Siezed Precat Bolts? There might just be another way...

GSB · December 12, 2005, 19:53

Now, normally I'm of the opinion that if beating seven bells out of it, and heating it up with a gas axe until its just about melting fails to shift a siezed bolt or stud, its time to break out the drill and remove it in tiny pieces...

Now, theres another idea I wouldnt mind having a crack at...

(From the pages of "Engineering Technology", the magazine of The Institute of Incorperated Engineers)

Quote from: "Clever bods at the IIE"There is hardly anything worse for an engineer than a rusted nut, bolt or stud. Trying to free it can hold up a job, cause frustration and cost money. Now there is a new - and highly effective - way of releasing those stubborn components.

And it will stop engineers getting 'hot under the collar'.

It is called Loctite Freeze and Release - and that is exactly what it does.

Once the corroded parts have been cleaned of loose dirt and rust, the spray is applied directly from the can.

An application of between 5 and 10 seconds is enough to instantly chill seized and rusted parts down to an astonishing minus 43 deg C.

The exceptional shock-freeze effect produces a differential thermal contraction that creates microscopic cracks in the layer of rust.

This, in turn, allows the lubricant ingredient of the spray to wick directly into the rust by means of a capillary action.

The assembly can be easily dismantled after just one to two minutes reaction time.

As well as releasing the seized parts, Loctite Freeze and Release lubricates the parts and helps prevent future corrosion.

Loctite Freeze and Release is available in 400ml aerosol cans.

And here, for your delectation, and in anticipation of markiii ordering enough to freeze an olympic swimming pool in readiness for the next precat gutting meet, is the beast itself...

I have yet to try it out myself, but if anyone wants some, its available here for £6.95 a can:

m http://www.seamarknunn.co.uk/catalog/items/item4359.htm m

aaronjb · December 12, 2005, 19:59

Excellent sounding stuff - I think I'll invest in a can of that before I next start working on the car s:)

s:)

kanujunkie · December 12, 2005, 20:02

we use that sort of idea at work for putting bolts in to create high tolerance gaps, just that we use liquid nitrogen to freeze the bolts, problem is in my opinion is will it actually break the rust???l guess we could get a can and try it out at the next meet

Anonymous · December 12, 2005, 20:04

Quote from: "GSB"An application of between 5 and 10 seconds is enough to instantly chill seized and rusted parts down to an astonishing minus 43 deg C.

Being of the clumsy type, I wonder what a good blast on human flesh would be like..... s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

Just the sort of dumb-ass thing I will undoubtedly be accidentally testing....ahem. s:oops: :oops: s:oops:

Anonymous · December 12, 2005, 20:09

Liquid nitrogen is fine to put on your hands, as long as it's only briefly and you have your hands splayed apart.

Ask me how I know... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

aaronjb · December 12, 2005, 20:12

Quote from: "Ekona"Ask me how I know... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

*sits down like a child for a story*

Go on Dan, tell us s;)

s;)

Bet that stuff would have some handy other uses - like.. bah, forgotten what needs it now - y'know, heat one part up, freeze the other, put together and when they cool they lock solid..

heathstimpson · December 12, 2005, 22:29

Quote from: "Ekona"Liquid nitrogen is fine to put on your hands, as long as it's only briefly and you have your hands splayed apart.

Ask me how I know... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

They use liquid nitrogen to burn warts etc off and that requires a long exposure to burn deeply s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

That new gear looks impressive so must get some at work and try it out. cheers for the info Grant s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

kanujunkie · December 12, 2005, 22:54

Quote from: "heathstimpson"
Quote from: "Ekona"Liquid nitrogen is fine to put on your hands, as long as it's only briefly and you have your hands splayed apart.

Ask me how I know... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:
They use liquid nitrogen to burn warts etc off and that requires a long exposure to burn deeply s:shock: :shock: s:shock:

That new gear looks impressive so must get some at work and try it out. cheers for the info Grant s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

trust me, what they use aint pure liqiud nitrogen and is airated anyway, pure liquid nitrogen has a far more damageing effect as it boils down into your skin, i've never seen the effects but they are dramatic

i can get hold of cans of freezer spray from work BTW, same airated version used by docs

rmowbray · December 13, 2005, 00:14

If it "does exactly what it says on the tin" then it's well worth the price IMO.

A lot cheaper than an impact wrench and compressor and a lot better than shredded knuckles. s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

Joe Schmoe · December 13, 2005, 05:39

BUT, what would it do to ants? The delinquent in me MUST know. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

Tem · December 13, 2005, 06:24

I wonder if that stuff is any different from the normal -50C cold spray?

kanujunkie · December 13, 2005, 06:58

Quote from: "Joe Schmoe"BUT, what would it do to ants? The delinquent in me MUST know. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Tem · December 13, 2005, 09:23

Quote from: "kanujunkie"
Quote from: "Joe Schmoe"BUT, what would it do to ants? The delinquent in me MUST know. s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

I can tell you what it does to flies s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

Catch one with a glass, freeze it, glue its legs to piece of paper and wait for it to unfreeze s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Of course there's also the professional approach to this:
m http://www.yumlum.com/fly_airplane/fly_airplane.htm m

(oops, was this a thread drift s:oops: :oops: s:oops: )

kanujunkie · December 13, 2005, 12:40

Quote from: "Tem"(oops, was this a thread drift s:oops: :oops: s:oops: )

might be but i've got to give that a go s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

Anonymous · December 13, 2005, 12:58

Delivery is being charged at £4.95 so being the tight git that I am, i have had a search round and found the 400ml can for £4.95 at RS.

I will give it a try at the weekend.

Anonymous · December 13, 2005, 12:59

Quote from: "Tem"Of course there's also the professional approach to this:
m http://www.yumlum.com/fly_airplane/fly_airplane.htm m

why do you do this too me?? you know i'm gonna have to try this out ! ! !

Anonymous · December 13, 2005, 17:40

Quote from: "aaronjb"
Quote from: "Ekona"Ask me how I know... s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

*sits down like a child for a story*

Go on Dan, tell us s;) s;)

s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

We had a company come in one night to freeze a 6" cast iron cold water main pipe in the main plantroom at the airport (the main valve was buggered and needed replacing), and they used pure liquid nitrogen to freeze it.

They carefully wrapped the pipe with a thermal coat, and then went outside to their van to fill a bucket (!) up with this liquid nitrogen, and then carefully climbed a set of steps and threw the lot inside the jacket. Thing is, I was quite close to them watching this go on, and when one of them said "Put out your hand for a minute mate, and don't close it up whatever you do!", I did so without thinking. They then threw the remains of the nitrogen over my hand which was a bloody shock, I can tell you! s:shock: :shock: s:shock: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

It's a very weird sensation: Ice-cold, yet it leaves your hand all tingly-warm for a few seconds after you've shaken it all off. They were telling me afterwards that there's no danger at all in doing that, as long as your hand is fully splayed apart: Otherwise, the nitrogen sets in the creases in your palm and rips your flesh open when you try and move it. Ouch.

Another busy day at work for me! s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · December 13, 2005, 18:36

I've used cold sprays like when fitting bearing races into aluminium gear box cases, it's always worked well.
So well in fact that I took a can of it home when I had to change a HOT tap on my wash basin, a can of it was enough to create an ice plug which gave me enough time to change the tap.
Much easier than stopping the water and draining the tank.

On a bolt though i'd be surprised if it didn't make it too brittle to undo without snapping it off.

does it specify a time to leave it soaking?

Tem · December 14, 2005, 08:18

Quote from: "nighthawk"On a bolt though i'd be surprised if it didn't make it too brittle to undo without snapping it off.

I doubt that makes much difference to metal. Remember that some people actually drive their cars at these temperatures and they don't snap either s;)

s;)

Anonymous · December 14, 2005, 08:19

Quote from: "Tem"
Quote from: "nighthawk"On a bolt though i'd be surprised if it didn't make it too brittle to undo without snapping it off.

.........some people actually drive their cars at these temperatures and they don't snap either s;) s;)

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

aaronjb · December 14, 2005, 09:25

Quote from: "Ekona"Another busy day at work for me! s:wink: :wink: s:wink: s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

s:lol: :lol: s:lol: It's a hard life, eh? s;)

s;)

Anonymous · December 14, 2005, 23:23

Superb idea, Grant. Sounds like this product would work.

Similar to one of the "fourth-line" arrows in my bolt-removing quiver, to whit: Heat the bolt to red-hot, then slap it with a cold rag. This stuff sounds even better, since it has the penetrating agent included. Can't wait to read a review from someone using it. For some reason, my Spyder seems to have had an overzealous crew assembling it, and they torqued an awful lot of my bolts down to absurd degrees of tightness.

aaronjb · December 15, 2005, 07:41

Quote from: "southerneditor"For some reason, my Spyder seems to have had an overzealous crew assembling it, and they torqued an awful lot of my bolts down to absurd degrees of tightness.

I think they're all like that - when I did Dan's (ekona's) brakes every single bolt required a breaker bar, despite most of them only having a torque requirement of some 30lb/ft..

One of us should visit the Toyota factory and turn all their airguns down a bit s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

Anonymous · December 15, 2005, 10:20

Yeh, mine is the same, everything is just so tight. Tight as a banjo. I think some major powerlifting jap must have put mine together. s:D

s:D

Anonymous · December 15, 2005, 13:16

Quote from: "Tem"
Quote from: "nighthawk"On a bolt though i'd be surprised if it didn't make it too brittle to undo without snapping it off.

I doubt that makes much difference to metal. Remember that some people actually drive their cars at these temperatures and they don't snap either s;) s;)

driving is not an issue though, even in cold climates, the bolts would never see such a thermal shock, they'd go from cold to hot as the engine's heat transfered to the bolt. Going from ambient to -40 in a few seconds will make them very very brittle.

Who want's to test it s:shock: :shock: s:shock: