Cone air filter

[Mr2paul]

Hi everyone, iv fitted a cone filter to the car same as iv done with other cars. It's now situated near a side vent which seems to make sense to me as it's going to get cooler air than at the rear, tho I'll stand corrected on this. I did do a search but found no answers unlike the f2e forum but just need to no a few basics.
Better sound to me anyway but previous cars seemed to get better throttle responses?
I did actually agree with them that I got slightly better mpg ( tho not a concideration as too tempted to press the loud pedal more )
I used the old maf and housing after a clean with some flexi pipe and married it all up to the throttle body with some rubber strips superglued to any pipe work to make the differences up and improve the fit ( I hate seeing clips squeeze a pipe to death ). I no its not ideal to have air expanding slightly from the maf and then reduced for the throttle body but I don't expect any gains as the sound is enough and it's what I had to hand. I fabbed a bracket out of stainless bar to keep it sturdy mounted to a battery tray bolt, and iv had no issues. A car I looked at, the owner said he tried a different filter and a light came on, so I didn't buy that !
Any thoughts / advise / etc is welcome.

[1979scotte]

IMHO fitting after market air filters to stock engines is a waste of time on almost any car.
All it gets you is more noise.

The stock paper filter is fitted to the 2zz which makes 189bhp factory fresh so flows plenty for our 138bhp 1zz.

You where already getting cool air from the stock air box as it gets its feed from the same place if you trace the pipe all the way back.

MCM did various mods on an s2000 on a dyno and the super dooper after market induction kit actually lost it power if memory serves me correct.

I've done markiii pipe with KN filter before and currently have a 1zz with hurricane induction kit makes a nice sound but thats about it IMHO.

Glad you're happy with the sound.
Do you have an exhaust to match?

[AdamR28]

I agree with Scotte but throttle response is another consideration for me. A huge long intake tract like on our standard cars leaves a fair bit of 'lag' as there is a much larger volume (and weight) of air to stop and accelerate every time the throttle is rolled off / on.

I'm currently on the standard airbox and elbow, but without the huge long tube that goes into the wing - seems a reasonable compromise.

[1979scotte]

I agree with Scotte but throttle response is another consideration for me. A huge long intake tract like on our standard cars leaves a fair bit of 'lag' as there is a much larger volume (and weight) of air to stop and accelerate every time the throttle is rolled off / on.

I'm currently on the standard airbox and elbow, but without the huge long tube that goes into the wing - seems a reasonable compromise.

The huge long tube does give nice cool air.

I would like to go back to stock air box tbh it being a tf.

[shnazzle]

I agree with Scotte but throttle response is another consideration for me. A huge long intake tract like on our standard cars leaves a fair bit of 'lag' as there is a much larger volume (and weight) of air to stop and accelerate every time the throttle is rolled off / on.

I'm currently on the standard airbox and elbow, but without the huge long tube that goes into the wing - seems a reasonable compromise.

It's not quite that simple unfortunately.

Going back to what Scotte said, which is very important; have you changed your exhaust to match?

I've been through the mill on intakes and I'm now running stock system with a markiii pipe and a high-flow panel filter.
The stock system is just good. All the noise I'd ever want (and more... Too much sometimes) is coming out my end pipes

I can tell you for 100% I have not lost throttle response going from a fancy expensive Hurricane setup to stock, because where the difference really lies is exhaust and correct fueling.
All the throttle response you'll ever want is in the manifold, sports cat and backbox. Then the markiii pipe or TRD velocity stack do make a bit more difference.

[AdamR28]

It's not quite that simple unfortunately.

Interested to know why! Thanks in advance.

[shnazzle]

It's not quite that simple unfortunately.

Interested to know why! Thanks in advance.

It's a fine balance between the intake plenum size and design, the intake length and box. Big massive gaping intakes are great for high rpm horsepower number chasing but impact low-down torque negatively.

Longer intake tracts speed up airflow and give better low down, but cause restriction higher up.
The plenum and intake pipe design helps in "storing" air so that it is available the second you open the throttle.
You'd think that's the case with a short open cone filter, but the inverse is true. There is no "store". It has little to no air in the immediate intake tract so it has to suck it through the restrictive filter from the get-go.

This effect is immensely visible on independent throttle bodies. The length of the velocity stack per cylinder even down to the centimeter makes a big noticeable difference in power output.

[Carolyn]

Airbox design is a black art that many millions of squids are spent on by vehicle manufacturers.  They are very hard to improve upon.

That big lump in front of a Moto GP rider is not the fuel tank (as most of you probably know!), it's the airbox cover.  The fuel tank is much lower down in order to lower the centre of gravity.

Take the airbox off a modern bike and the thing won't run at all.

The airbox on your little car is just bloody perfect for the job it does.  You won't improve upon it.

If you're after intake noise - fair enough. (I don't 'get' it, but - fair enough). I'm old enough to remember putting a bit of plastic on my bicycle to interfere with the spokes and make 'engine noises'.

I did it.  I loved it.  My bike didn't go any better, though!     

[Petrus]

I agree with Scotte but throttle response is another consideration for me. A huge long intake tract like on our standard cars leaves a fair bit of 'lag' as there is a much larger volume (and weight) of air to stop and accelerate every time the throttle is rolled off / on.

I'm currently on the standard airbox and elbow, but without the huge long tube that goes into the wing - seems a reasonable compromise.

Have a look at what I did Adam. I deleted the tube in the rear wing, fitted a larger diameter, funnel shaped elbow and added a bell mount entry.
Also the smaller battery aids air flow; both into the wing space and through the engine bay.

[Mr2paul]

Ah . Some negatives there unlike the other forum, which is fine.
So basically saying you can't improve without other things ?

[shnazzle]

Ah . Some negatives there unlike the other forum, which is fine.
So basically saying you can't improve without other things ?

If there was a quick fix for a performance gain, we'd all have it


But, I also fell for the intake noise trap. It is lovely. There's nothing quite like the hiss of the Hurricane when you stab the throttle and the violent roar behind you. But it does get tedious. 
But it can do this... 
https://youtu.be/eodJA8giZc0

[1979scotte]

Ah . Some negatives there unlike the other forum, which is fine.
So basically saying you can't improve without other things ?

We consider ourselves more sensible than other forums.
Open minded to.
We even have female members 🤯

[Petrus]

Ah . Some negatives there unlike the other forum, which is fine.
So basically saying you can't improve without other things ?

We consider ourselves more sensible than other forums.
Open minded to.
We even have female members 🤯

By now there are enough dyno readings to identify the gains or not.
Basically the only two intake mods which have power gains without being outweighed by a higher cost sómewhere are Cap Weir´s MAF mod and a less restrictive elbow.

[SV-3]

Ah . Some negatives there unlike the other forum, which is fine.
So basically saying you can't improve without other things ?

We consider ourselves more sensible than other forums.
Open minded to.
We even have female members 🤯

By now there are enough dyno readings to identify the gains or not.
Basically the only two intake mods which have power gains without being outweighed by a higher cost sómewhere are Cap Weir´s MAF mod and a less restrictive elbow.

We don't do 'before and after' readings and 'no two dyno's are the same', remember  

[Petrus]

By now there are enough dyno readings

We don't do 'before and after' readings and 'no two dyno's are the same', remember  

Hence ´enough´ so a trend can be identified and a sensible conclusion drawn.
But yes, hard, direct proof would be a before and after.

[Dev]

 Most of these aftermarket intakes actually hurt performance because they skew the MAF readings to under report. 
 Fortunately its not enough to notice because these gains or losses are minimal.
 
  However there are  some overlooked positive advantage with a good air intake system for this car and that is you can free up some weight and complexity by removing the entire system and replacing  it with a shorter tube with filter from the throttle body to the area of the side vent. Apart from the sound this can be a good part of a weight reduction strategy.
  If you combine that with a header, performance downpipe and lightweight exhaust you have just made a major reduction in weight from the rear end where it counts and can free up power particularly the less restrictive exhaust. All positives.   

[Petrus]

Did the exhaust manifold, downpipe, lightweight muffler. It frees up horses, reduces weight regardless of OEM airbox or cone filter.

Because of the miniature battery I fitted I do have the space to route the intake to the side entry.
Did not see enough advantage of the minor weight loss from chucking the filter box in the light of the resulting potential MAF issues and at best no power lost.

Díd chuck the wheelwell duct and the downside of that is that the side entry passes cleaner air. If you do dusty roads, I would advise against it.

[scm2004red]

https://youtu.be/GS69owXpGdY

[1979scotte]

https://youtu.be/GS69owXpGdY

Do enjoy his videos.

I can't say that I think 2-3% is worthwhile buying the KN you don't feel it. For me its a good advert for a nice clean filter.

Also keeping the KN clean and oiled is a pain.
Can upset the maf if you use too much oil.

And again its not a 1zz and we use the same filter as the 2zz which needs way more air.

[scm2004red]

I always distrust opinions based upon an individuals seat of the pants dyno, and music of the air intake, and this does give a reasonably competent scientific comparison! Mind you there is another vid somewhere(which I can't find) which demonstrates just as well that aftermarket filters are a waste of money!!

I figure Mr T didn't waste millions of yen developing something that was inefficient, it is obviously likely to be a compromise after considering the average customer usage, and someone who spends all his time with WOT on the track can probably gain a bit with a change.

[Mr2paul]

Thanks for the replies and they were just as I suspected. More noise n that's your lot ! I'm fine with that, only do 5miles to work with lots of junctions so happily I don't get the motorway drown.
Not sure on the mr T is perfect bit though as back in my f2e days there were easy mods to do that did actually improve the car, such as throttle body, intake , clutch cylinder de restrict , but maybe mr Hyundai was having an off day ?

[Mr2paul]

I'd just like to add that although after market filters are useless as such, someone is making an awful lot of money making them !  Makes you wonder.?
I need to invent a totally useless gadget that people will buy 🤔🤔🤔

[Petrus]

I'd just like to add that although after market filters are useless as such,

After market filter élements have their use.
You have the coice of less restriction, less effective filtering and more effective filtering and more restriction. The MAF will happily adjust the fuelling.

[Dev]

https://youtu.be/GS69owXpGdY

Also keeping the KN clean and oiled is a pain.
Can upset the maf if you use too much oil.

And again its not a 1zz and we use the same filter as the 2zz which needs way more air.

  There is a better option than the gauze oil air filters which are a bad idea because they let in far more dirt and ruin the MAF sensor by insulating the hot wires with dirt and oil which acts like an insulator skewing the MAF reading. 

 I use what is known as a dry filter which uses pleated  cellulose material in its construction. These filers do not use any oil and have a very high efficiency rating for trapping dirt. The downside is they do not last very long and most need to be replaced but it still lasts much longer then a panel filter. Because of its size it is less restrictive than the panel paper filter also.  There is a mid cycle cleaning which requires the filter to be vacuumed from the outside and it is almost as good as new but will need replacement eventually. 

[1979scotte]

https://youtu.be/GS69owXpGdY

Also keeping the KN clean and oiled is a pain.
Can upset the maf if you use too much oil.

And again its not a 1zz and we use the same filter as the 2zz which needs way more air.

  There is a better option then the gauze oil air filters which are a bad idea because they let in far more dirt and ruin the MAF sensor by insulating the hot wires with dirt and oil which acts like an insulator skewing the MAF reading. 

 I use what is known as a dry filter which uses pleated  cellulose material in its construction. These filers do not use any oil and have a very high efficiency rating for trapping dirt. The downside is they do not last very long and most be replaced but it still lasts much longer then a panel filter. Because of its size it is less restrictive then the panel paper filter also.  There is a mid cycle cleaning which requires the filter to be vacuumed from the outside and it is almost as good as new but will need replacement eventually but that is still a very long time. 

Good old paper.