Running Rich and idle problems

M.Dub · October 21, 2021, 16:18

I'd say it was just about warm, I'd had it ticking over for 10mins but only tested it 20mins later.

Still getting the misfire codes tho albeit intermittent. I'm thinking it's possibly the fuel pressure dropping slightly when the engine is shut off or idling or that the replacement injectors I put in arnt quite right. Think Iv checked or changed everything I can now.

Car drives fine but I ideally want everything perfect before I take it to a track.

jonbill · October 21, 2021, 20:25

just for completeness, what are the fault codes your getting?

M.Dub · October 21, 2021, 20:36

P300
P301
P302
P303 (less often)
P304 (less often)

They pend for a few drives then confirm, mainly p301,p302

Iv took it out earlier and had no codes at all not even pending.

It's intermittent,

Thanks

jonbill · October 22, 2021, 09:39

Interesting that its 1 and 2. not on same o2 sensor.
I'd try swapping injector 1&3 and then coil pack 1&3 to see if the misfire follows.

M.Dub · October 22, 2021, 09:59

I'm also getting a intermittent P420
But I'm assuming this has something to do with having fitted a sports Cat?

Iv also read that the misfire could falsely raise this so not wanting to mess with anything else until I get rid of the misfire.

I'm thinking it's the injectors as Iv already changed the coil packs and it changed nothing.

M.Dub · October 22, 2021, 10:01

Screen shot

jonbill · October 22, 2021, 14:38

fair enough, so swap injectors 1&3 and see if the misfire follows.

M.Dub · October 28, 2021, 15:08

So, Iv swapped all the injectors round sat the car at idle for 10mins and sure enough misfires logged 1,2,3!

So just to recap Iv done the below.

Changed plugs
Changed coil packs
Changed injectors
Done compression (circa 165-170 psi on all 4)
Changed all 3 lambda
Changed MAF
Fitted new exhaust system and sports cat
Change fuel pump etc
Checked for vacuum leaks (cant find any)

I honestly don't know what else to do other than give up and accept it's just part of this car, feeling defeated now.

Carolyn · October 28, 2021, 15:17

165-170 is a bit down. Might be worth a leak-down test on a warm engine.

Or you could check your valve clearances. Valves not sealing well is well down on the list, but you ARE well down on the list!

Tight valves will show up when warm...

M.Dub · October 28, 2021, 16:03

I still think it's injectors. I took them out and re installed a cheaper set just to see if I got lucky, I didn't! The car started running rich all over again so I binned those and re installed my old ones.

Now Iv installed them in a different order the most common misfire has move to cylinder 1 and 3 when previously it was 1 and 2? I'm thinking I have another poor set of Injectors, they don't run the car rich but maybe they are bad in some other way?

Does anybody know where to get a decent set? I can't keep buying sets and hoping they work properly.

jonbill · October 28, 2021, 16:08

you could buy a cheap ebay injector tester and rig up something to check their flow volumes, between those two sets your bound to have a 4 good ones.
there are youtube videos of people doing this.
or you can send them off to be reconditioned (not cheap)

M.Dub · October 28, 2021, 16:41

I was thinking the same with having 4 good ones between the 8 I have but seems 4 of of them run the car super rich, 2 of them work ok and the other 2 cause misfires. I never imagined it would be so difficult to find such a common part for this engine.

Iv enquired with breakers on eBay and everytime I get told they've already sold the originals.

Carolyn · October 28, 2021, 16:51

You can buy new ones. I think MAG engines still sell reconditioned calibrated ones also. I bought yellow 2ZZ injectors from them and they were fine. If you keep installing used unproven kit, you'll be chasing ghosts!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192561585668?hash=item2cd5909e04:g:HQ4AAOSwA3dYMDdE

M.Dub · October 28, 2021, 17:13

Thank you,

Will get a set of these and hopefully that's the ends of it lol

Appreciate your help

M.Dub · October 28, 2021, 17:45

Thought recognised this seller, I have some receipts from the previous owner for some of the rebuild parts.

Carolyn · October 28, 2021, 18:03

Quote from: M.Dub on October 28, 2021, 17:45Thought recognised this seller, I have some receipts from the previous owner for some of the rebuild parts.

They're in Dubai. I've dealt with them a few times. Very reliable.

M.Dub · November 3, 2021, 16:06

So I got the new injectors installed went to start the car and nothing! Car wouldn't start, didn't even try. The injectors aren't opening at all. Just to check I reinstalled my old ones and car started fine.

Any ideas?

This pic is one of the new ones from MAG.

Carolyn · November 3, 2021, 18:32

That's strange. I'll look at my spares tomorrow.

jonbill · November 3, 2021, 20:31

how did you confirm the injectors aren't opening at all? stethoscope?

shnazzle · November 3, 2021, 20:38

Compared them to a set of known good injectors I've got. Everything looks the same

M.Dub · November 3, 2021, 20:51

I'm totally confused to be honest.

I didn't use a stethoscope or anything like that. The engine turned over fine just didn't even try to start just as if there was no fuel at all.

I put my old ones back in and it fired up first time so I can only assume they did not open, maybe I'm wrong I'm no expert lol.

If I plug them in loose and turn the ignition can I check them that way?

Carolyn · November 3, 2021, 21:24

Quote from: M.Dub on November 3, 2021, 20:51I'm totally confused to be honest.

I didn't use a stethoscope or anything like that. The engine turned over fine just didn't even try to start just as if there was no fuel at all.

I put my old ones back in and it fired up first time so I can only assume they did not open, maybe I'm wrong I'm no expert lol.

If I plug them in loose and turn the ignition can I check them that way?

The fuel rail will just spit them out. Petrol everywhere.

M.Dub · November 3, 2021, 21:49

Sorry I meant I'd leave current injectors installed (bolted into rail etc) and just unplug the power. I'd then plug the new ones onto the power sockets and have someone turn the engine over. Maybe then I could listen to see if they open and close?

Not that you should really have to do all this when you've just bought them. Feel like I'm cursed with this car

jonbill · November 3, 2021, 22:06

I think its really unlikely that 4 new injectors from a reputable seller just don't work at all, none of them.
so I wonder if maybe they need longer cranking to fill with fuel etc before the engine fires. how long did you crank for?

M.Dub · November 4, 2021, 07:58

Tried so many times the battery was almost flat. When I removed them there was fuel pressure in the rail.

I know thought the same, I don't understand why these don't work but my old ones do. It can only point to the new injectors being the problem.

I know you're all probably sick of this thread now