C2 Install & Pictures: 85,000 miles on

Two's Company · April 18, 2006, 21:17

At a more reasonable hour of the day I would have offered to bring my laptop round to save you lugging the 'puter about s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

You need to start fixing the car during the day rather than the middle of the night!

Anonymous · April 18, 2006, 21:24

PMSL@ 'laptop' s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Ste, on my e-Manage map for larger injectors, the correction ratio is 0.650, so well below 1. From what I gather from your post, you're trying to set it up to run smaller injectors, hence the reason for it running lean. I'd try setting it to 0.8 to start with and seeing what that gives you, and then play from there.

spit · April 18, 2006, 23:26

I need to explain things a little better Dan......

Gas started on Alberto's car with a Celica map, and set the ratio above 1 cos of the stock injectors that Alberto & I were running. (So effectively it was already mapped for the bigger ones). So on the basis that I now have the Celica injectors, the map should be right if I bring the ratio back to 1.....but I'm still a tad rich.

I've also allowed for the extra flow that you seem to get with the 380s by bringing it down a bit further to simulate 410-420cc...... its still not behaving as I'd like it to.
...............................................................................

Things have moved on tonight: Gas has sent me the Philster's map. I've tried it tonight and blimey its quick s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

But I'm still tending on the rich side and every time I lift the throttle to idle the AFR settles on 11. s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Maybe this is unavoidable with a bigger injector but I'd like to tune it out if I can...... we're back to that dman closed loop thing again and maybe the car can't step down the injectors enough.

Gonna recal the w'band tomorrow, clean the n'band and borrow a laptop s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Chances of making it for Saturday are a little brighter, but you'll smell me coming! s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Anonymous · April 19, 2006, 01:30

A stoich ~14.7 idle with the 380's and the Emanage is the norm and is to be expected.

Its all about the InjectorCorrectionFactor and the AIR map.

Also, the OEM ECU wont be "learning around" the emanage either because the MAF voltage it sees is controlled by the Emanage. I've left my fuel trims alone for about 6-months (no battery disconnect) and the off-boost AFR was always solid. Then it passed our smog, I disconnected the battery to clear the LT&ST trims and AFR is still 14.7ish at idle & cruise.

There always times when the AFR momentarilly swings really rich or lean during shifting /stopping but its for less than a 1 second.

LeeUK · April 19, 2006, 21:20

The PC made me laugh, wish I was fitting the turbo seeing all the fun your having. s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

Sounds like you're making headway, good luck and keep up the good work!

spit · April 19, 2006, 22:33

Thanks Lee. After a very stressed weekend its all falling into place again.

Tonight, we used Gazz's sensibly-sized laptop (cheers mucka) and backed off the top-left corner of the air map. What was an AFR of 10 at idle is now sitting happily at Stoich. Hoorah.

The changes we had to make were quite drastic though (an additional -20% in places s:shock: :shock: s:shock: ), so I'll be sniffing Phil's exhaust with interest on Saturday. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

I'm having to learn to drive again though - I'd become so used to the previous map - Phil's is much more grunty!

Ste

LeeUK · April 21, 2006, 17:29

More grunt?! Stop it! Not listening la la la la s:P

s:P

spit · April 28, 2006, 16:59

Yep, there's more! Never-ending this turbo kit lark.

Ladies and Gentlemen....I give you....the Magic Knob:

This little gizmo has transformed the car, even at stock boost levels. I have absolutely no idea why, but I must've been losing so much through the wastegate with the stock setup s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Perhaps someone can explain.

And here's the result from last week's D-Day. The Greddy peak gauge didn't reach 0.5 Bar during the run, so I guess we're looking at just shy of 7psi.

I have no idea what dyno charts mean s:oops: :oops: s:oops: , but given that I was spewing fuel everywhere less than a fortnight ago and I'm running the Philster's rich rich map, I'm gobsmacked.

Next to come is an attempt to bring AFR up a bit under boost. Oh, and whilst my original comment that nothing had dropped off after 10,000 miles was indeed true, it seems the manic push to D-Day has encouraged the suicidal departure of a Turbo-DP Allen bolt. Never did like those things!

It'll be fixed in the morning.

Enjoy your Bank Holiday, people.

ps 1000th post - woohoo

kanujunkie · April 28, 2006, 17:28

sorry saw Ste's magic knob and the mind boggled s:? :? s:?

Tem · April 28, 2006, 18:57

Quote from: "spit"This little gizmo has transformed the car, even at stock boost levels. I have absolutely no idea why, but I must've been losing so much through the wastegate with the stock setup s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Perhaps someone can explain.

Assuming you went from stock wastegate to controller...?

The stock gate is basically just a spring. Say you set it to keep the boost at 10 psi. What it does is that it will already start to open a little at say 3 psi, a bit more at 5 psi and so on. Not only will you lose power down there, but it'll also take longer to reach the set boost.

A good controller will keep it totally closed till it reaches the wanted pressure, so you'll get full boost as soon as the turbo can deliver it and it won't escape through the wastegate before you're at the set pressure.
(it does usually start opening just before reaching the set boost, so you won't overboost...or you can set some to allow a small overboost when spooling up on purpose)

spit · April 28, 2006, 23:47

Quote from: "Tem"Assuming you went from stock wastegate to controller...?

Yes I did. I was just so surprised at how much difference it made, but your explanation sounds bang on Tem.

Other things I've noticed since installing the valve are a much more stable peak boost level, and the sweetest turbo whoosh sound as it spools up - for some reason I didn't get that before s:? :? s:?

6 months in and its finally coming together s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

kanujunkie · April 29, 2006, 21:06

Quote from: "spit"6 months in and its finally coming together s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

ooohh heck please dont say that s:? :? s:? i'll have dont 6K by then

aaronjb · April 29, 2006, 21:08

Quote from: "kanujunkie"i'll have dont 6K by then

In a Yaris hire car....

Just kidding Stu - it'll be fine s:)

s:) You have the benefit of being able to learn from the other C2 owner's experiences s;)

s;)

kanujunkie · April 29, 2006, 21:10

Quote from: "aaronjb"In a Yaris hire car....

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!! s:scared: :scared: s:scared:

NOT A BLOODY YARIS!!!!

Quote from: "aaronjb"Just kidding Stu - it'll be fine s:) s:) You have the benefit of being able to learn from the other C2 owner's experiences s;) s;)

what my new best friends, Ste and Phil s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

spit · April 30, 2006, 10:07

Quote from: "kanujunkie"what my new best friends, Ste and Phil s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Yep just consider the wealth of combined technical experience at your disposal Stu!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:wink: :wink: s:wink: Hurrumph!

Should be a walk in the park for a man of your skills.

kanujunkie · May 1, 2006, 08:56

Quote from: "spit"
Quote from: "kanujunkie"what my new best friends, Ste and Phil s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
Yep just consider the wealth of combined technical experience at your disposal Stu!! s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:wink: :wink: s:wink: Hurrumph!

Thanx Ste, i'll pick your brains as and when then s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Quote from: "spit"Should be a walk in the park for a man of your skills.

funny!, what the hell do i know about car engines s:roll: :roll: s:roll: give me a jet engine anyday, far simpler

spit · May 25, 2006, 11:33

Hurrumph!

Dman you and your evolutionary theories Mr. Darwin ..... just as Stu embarks on a shiny new install it looks like I'm off the road s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

The holiday was an entirely trouble-free thrill in boost paradise, but one week back and I've got a hole in the manifold s:shock: :shock: s:shock: Some tell-tale noises started yesterday.

Its hard to see what the damage is even with a carefully-placed lamp and mirror, but I'll try to get some pics up tonight when I go underneath and tout for advice. From my restricted vantage point it seems to be adjacent to a weld.

In any case it'll have to come off to review the options (fix or go cast manifold, which'll require complete doctoring of the entire exhaust system).

Hurrumph again!

ps and my clutch is slipping too s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

kanujunkie · May 25, 2006, 13:07

oh mate s:(

s:( sorry to hear that

after all the fun you've had over the last few weeks what a downer s:(

s:(

keep your chin up mate, she'll be back on the road again soon, personally i'd recomend the cast manifold, its absolutely solid, only question in my mind would be the position of the turbo, is it the same??? sure Gas can answer that though. If you need anything, just shout though, i'm at your beck'n'call

spit · May 25, 2006, 13:21

Cheers Stu. I've previously enquired about the manifold and it would be a sensible investment but it won't be a straight swap. Some cut and shunt required on the exhaust s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

But as a longer-term fix it allows the options to get the DP/flexi and exhaust better aligned (less stressed) and also the possibility of a (pricey) strap-in high-flow cat to give me a better chance come MOT time.

Thats probably something for the future 'cos of funding issues at the moment, so I'm hoping that the existing lump can be professionally fettled to get me through the Summer at least. Will know better once everything is dismantled.

Gazz · May 25, 2006, 13:46

Sorry to hear the bad news Ste. s:evil: :evil: s:evil:

You've got my number if you need anything.

spit · May 25, 2006, 20:22

Thanks for the support Gazz. I'll certainly shout if I think of anything!

Well, I can't get ramped up and sorted until I can get the old car running and swap 'em round in the garage, so I'm going to get extremely drunk and cry instead s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Managed to get a view from above with a small mirror that confirms the worst fears though.....

The damage starts at the edge of a vertical supporting fin where it joins to the underside of cylinder 4's pipe. I can't see too clearly at the moment, but the damage looks quite extensive in the form of a crack beyond the very visible hole.

Oh poo!

LeeUK · May 25, 2006, 21:09

Sorry to hear the bad news Ste. Thinking aloud, if you wanted to change to a cast manifold would it also effect the turbo bracket position?

spit · May 25, 2006, 21:39

Cheers Lee

Quote from: "LeeUK"if you wanted to change to a cast manifold would it also effect the turbo bracket position?

Rats - I hadn't thought of that. Yes it would s:cry: :cry: s:cry:

Stu and I have concocted a cunning plan so we can get an idea of how the turbut position differs between my 'fold and the Cast one. Cast outlet is off-centre (mine is dead-centre), so I should be able to fabricate a support off the existing brace. Height and clearance might be an issue though. We'll see.

That said, finance dictates that I need to get the existing 'fold fixed if at all possible. So can I ask those who know about metal fatigue, fractures, welding (brazing?) etc. to get poised for some photos to pass judgement on, as I aint gotta clue s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Also, anyone who knows of a good firm who can assess the damage, advise on repair and cast an eye over the rest of the 'fold, please chip in.

*feeling a little lost*

Anonymous · May 25, 2006, 22:18

Sorry to hear about your problems.
Makes me glad I went down the TTET route, as I don't know one end of a spanner from the other.
Hope you get it sorted quickly and it's not too costly.

spynish · May 25, 2006, 23:27

Hi mate,

It's a PITA that cracked manifold s:roll: :roll: s:roll:
Here are my thoughts: If you need the car to be repaired as soon as possible, just weld it (it will hold for some time...). If you can wait a bit more (and this is the best option) you should change manifold. Then you have 2 options another tubular one (like now), which should be obviously stronger, or the new cast one.

Problem changing to a cast one is that you will have much more problems to fit everything again (I know it well s:? :? s:? ). Said this, and not doubting in the cast manifold quality, have to say that cast manifolds crack also. And though most people prefer these ones others think a well made tubular one is better.

So, what you need it's time and patient. Sure Gaspar takes care. Try to talk to him, he will give you some advice.

Don't know if all this makes you see things clearer...(I really doubt it... s:lol: :lol: s:lol: )

Know where I am.

Alberto