Alignment settings problem

[Nvy]

Hey guys,
Im experiencing a problem after having suspension overhaul. Ill try to summarize the things below.

Replaced suspension parts:
Every bush there is replaced with poly ones.
Fitted coilovers
Droplinks

And I have the following problem after having alignment:
When turning left or right there is a little big of resistance until certain point and then the wheel can turn itself w/o assistance until full lock. So imagine you are turning left and there is resistance till the middle of the travel and then after this point the resistance becomes assistance and the wheel can turn to the full lock by itself. From my experience with the Civic it can be due to the Toe but i have it setup like most of the guys on the spyderchat board. The problem with Civic was when i had coils i had -1 camber and 2mm toe and after that i went to standard coz i wanted to sell the car and with the 0 camber the car would do the same like the 2 and would have a bigger steering radius. After new alignment it was fine and would regain the turning radius and the resistance until certain point was gone.

Alignment settings:
-2.3 front Toe 0
-2.3 rear Toe 1mm

Any idea what could the problem be?

Thanks

[Alex Knight]

Sounds like castor. Was your castor in spec when you had your alignment done?

[Nvy]

Sounds like castor. Was your castor in spec when you had your alignment done?

No idea, they have only the angles on the sheet. I can make a picture of the sheet not sure if these are in English tho. About the castor we do not have a way to set it up right?

[tets]

just a bit of a curve ball here, but all of the new bits haven't highlighted a problem with the steering UJ have they? Mine was a bit like that when it started playing up.

If not, tell me to bugger off and mind my own business

[Nvy]

just a bit of a curve ball here, but all of the new bits haven't highlighted a problem with the steering UJ have they? Mine was a bit like that when it started playing up.

If not, tell me to bugger off and mind my own business

Mine was replaced 500 kms ago so its not it. Maybe castor/toe or just track rod ends, once i find out will update the thread

[james_ly]

If you unbolt the track rod end and turn the hub by hand, is it smooth? Could be stiff ball joint, or top mounts?
Or, if you get the front in the air first, is the steering smooth? Maybe the rack itself?

[Nvy]

If you unbolt the track rod end and turn the hub by hand, is it smooth? Could be stiff ball joint, or top mounts?
Or, if you get the front in the air first, is the steering smooth? Maybe the rack itself?

I cant have a look at the moment but in a month or two ill have some days off. Coilovers were fitted at the same time so its not top mounts. I can guess that the rack is fine and the steering will be fine with wheels in the air. Nothing knocks at the moment so idk about the track rod ends or its masked from the plastics rattles.

Any ideas if we need any toe in front?

[james_ly]

I don't have my geo to hand, but it's about 1 degree camber front and rear, 0.0x toe out front, 0.0x toe in rear.

[Beachbum957]

I don't have my geo to hand, but it's about 1 degree camber front and rear, 0.0x toe out front, 0.0x toe in rear.

That sounds a lot like severe tramlining. Our lowered MR2 had a similar effect with 0 toe from and rear and just over 1 deg negative camber front and 1.3 negative rear, just not very severe.  Adding a bit of toe in at front settled it down.  But if adding toe doesn't reduce the effect, it may be caster. The MR2 seem very sensitive to any setting, and if any of the poly bushings were not quite right, that could impact caster and add to the problem.  Some tires make the problem more noticeable.

I would suggest getting the alignment rechecked and determine if caster in in spec and add some toe in.

[james_ly]

I don't have my geo to hand, but it's about 1 degree camber front and rear, 0.0x toe out front, 0.0x toe in rear.

That sounds a lot like severe tramlining. Our lowered MR2 had a similar effect with 0 toe from and rear and just over 1 deg negative camber front and 1.3 negative rear, just not very severe.  Adding a bit of toe in at front settled it down.  But if adding toe doesn't reduce the effect, it may be caster. The MR2 seem very sensitive to any setting, and if any of the poly bushings were not quite right, that could impact caster and add to the problem.  Some tires make the problem more noticeable.

I would suggest getting the alignment rechecked and determine if caster in in spec and add some toe in.

Good spot! Just checked my geo print out, and it's 0:0x toe in front, and 0.1x toe in rear.

[Nvy]

I have no idea whats the measurement when saying 0.xx mine are:
Front
Left toe +0.3mm right +0.2mm
Left camber -2.13 right -2.12

Rear
Left toe +2.1mm right +2.3mm
Left camber -2.14 right -2.14

So do you think its okay? I dont think so

Factory settings are saying +0.5mm toe in both front wheels tho. I think i need less camber rear and less toe front.

[james_ly]

I have no idea whats the measurement when saying 0.xx mine are:
Front
Left toe +0.3mm right +0.2mm
Left camber -2.13 right -2.12

Rear
Left toe +2.1mm right +2.3mm
Left camber -2.14 right -2.14

So do you think its okay? I dont think so

Factory settings are saying +0.5mm toe in both front wheels tho. I think i need less camber rear and less toe front.

So most alignment machines measure in degrees and minutes (60 minutes to 1 degree). Here is a site to convert to mm and back:

http://www.trackace.co.uk/Manual/Conversion%20Chart.pdf

[Beachbum957]

I have no idea whats the measurement when saying 0.xx mine are:
Front
Left toe +0.3mm right +0.2mm
Left camber -2.13 right -2.12

Rear
Left toe +2.1mm right +2.3mm
Left camber -2.14 right -2.14

So do you think its okay? I dont think so

Factory settings are saying +0.5mm toe in both front wheels tho. I think i need less camber rear and less toe front.

I tried that much negative camber in the front on the street and the car was very darty.  I would suggest closer to -1 to -1.2 front, and -1.3 to -1.5 rear.  However, if the coilovers lowered the car quite a bit, that may be the least amount of camber they could get without camber bolts.

Plus toe usually indicates toe in.  The Toyota manual  indicates total toe in at 1.5mm +/- 2mm front and 3mm +/-  2 mm rear, so the toe should be in spec, as your numbers are showing .5mm total toe in front and 4.4 mm total toe in rear.  If anything, you could use a little less front camber and a bit less rear toe in.

I don''t think the problem is camber or toe.  What you need is the caster they measured as that could be effected by the poly bushings install.  The manual states 3.13 degree +/- .75 deg