sure they don't bend  one corner is already a bit bent from whoever handled the car previously...
I am not trying to bend something or give more reason for rust to slowly eat away at the car.

Online I get mixed opinions, oh it's okay use the seams, oh use pads, use subframes use this use that. Why is there no consensus about these things. For someone doing this for the first time this kind of seemingly unreliable information is not great.

And why does the scissor jack completely clear the seams. Why does it rest completely on the inside sill/panel?

Is that intentional?

[VN]

I think I am losing it 

[VN]

Failing that, I use the axle stands on the inside sills only, behind the marked area.

Yeah I saw some guy do that in a video too but like I said my stands would place weight on section outside of the marked area. Not trying to risk it. I don't know how exactly the marked areas of the pinch weld are supposed to be reinforced but and how far out either side that reinforcement is supposed to be but I feel that 2cm either side of the marked area might be large enough of a distance to be risky. Not sure though.

[Iain]

Really? It doesn't bend? Are you using them with the car inclined or flat in relation to the ground? Considering if the car is inclined less surface area would have to carry the same load as the angle the pinch weld edge would no longer run parallel to the jack/axle stand top, which in my head, causes more point loading on the pinch weld rather than across the entire 6cm that is supposedly meant to take said load.

Bit of everything. The car is jacked up (sometimes on the pinch points depending on job) and has axle stands under them every few weeks. My car is an Mr2 championship car so its checked over/jobs to do after every race (4/5 week intervals from april to october). It sat on 4 stands over all last winter on the pinch points in the garage and not a bend in sight. Its what they're designed for. 

[Gaz mr-s]

For jacking on the sills I use a strip of wood in behind the seams joint that extends below it.  Numerous other places though as Carolyn says.

[Carolyn]

You're making mountains out of molehills...

I'm not about to roll around on the floor to provide you with pictures.

The jacking points are designed to be used with the scissor jack.

There's loads of places on the car that are more than strong enough to be used for jackstands.

I'm sorry you find my information unreliable, hell - what would I know??

[Joesson]

During the years that I had my 2 it was typically off the ground for six months at a time.
To lift it I used a trolley jack with a block of (beech) wood shaped a little to sit on the Jack head and clear the engine mount fixing bolt that I used as a lifting point. Axle stand were then placed under the rear sill jack points trimmed at the contact point with a piece of thick carpet folded over a piece of rubber mat.
The front I lifted with the OE supplied Jack as the trolley was not low enough. This acted on the U shape recess in the undertray.  Trimmed Axle stands were placed under the front sill jack points.
The two lifting and four jack points as stated in the Handbook.

[VN]

I'm sorry you find my information unreliable, hell - what would I know??

Sorry I think my wording caused a misunderstanding I was referring to all the information online about this topic. Everyone says different things as to what should be done and what shouldn't. I did not mean to offend you. I appreciate everyone's input on this matter, I am a beginner to all of this and I don't want to take any chances in messing something up. People say what they do but often don't explain the reasoning why or entertain other ideas for a moment to help another understand, I don't doubt that things have worked for people but I want to know why so I can figure out what I can do. It was the reason I asked here because of all the conflicting information I found. I just want to try and take care of my car. I understand that to others it seems like I am overthinking but when it's your only car, your first car and the car you hope to keep for as long as possible, to me this level of going crazy about small things just seems normal. Maybe I am stupid, I am not sure. I just want to make sure I am not making a mistake. I don't doubt you know what you are talking about, but I have never done this before and I don't want to ruin this car.
Again, I hope you didn't take offence. It was my mistake for wording it poorly. If you did, I am sorry.

As for the pictures that's just me wanting to know that it is fine. And also because there may be something I would not have picked up on from text alone that I would have through a picture.

[househead]

If you listen to just one voice in the sea of voices, where these cars are concerned, listen to @Carolyn . She's probably jacked up more MR2s than most of us have had hot dinners