injectors

[Anonymous]

I'm getting the '2 mapped with my new pfc soon and I was thinking of any improvents I could make to the system.

At the moment I have an xtra 750cc injector supply the extra fuel needed controlled by an mf2 unit.

I was thinking of getting rid of this and getting bigger injectors and let the pfc handle all the fuelling, I think it should make for a more accurate fuelling situation. I'm wondering are therer any issues I haven't foreseen?

The car makes 210 bhp (crank) at 9psi as is.
The mf2 unit is rpm referenced and has a MAP aswell my MAF. If I get rid of the mf2 the MAP will go too. Is the stock MAF capable of handling this?

Also what size injectors to go for is another question. I'm hoping with a good pfc map I might get close to 230bhp. I know PE do injectors but I'm wondering is there a cheaper route??

Even with the top mount IC my inlet temps are very low. The rotrex creates negligible heat in the engine bay. I measured my inlet temps at 38 degC pre IC 28 degC post.

Again any wisdom would be appreciated. Also changing the engine soon as my own is taking a "bit" of oil.

[Tem]

I'm wondering are therer any issues I haven't foreseen?

You missed one possible problem, bigger injectors might affect the idle. However 550cc injectors are still "small enough" to get a steady idle at 400rpm with PFC.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

The car makes 210 bhp (crank) at 9psi as is.
The mf2 unit is rpm referenced and has a MAP aswell my MAF. If I get rid of the mf2 the MAP will go too. Is the stock MAF capable of handling this?

The stock MAF can handle about 300hp. After that you need a MAF with another scale, or a bigger pipe for the stock MAF.
(or completely new MAF, for example from TT Supra)

Also what size injectors to go for is another question. I'm hoping with a good pfc map I might get close to 230bhp. I know PE do injectors but I'm wondering is there a cheaper route??

A rough rule of thumb is that the cc equals hp in 6-cyl engine. For 4-cyl engine, just divide by 6 and multiply with 4. So for example a 500cc injectors would be good for +300hp.

There are very cheap routes to injectors. Venom is the first that comes to mind. But just stay away from them, they are crappy and you don't want crappy parts to control one of the most important features of a turboed car.

[aaronjb]

Moving away from a '5th injector' setup is almost always better - you want your injectors as close to the intake ports as possible really (while allowing for atomisation), and the further away you get the greater the chance of fuel drop-out.

It'll give you a much more finely controllable fuelling setup.

(Yes, before someone points out - there are exceptions.. For example you wouldn't want to run 4x1500cc injectors on a small engine, as you can't get a pulse width small enough at low load indices, so you'd run 8x750cc and do it that way)


And I was beaten to it by Tem.


Anyway - one thing I have to say. Change the tyres before you start!  s;) s;)

[markiii]

Can get Hass injectors for circa $450 for 380CC?

PM me if you need them

[Anonymous]

prolex are doing the power enterprise 550 injectors for £69 each if I recall correctly, or alternatively you could run with celica 190 inj (330 I think) which you should be able to pick up cheaply 2nd hand.

But if you run this route then send them off to be ultrasonically cleaned first, I can give you a link to a good company if you do.

prolex inj   m http://www.mr2roc.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15320 m

[Anonymous]

will the stock fuel pump be good for 250 bhp?

Tem, I get that the 4 cyl is 2/3 of the 6cyl but are those power figures crank or wheels? Plus, I read in that excellent haynes turbo/sc book you recommended that you should never run injectors above 80% duty cycle.
So lets say I'm aiming for 240bhp (crank) I would need 360cc injectors but that would be at 100% duty cycle so....I should get 405cc injectors?

[markiii]

will the stock fuel pump be good for 250 bhp?

Tem, I get that the 4 cyl is 2/3 of the 6cyl but are those power figures crank or wheels? Plus, I read in that excellent haynes turbo/sc book you recommended that you should never run injectors above 80% duty cycle.
So lets say I'm aiming for 240bhp (crank) I would need 360cc injectors but that would be at 100% duty cycle so....I should get 405cc injectors?

stock pump and 380cc injectors on mine is happily copyng with 267bhp at teh crank

[Tem]

will the stock fuel pump be good for 250 bhp?

Yes, it seems to handle that.  s8) s8)

Tem, I get that the 4 cyl is 2/3 of the 6cyl but are those power figures crank or wheels? Plus, I read in that excellent haynes turbo/sc book you recommended that you should never run injectors above 80% duty cycle.
So lets say I'm aiming for 240bhp (crank) I would need 360cc injectors but that would be at 100% duty cycle so....I should get 405cc injectors?

Crank hp.

The rough formula I mentioned already includes the duty cycle.  s;) s;)

Personally I think it's always good to get bigger injectors than what you need. You want more power eventually. Everyone always does.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[loadswine]

Is there a way to check on the injector capacity by colour coding or something, as I am not sure what is fitted to mine.

[Tem]

Is there a way to check on the injector capacity by colour coding or something, as I am not sure what is fitted to mine.

The colour itself doesn't tell much.

Is it a stock injector? From MR2 or Celica? Or something completely different?

[Anonymous]

I can get 380cc injectors from mwr for 330 dollars (sorry mark just noticed) for the 1zz. Price looks good,anyone had any experience with these? Are they easy to fit?

[spit]

I've seen white, yellow and green injectors but no idea if the colouring is universal/size-related!

Different clips and fuel O-ring groove widths might help distinguish too?



Top ones here are stock, bottom ones are 380s from MWR. IIRC Alberto has yellow ones(!) - 310 or 330 ish (I forget  s:oops: :oops: s:oops:  )

380s from MWR - great! Easy enough to fit but you need to change the clips Kaiser. I put flyleads on the new clips in the comfort of the kitchen before hacking about on the car's harness. And (optionally) I used a double O-ring at the top cos I wasn't convinced at how loose they felt with just a single ring - all covered somewhere in my C2 install thread.

[markiii]

they have come down in price,

check the shipping though, MWR usually charge like a wounded bull for shipping


think it was $80 last time I checked

[Tem]

they have come down in price,

check the shipping though, MWR usually charge like a wounded bull for shipping

think it was $80 last time I checked

Their online shopping system always quotes UPS, which is bloody expensive.

If you ask Matt directly, he will also ship through USPS, which is more reasonable.  s8) s8)

[philster_d]

I might be upgrading mine this year to the next level   s:twisted: :twisted: s:twisted:

[spit]

Nigel. For completeness, here's Alberto's 310/330'er

[Anonymous]

If I just put in new injectors now could i just drive as normal orwould they run at the same duty as standard and hence overfuel?
I have to travel a bit of a distance to get the car mapped and I'd prefer to put the injectors in myself rather than have to get the tuning place to do it when I get there at extra cost.

Clips??? what clips? ahhh sounds complicated. I hate when you buy something for the car and have to get other bits to make it work,thats why my car spends as much time out of commision as it does on the road.

[spit]

It'll overfuel  s:cry: :cry: s:cry:  

Clips? Here y'go - Clicky

MWR 380s come with 'em.

[Anonymous]

unfortunately unlike the e-manage/profec set up you dont just have the facility to change the injector size with your aquamist unit.  

In all honesty I would probs get the mapper to do it at the same time as the PFC, its not a big job and therefore not much cost I would have thought

[loadswine]

Is there a way to check on the injector capacity by colour coding or something, as I am not sure what is fitted to mine.

The colour itself doesn't tell much.

Is it a stock injector? From MR2 or Celica? Or something completely different?

I'm not sure where thay come from and I haven't seen them up close, though I will be taking a look once we get some reliably dry weather. The car came already converted and although it was said to have uprated injectors, I remember Thor saying that at the higher boost setting they tried, the injectors were near maximum duty. I assume from that, they might not have much more capacity than stock, but I don't really know. I think I need to get a hand commander for the PFC which my car is running.
Ste, useful stuff with the colours, I'll see if I can take a pic to check with the ones you have posted.
Cheers guys.

[Anonymous]

from these discussions, do we think idle will be easily obtainable with the PE 550 injectors and e-manage, or are they a little large for our application?

[markiii]

Hass guys in teh states were ok with 380cc, 420cc but have had issues at 630cc

not sure that helps

[Anonymous]

might give it a miss then for now, cheers bud

[loadswine]

Not the same continuing this thread really, but its in the inquisitive spirit!
I took the cover off the top of the engine today and wondered if anyone has any clues as to what type of injectors these are?



I have an idea that they might be PE 550cc jobs, but that's only going by the colour code PE use. They don't look the same as the pics I have seen of Ste's stock items.

[Tem]

Blitz 525cc, I have them myself.  s8) s8)

 m http://www.blitz.co.jp/products/injector/injector.htm m