What 1st for performance?

[NorthandSouth]

Hi
When my partners roadster (must get her to register in her own name) warranty expires in a couple of months she wants to do a few mods to improve performance, what do you guys think is the best way to go in order of bang per buck (Induction kit?). shes mad about this car   s:) s:)   keeps going on about wanting to go to a meet to see what you guys and gals have done to there cars, so the next get together in the NW I think we`ll be there.

Mike (and Lynne)

[rtbiscuit]

in the interests of safety i recommend the search button  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

(some people get flamed for not searching first)  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

but to help i would search under the following items:

Induction:

PPE - Should be the same noise as the apexi (uses same filter) - bhp gains
Apexi - Fantastic Noise - No gains
Mark iii pipe and TRD panel filter - not as much noise - BHP gains

Exhaust:

H&S - twin exhaust - BHP gains
TTE - Twin Exhaust - no BHP gains

Manifold / Header:

CHE Header
PPE manifold


just to give you a starting point, there are others, but these i think are the best, partly because i either have them or want them.

[spit]

Mike, Lynne: welcome to the ROC.

Coming along to a meet is probably the best way to establish what you like the look of. Performance mods on the '2 aren't just limited to stuff in the engine bay. Lowering springs, for example, give you a cosmetic and handling improvement. Chassis bracing transforms the cornering etc etc....

If you're free, pop along to the Wrexham meet on October 6th. There'll be a good gathering of '2s there in various stages of Mod  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  Link is ....umm.... HERE.

[Anonymous]

Mike,
A search through the performance section will reveal a host of opinions on this subject.

What is your budget (her budget) £100's or £1000's?

Below are some suggestions for you to search around

1/ Induction kits will not see you gain any real power but some can greatly improve your driving experience by increasing induction roar.
Popular choice would be the Apexi air intake (lots of great noise, marginal power loss possible due to heat soak) or a TRD/K&N replacement panel filter and a markiii induction pipe - nice change in induction note - possible slight bhp gain (1-2bhp negligable).

2/ Exhausts - again most will only make the car sound better not many gains from simply changing the back box.

3/ Manifold - Swap out the stock item and it's nasty precats for a stainless sports number. Popular makes include :
Che - Cheap (£150 from US) has seen gains of 7-10bhp over stock
PPE - More expensive but reasonable power gains when combined with their highflow cat.
Get one custom made - around £500

4/ Decat pipe

5/ Piggy back ECU's - Emanage/unichip - reasonable gains in torque.bhp when combined with other sensible mods (£300-£500 + mapping costs)

As you can see modifying the stock engine with simple NA mods is unlikely to get you more than 15-20bhp over stock but it can be enough to improve drivability and response but the costs of multiple mods adds up.

For serious power gains you will need to look at turbo kits.
Popular models include TTE,PPE,HASS,C2. A turbo running high pressures can see you over 250bhp! Prices start at around £2000.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Oh and what Ste said - think seriously about chassis upgrades (lowering springs,bracing etc) they can seriously enhance grin factor and allow you to push that envelope a little further without provocation.

[NorthandSouth]

Arrrrg I`ve been hit with the use the search response   s:shock: :shock: s:shock:  
Only joking
Thanks for the responses
I`ll tell lynne about the wrexham meet though when she sees your cars it could get expensive   s:D s:D  

Che manifold looks a good 1st (paranoid about precats after 2 weeks of reading posts here   s:) s:)  )

then panel filter
it had 17" Alloys when she got it and I think they look better.

I have a Mondy TDCI about 160 bhp but hers is more fun   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[spit]

Ché is a lot of kit for the money, but it is built to a price-point and there have been some production quality issues for some customers. That said, Ché does seem to be proactively addressing people's concerns.

This is just a heads-up rather than a complete put-off  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  I'm sure others will disagree and say that they're great, and for the price I'd have to agree with that. Horses for courses and all that.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[mrsmr2]

I would go for the chassis bracing first before thinking about power.  I've just had most of the Corky stage 3 bracing set and the difference in handling is amazing.

After that, you might well find that you don't need any extra power  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[Anonymous]

Most of the problems with the Che have come from using poor quality fibre manifold gaskets which then blow.

After I changed to the standard steel jobbie I had no problems.

They are obviously built to lower tolerences than the genuine TRD items but nothing that can't be worked around and at around £20/bhp it's great value, although I understand it doesn't combine well with a decat pipe.

All the best anyway.  s:D s:D

[dreambackup]

let me be straight.

big performance changes are only a couple:

- chassis braces and suspension (biggest improvement)
- turbo or 2ZZ

the rest is just for "fun" (induction kits, dual exhaust, precat-less header, etc, etc...) and won't keep you entertained long  s:? :? s:?

[Anonymous]

I would agree with Dream backup. Gaining 1 or 2 bhp may sound great but on the "bum dyno" it won't really make a difference. Going down the forced induction route is expensive, can be troublesome, but would definately make a difference. So for pounds per extra cm of grin I would say it has to be suspension and then bracing.

[uktotty]

Funny, I thought the Unichip gave the most bhp for the least gbp.

Might have to do that when I have done all the other bits  s:) s:)

[Anonymous]

Funny, I thought the Unichip gave the most bhp for the least gbp.

Might have to do that when I have done all the other bits  s:) s:)

You're right Unichip is one of the best value performance mods. In my opinion mod like this:

Markiii inlet pipe -£40?, Corky's antiflex brace, Unichip. Exhaust system doesn't really offer much. Performance manifold does but can be quite pricey - although a Che header may be worth a shot if you can get one cheaper than a Unichip. Not really worth going for an induction system unless you're happy with just more induction noise (this is not necessarily bad - Apexi's sound awesome!)

[evileye_wrx]

BHP wise I found a decat pipe, Che's, gave more than engine management. I've had both unichip and emanage. If going for bhp I'd go for the pipe with Che's manifold to remove the pre-cats.  

I would say that bracing should probably come first. Corky's, or similar, breastplate and front tower strut brace, TRD looks the meatiest of them all.

[Anonymous]

The way I started was:

1  Tein Superstreet - replacement shocks
2. Front top brace - Cusco
3. Anti roll bar links plus mountings - twos R us.
4. Goodridge brake lines and fluid change DOT 5.1

The engine mods came a little later, mainly because I felt the need to get the car driving better, I've not gone for the other bracing as mine is a late 04 car, so I can't really see the benefits, especially with the Teins fitted.

As for engine mods, the world's your oyster my friend, I'm sticking N/A at the moment and enjoying every bit of it.

As for ECU's - you can only really consider Apexi PFC all the rest are "piggy" - backs and can't get anywhere near it for performance improvement.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Rob.

[northernalex]

As for ECU's - you can only really consider Apexi PFC all the rest are "piggy" - backs and can't get anywhere near it for performance improvement.  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:lol: :lol: s:lol:    s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

Rob.

You'll need to buy a stanalone immobiliser if you go this route though.. But the a'pexi is the best.

[mrsmr2]

The engine mods came a little later, mainly because I felt the need to get the car driving better, I've not gone for the other bracing as mine is a late 04 car, so I can't really see the benefits, especially with the Teins fitted.

The new Corky under car bracing makes a huge difference.  My car has gone from being understeery under power on a roundabout to almost neutral, and I can carry more speed into a bend.  The Teins will help a bit but won't reduce the natural flexing of the car.

Well worth a look.

[ChrisGB]

My tuppence...

If you want more power without going forced induction, in order of rising cost, I would go for:

PPE Manifold and high flow cat with Che catback exhaust

2ZZ engine swap

Camry V6 swap

Or alternatively, go forced induction with a turbo or supercharger kit.

For the handling, I would say that bracing transforms the car in a huge way, improving control and feedback to make the car much more of a drivers tool. Corkys (3.0 Racing) front middle and rear bracing all have noticeable effects.

Cannot comment on the effect of coilovers yet  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  but will be able to when they arrive.

Chris

[Anonymous]

I noticed most of the replies discussed power/aesthetic gains from aftermarket exhaust and headers. However, jus out of curiosity, what do you guys think of simply upgrading the clutch/flywheel as a mutually exclusive mod?

I was wondering the gains in terms of outright acceleration and driveability, which would be the superior mod. For example, a full TTE exhaust setup vs a TRD lightened flywheel and clutch plate.   s:?: :?: s:?:

[Anonymous]

The Teins will help a bit but won't reduce the natural flexing of the car.

I think you will find they help more than you think, especially when you can adjust them to suit your driving at any point in time.

You need to put this is to perspective, if you want lotus performance - buy a lotus, if you want a good all rounder buy a 2 and accept it's faults, I accept on the older models bracing is the way forward but on the later models why add more weight when Toyota already did.   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

As I said all along - it's down to individuals tastes and of cause what they can afford.

Rob.

[heathstimpson]

Funny, I thought the Unichip gave the most bhp for the least gbp.

Might have to do that when I have done all the other bits  s:) s:)

You can always buy mine Russ and give it a go  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:

[ChrisGB]

The Teins will help a bit but won't reduce the natural flexing of the car.

I think you will find they help more than you think, especially when you can adjust them to suit your driving at any point in time.

You need to put this is to perspective, if you want lotus performance - buy a lotus, if you want a good all rounder buy a 2 and accept it's faults, I accept on the older models bracing is the way forward but on the later models why add more weight when Toyota already did.   s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  

As I said all along - it's down to individuals tastes and of cause what they can afford.

Rob.

Hmmm

The stiffer the shell, the better the springs and shocks do their job. The key to the Lotus Elise is its rigidity. While the coilovers will give you the ability to tailor the ride to some extent, my personal feeling was that the stock shell was just not rigid enough for the extra spring rates.

As for bracing, Toyota put more on later cars, but the differences are still huge, the MSMB makes a noticeable difference over a breastplate, which makes a huge difference over stock on any age MR2. As for the rear bracing, the car will communicate from its contact patches in a way the 03 car never could. The bracing is about the biggest upgrade you can do for this car IMO. Sure it is no Elise, but with the Corky bracing, it is closer to an Elise than it is to an late model unbraced MR2.

Chris

[Wabbitkilla]

From my experience i'd say the bracing is a no-brainer, you will be pleasantly surprised by the change in handling manners.
Coil overs are great - they really are, but if you don't want to go the whole hog then Tein s-tech or TTE springs improve the handling too.
Clutch / Flywheel? Ah yes, now there's a good subject. With standard power output the oem clutch is fine. The TRD lightened flywheel loses you some torque (proven on the dyno), however it allows quicker and smoother changes. In my opinion it's a good addition as the torque loss is very low down and negligible when driving, but when combined with a quick shift it's a joy to have.

At the end of the day it's a combination of multiple factors that make the car a more enjoyable drive. Although the 2 has fine dynamics going for it in standard form, they can all be improved and we've all learned even the smallest changes make huge differences in those dynamics. It's never going to the Lotus, you have to make concessions to the comforts the 2 has to offer, and frankly even coil overs aren't a match for proper susppension.
But a well braced, suspended, forced induction 2 well driven could give the Lotus a hard time - a very hard time on real roads  s:wink: :wink: s:wink:  
Look at my garage, look at FGrobs garage and you'll see two different approaches to a NA car. They both drive very nicely.
I'm gradually building up to forced induction, but can't quite afford it - yet. Engine swap is a bit radical even for me, but the results you get from a turbo can be hihly amusing and very useable as we've seen with Evileye xc's turbo only this week.

IMO, sort out you chassis bracing, suspension, brakes and gear change (quick shifter and flywheel at least) first.
Then decide on engine performance.

Of course getting rid of the pre-cats does help too  s:lol: :lol: s:lol:

[NorthandSouth]

Thanks for all the answers, all very interesting. As soon as the warranty is up I thinks its going to be the Che header then checkout what she needs to stiffen the car up, not got a load of dosh so will be doing a bit at a time so question is which bracing to buy first that will make most difference.   s:D s:D

[rtbiscuit]

a breast plate first, corkies or cusco.

then an FSB (front Strut Brace)

the breast plate gives you similar body stiffness to running with a hard top, and the FSB ties your front suspension together better, which reduces the flo9aty feeling at the front when at speed, i think it is meant  to reduce the potential for aqua planning at the front. and helps the car travel better over rougher surfaces.

after that i'd lower it, which is what i am hoping to do next.