Dead engine, what next

[Smcknighty]

My car is a high mileage (134k) 1zz which has coilovers, sp240 components except the cat (but not sure about the tune, might be 200 might be 240), and bracing. It's a 2001, it was pristine when I bought it 3 years ago but now has a few more scratches and scrapes than I'd like. Alloys need refurb, needs new tyres.

It's been amazing fun to drive, on the full power map it's blisteringly fast and fun. The map limits boost until above 3k rpm to try and save the clutch, above 3k it's amazing.

I always knew the stock clutch had a limited lifespan, I also knew the engine likely had a limited life with the turbo providing that much power through it. My plan was:

Wheel refurb and new tyres (now)
Better clutch (when it went, thought a year)
Engine rebuild (maybe with forged parts)  and return to sports cat. (Again when it went, I honestly felt like that was a way off as it drove so well, I also expected gradual decline)
Remap to release more power through the whole rev range aka the real sp240

Now, couple of weeks back I thought the clutch started slipping. Symptoms were fast increase in revs without equivalent increase in speed followed by BANG bouncing off the Rev limiter. Woah, time to replace clutch I thought. I've been driving it since on the low power map. No sign of same problem. Until today, after a bit of driving with no apparent signs I floored it in an attempt to see if there was a tiny slip. Instead, I got wheee bang crash engine light followed by coast to the side of the road. After this I tried the starter, it couldn't turnover. Whilst waiting for Rac I pushed it when out of gear and then tried in gear, couldn't get engine to turnover, it just rocked and clicked.

After return home after tow we tried to fire it up again. Got it turning over, wouldn't start with clutch engaged. I depressed the clutch, it fired up but sounded incredibly clattery.

So, now what.

Something is bust, maybe head and clutch,  maybe the turbo overboosted and disintegrated.

What do I do now? Obviously figure out what broke, but what then? I don't want to do it myself, I'm too busy with other projects and work, my wife would kill me.

I'm thinking:

Engine rebuild with forged parts by headcase (for example) = ?
Clutch kit, maybe also flywheel and fit = ?
Map (or upgrade ecu and map) = ??
Turbo =
Tyres and wheel refurb = £600 - it could wait a little but the tyres will need doing as a minimum

Anyone got any insight into these costs? It feels like I'm going to be throwing a few k at this, trying to figure out what to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Carolyn]

No point guessing.

First get the engine out and find out what broke.  It might only be a destroyed clutch!!

The engine is coming out anyway. That, or you're scrapping the car.

When you know what you're faced with, then you can make decisions. 

[shnazzle]

No point guessing.

First get the engine out and find out what broke.  It might only be a destroyed clutch!!

The engine is coming out anyway. That, or you're scrapping the car.

When you know what you're faced with, then you can make decisions.

The initial bangs sound like overboost protection kicking in. If it's an SP200/240,it will have it mapped into that dreadful Dastek. Ask me how I know.....
It's a very violent explosion, basically the unignited fuel exploding violently in the turbo/exhaust to save the block, followed by a severe drop in power and sometimes a very sharp (and dangerous) deceleration.

Unfortunately... It doesn't always catch it all so if it over boosted a couple of times changes are there is indeed a snapped or bent rod in there.

Pull it apart and go from there. You really won't know until it's out. And trying stuff and running it could make it all much worse

[Smcknighty]

Makes sense, it could well have been overboost protection. The first time it definitely slipped the clutch, second time not so sure.

I'm likely not going to scrap it, the fun for £ it offers is too good and it normally doesn't cost me that much. At the moment I'm thinking outsource the work, the only thing stopping me is the unknown of how much it will cost. If I do it I want to do it right rather than do it twice. Saying that, I have the tools... I'm away for work next week... maybe when I get back I will change my mind and just get stuck in, might be fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smcknighty]

https://midshiprunabout.org/mk3/transmission-removal/5/

This doesn't look too hard, maybe a weekends work, then I can tell if the clutch disintegrated and that's what's making the horrible noises. Grrr, I'm getting tempted to diy it now, what's the worst that can happen (a lot probably)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jonbill]

https://midshiprunabout.org/mk3/transmission-removal/5/

This doesn't look too hard, maybe a weekends work, then I can tell if the clutch disintegrated and that's what's making the horrible noises. Grrr, I'm getting tempted to diy it now, what's the worst that can happen (a lot probably)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think once it's out, even if you do find the clutch disintegrated you'll want to open the engine to be sure and also check the gearbox.
Would be annoying to put it all back together with a new clutch to discover the engine and gearbox also dead.

[Carolyn]

https://midshiprunabout.org/mk3/transmission-removal/5/

This doesn't look too hard, maybe a weekends work, then I can tell if the clutch disintegrated and that's what's making the horrible noises. Grrr, I'm getting tempted to diy it now, what's the worst that can happen (a lot probably)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think once it's out, even if you do find the clutch disintegrated you'll want to open the engine to be sure and also check the gearbox.
Would be annoying to put it all back together with a new clutch to discover the engine and gearbox also dead.

Jonbill is, I think, suggesting that you drop the engine and gearbox as one lump and then investigate.  It's about the same amount of work as just dropping the gearbox. 

It's a good suggestion. :-)

[Smcknighty]

Makes sense, although a bit harder to explain to my conscience and the wife as me 'not doing any major work on the car honest'

In terms of my experience with this, I've pulled the engine from my vw van multiple times, I've done the head gasket, oil seals, clutch, pretty much all the ancillaries. I've never yet done pistons, bearings etc. There's going to be a learning curve here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Carolyn]

Sounds to me that the job is well within your capabilities.

Take your time and you'll enjoy the process, I'm sure.

[jonbill]

https://midshiprunabout.org/mk3/transmission-removal/5/

This doesn't look too hard, maybe a weekends work, then I can tell if the clutch disintegrated and that's what's making the horrible noises. Grrr, I'm getting tempted to diy it now, what's the worst that can happen (a lot probably)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think once it's out, even if you do find the clutch disintegrated you'll want to open the engine to be sure and also check the gearbox.
Would be annoying to put it all back together with a new clutch to discover the engine and gearbox also dead.

Jonbill is, I think, suggesting that you drop the engine and gearbox as one lump and then investigate.  It's about the same amount of work as just dropping the gearbox. 

It's a good suggestion. :-)

Exactly. Only one more mount [emoji16]

[Superluminal]

If things are really bad....

I'm about to pull a decent non-oil burning engine so I can swap in an 2zz. I'll post it in the for sale section to gauge interest. It could get you going again whilst you do a proper hi-spec rebuild on your engine.

[Smcknighty]

Maybe on the engine finally found time to start pulling the old engine, made progress until the rain came. Hopefully will get further tomorrow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smcknighty]

Worlds slowest engine rebuild continues...

Work, life,weather and rusted bolts got in the way for a long while.

Today I got the manifold and the turbo off. In doing so, two studs in the engine snapped and two studs on the waste gate. I've also pulled the majority of fittings apart in prep to drop the engine and drained engine oil plus coolant.

Before I drop it out I've got to: drain the gearbox oil, loose the ancillary belt. Anything else standout I need to do? I've read two different ways to proceed, one was to split the drive shaft from the hub, one was to split the hubs from the rest of the suspension, any thoughts on the easiest way to go? I'm feeling drive shaft as I can then drop the car on it's wheels if I need to whilst it waits for me to pull my finger out and rebuild the engine. Any ideas what the size of the splined bolt is that I need to get undone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jonbill]

You can also split the CVs which is my new favourite way. Although putting new bands on is less fun

[shnazzle]

You can also split the CVs which is my new favourite way. Although putting new bands on is less fun

How do you do that?

[Carolyn]

You can also split the CVs which is my new favourite way. Although putting new bands on is less fun

Youv'e only got to split the nearside one! But you know that already.

The off side just pulls out of the gearbox.

[Dev]

You can also split the CVs which is my new favourite way. Although putting new bands on is less fun

Thats a nice way of doing it.  When I removed my transmission I removed the entire hub from the control arms for the side that requires a slide hammer. I used a chair afterwards to support the hub when I reinstalled the transmission. 

The Toyota style boot clamps are much easier than the  other style that requires a special tool. 

[jonbill]

You can also split the CVs which is my new favourite way. Although putting new bands on is less fun

How do you do that?

You just undo the band at the fat end and pull the boot off. The CV knuckle just slides out of the socket.

[jonbill]

You can also split the CVs which is my new favourite way. Although putting new bands on is less fun

Thats a nice way of doing it.  When I removed my transmission I removed the entire hub from the control arms for the side that requires a slide hammer. I used a chair afterwards to support the hub when I reinstalled the transmission. 

The Toyota style boot clamps are much easier than the then other style that requires a special tool.

I've only undone the Toyota clamps and replaced with generic (using @carolyns tool) - how do you do new Toyota ones up?

[Dev]

You can also split the CVs which is my new favourite way. Although putting new bands on is less fun

Thats a nice way of doing it.  When I removed my transmission I removed the entire hub from the control arms for the side that requires a slide hammer. I used a chair afterwards to support the hub when I reinstalled the transmission. 

The Toyota style boot clamps are much easier than the then other style that requires a special tool.

I've only undone the Toyota clamps and replaced with generic (using @carolyns tool) - how do you do new Toyota ones up?

It's too easy. You just fold over a large tab and just lock it in place.  As you fold it over it takes up the slack and makes it tight. I wonder if they can be bought as a separate part as it came with my boot kit from Toyota.

[jonbill]

You can also split the CVs which is my new favourite way. Although putting new bands on is less fun

Thats a nice way of doing it.  When I removed my transmission I removed the entire hub from the control arms for the side that requires a slide hammer. I used a chair afterwards to support the hub when I reinstalled the transmission. 

The Toyota style boot clamps are much easier than the then other style that requires a special tool.

I've only undone the Toyota clamps and replaced with generic (using @carolyns tool) - how do you do new Toyota ones up?

It's too easy. You just fold over a large tab and just lock it in place.  As you fold it over it takes up the slack and makes it tight. I wonder if they can be bought as a separate part as it came with my boot kit from Toyota.

Thanks Dev

[Carolyn]

Opening up the boots has the added benefit of getting the old dirty creamy mess that used to be graphite grease out, and new grease in.

[Joesson]

I do wonder what the grease must be like in many 2's, mine was liquid as Carolyn describes and was oozing out from within and my 2 is under 70K.

[Dev]

I had to change a compromised inner passenger boot last year. I was able to do it on the car and not have to pull the axle, just had to undo the control arms for clearance.
  I believe what happens is the axle takes in a little water over the years and becomes a brown milk shake.  The Toyota boot kit comes with their own grease which is brown and thick in consistency. 

If you were to do remove the boot be prepared for a mess. I would have a old towel or rag to capture the grease and a plastic trash bag ready to throw the rag into. 

[Smcknighty]

So close to pulling the engine. My drive is a bit of a mess right now in terms of getting from the front to the garage, which would make things tricky in terms of working on it. Bearing in mind how long it's taken me to get this far I stopped and called Headcase. Hoping he will be able to get her back up and running for me for reasonable price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk