New front speakers poor sound

[Eastsoutheast]

Hi All

I have just spent (and feel like wasted) approx 8 hours fitting upgraded speakers for a worse sound. I fitted Vibe black air 6.5" component speakers (on sale in Halfords reduced from £130 to £100) which I read a number of great reviews for.

I made MDF brackets using a template kindly provided by loadswine. I spent ages on decent prep doing the following,

Sanding and varnishing MDF templates (waterproof now).
Fitting dynamat between door and MDF bracket.
Fitting foam seals between speakers and MDF bracket.
Fitting dynamat to inside of door and in key places.
Meticulously running and routing the new cables.
Trimming door panel for tweeter installation.
Using heavy duty grease (learnt from an old friend who used to fit stereos) on all clips that could potentially rattle to damp rattles.

Finished the passenger side only so I could compare speakers (old and new).

The new speaker has no bass sounding thin and quiter than the stock speaker. The stock speaker produces so much more bass. The new tweeter sounds better than the old one but that's the only improvement.

When you examine the stock speaker it appears that the plastic and cardboard surround likely act as a type of speaker box. I wonder if this helps the stock speaker produce its bass.

I am gutted and not sure what to do next. I can't even refit the old speakers as I modified the tweeter bracket and would have to remove the dynamat from the door where the stock speakers go.

Any suggestions or similar experiences?

Thanks
Brian

[loadswine]

I think you really need both new speakers in position, to judge Brian. It could be that the stock speaker has less impedance or is easier for the head unit to drive, making it an unfair comparison.
 Did you run new cables from the head unit, or use the existing wiring in the doors? If you used the existing, polarity may be an issue. From memory the +ve is pink on passenger side and green on driver side.
The Alpines are still here, if you want then.  s;) s;)

[nadeemxb]

When I did mine I had the same issue. Removed the door card again and realised the speaker rubber was touching the door card which obviously killed the sound. Likely not the same for you but just in case!

[adamjob]

Seal the whole front of the door with dynamat or similar
Totally agree with changing both speakers as the sensitivity will be different on both speakers

[Anonymous]

I assume you have crossovers with your new speakrs? Are you sure have connected them up correctly? are there any switches or adjustments on the cross overs?

[Leethesparky]

Hiya,

Few things to check....
Polarity on the input side of the crossover,
You have wired the speakers to the correct output on the crossover, ie high frequency to tweeters and low/mid to the 6"ers,
You have not trapped a cable anywhere, it could be leaking to earth, will definitely kill the bass.
The deadening Matt is not close to the speaker, it needs room to breath,
You need to wire up the other door, the difference in impedance will confuse the head unit

[Eastsoutheast]

I double and triple checked the wires and went by the info on the forums (pink and green plus). I even changed the cables around just in case. The rubber does not foul on the door, have checked. Installing both to get a balanced impedance etc makes sense just don't want to go through the same aggro again for an even worse sound!!!

Loadswine, I just missed out on those speakers I had an active bid on when we met (otherwise I would have bought yours) hence buying a new pair from halfords.

Must give a positive shout to halfords, the fitted a Sony head unit for me with an integrated phone mic, I went back complaining about the inability of the mic to pick up my voice. The fitter (arranged by the store manager) spent 90 minutes fitting a genuine Sony external mic where I wanted and charged me zero £££'s. Great service relieved.

I will for the drivers side speaker next weekend and am going to get a decent amp to power them and go from there.

Thanks all

[loadswine]

The head unit should provide sufficient power to give a reasonable sound. I would try the matching speaker installation first, then start troubleshooting.

[s12vea]

I've had those speakers before and they have a high rms power rating. The stock headunit or even an aftermarket headunit hasn't got enough power to run then. They will sound quieter than stock and little to no bass when the volume is increased as they are being under powered. I fitted a 2 channel amp to power them properly and they sounded amazing.

Be careful not to damage them due to lack of power

[loadswine]

Ah, there you go, good reason then.

[Eastsoutheast]

S12vea

That's what I read in the reviews with everyone saying how good they sounded. I have a couple of options and am not sure which way to go,

Return and replace with a pair of Focals - a bit more but seem to get good reviews on here.
Leave and have a quality amp installed to power them - if they don't improve as required try and return (will be in a few weeks so may not get away with returning if I wait).
Return and replace wth the Focals and a power amp. Fit another pair of components or 6*9 in a MDF panel behind the seats and add my Pioneer 10" sub and alpine mono amp.

S12eva what amp did you use to power them please?

Thanks
Brian

[MartinC]

I replaced my stock speakers with some Edge ED206 Co-Axials.  They are driven by a Pioneer DEH-X5500BT head unit.  Sound was OK with stock speakers, but there was an immediate improvement with the Edge ones.  No need for an additional Amp.

[loadswine]

I have used Alpine X series speakers in a couple of cars, which had a reasonably high input rating, but achieved excellent results from just a head unit. I really would get that other speaker set in first, then have a listen.

[Gazbills]

Tend to find most of the Vibe range need some decent punch behind them to get any decent sound out of them. Swapped out my Vibes for JL audio with a much lower minimum RMS and now the midrange /bass sounds twice as good. The black air range need a min of 55w rms, most OEM headunits are around 15-20w RMS.

Gaz

[Eastsoutheast]

The general consensus seems to be that the black airs should sound great with decent power. My head unit was changed a couple of weeks ago to a new Sony unit with 55W rms although clearly this is not powerful enough.

I am torn between changing for a pair of Focals or getting an amp installed and seeing how much the black airs improve. Also looking at getting some closed cell foam, cutting a ring and placing this between the door card and speaker. It's cheap to buy and may help.

Are there any issues with installing an amp in the storage area behind the seats? I know it's possible water can leak if the drainage holes get blocked so thinking the amp should be fitted to the back wall meaning it's off the floor.

I do want to try a sub and/or a pair of 6*9's fitted onto a piece of MDF behind the seats so a 4 channel amp makes sense (already have a mono amp for the sub).

Regards
Brian

[cptspaulding]

For what it's worth, my own experience was:

1. Fit new Alpine speakers - still sh!t
2. Buy Alpine amp to go between the head unit & the speakers - discovered my Blaupunkt after-market unit was bottom of the range with no phono out (grrr)
3. Buy new DAB head unit & glass mount antenna - tried this without the amp - improvement but not massive.
4. Installed aforementioned amplifier - terrific sound (although still dwarfed by the Mrs' Honda estate with subwoofer, grrr again)

[Eastsoutheast]

I am returning these speakers and replacing with some Focal PS165's. I am also going to fully dampen the doors, close off the gaps and fit some closed cell foam between the speakers and door cards.

I have started a separate thread for help RE the rear install and will add any progress updates as I go.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Brian

[Eastsoutheast]

The focal speakers were quite an improvement and the amp that's on its way should improve the sound further. The tweeters were a really poor fir in the door cards so I need to be creative to make them look perfect.

Thanks

[loadswine]

The fit can make a difference. I put my Infinity Kappa components in today, doors all sealed and deadened, really pleased with the sound. The tweeters were a really good fit in the existing tweeter hole in the door. I certainly recommend the fittings that Infinity use.

[Eastsoutheast]

I used dynamat to totally seal all the holes in the drivers door (had already done the passenger side and not sealed the holes) when I fitted the speaker. Comparing the sound I actually prefer the sound from the passenger door. Everything I read within various audio forums suggested filling in all the gaps would be beneficial.

I am going to run a small line of silicon adhesive/sealer around the tweeter which should finish them off well.

When I first used the MDF template and fitted to the door I had gaps between the MDF and metal. I used 3 layers of laminate flooring foam cut to shape between the MDF and door which totally sealed the gaps and made quite a decent improvement. I also used a carefully cut layer between the speaker and MDF to seal.

I had an annoying rattle in the drivers door which I could easily get to rattle with a tap on the door. It's in the handle area but I could find nothing loose, I sprayed WD40 silicon in the area and touch wood the rattle has gone.

I re trimmed the door card flashes in black leather yesterday so all traces of red now removed.

Getting there slowly!!!

[loadswine]

That's good stuff Brian!  s:) s:)

[Eastsoutheast]

These cars certainly get under your skin in a good way. Every owner I have met (most of them through this forum) has been a real gent which is another plus.

I am still debating which way to go with the rear speakers as I don't want to cause extra rattles or an unnatural sound balance. May start next weekend if the weather remains dry.

Cheers and see you at ding day if not before.